Theft at Gencon 2011

[Royal Ass.]

Unless I missed where it's posted, I feel like there should already be a thread on this. There is a lot of discussion about this over at the Mana Drain.

I'll get it started: Collector's Cashe (my local game store) is offering a $5,000.00 reward for a set of Beta power stolen out of a display case - http://www.collectorscache.com/Defau...d=9&tabindex=0

Collector's Cache is a small business that has supported MTG since the beginning and this kind of theft really hurts them and ultimately the community.

There were many other serious thefts including David Williams Type 1 deck stolen valued around 20K. (I believe he is also offering a 5K reward).

I think we have a serious problem with theft in this community. Probably a few bad apples but something that needs to be discussed and addressed.

[troopatroop]

Leaving a box worth 20k in plain sight is being very unaware. That is all.

[lordofthepit]

Leaving a box worth 20k in plain sight is being very unaware. That is all.

There were allegedly several groups of (professional?) thieves at Gencon: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=345582

I know to be extremely vigilant about my belongings when I'm at a big event, but to blame this on the victim without knowing what happens is very ignorant.

[nedleeds]

When they start following me back to my hotel room ... that's when it's professional. Leaving beta power out in an unlatched case is a big mistake at Gencon. On Saturday and Sunday it's shoulder to shoulder in the dealer hall, trying to see an arm pop up and grab something is nearly impossible. The ones that blow my mind are the dealers who literally have a cashier and maybe one other dude covering their booth. I can't believe they don't get robbed blind.

[menace13]

This is what happens when people are careless, but it isn't always the victim's fault. This is what thieves do. They prey on unsuspecting people. I would like to hear from the victims side of things to see how they could(if any way) have prevented it. There was a story of a player turning around for a second to get dice out their bag and having their deck stolen right off the table.

It's a real shame when a gaming convention is a payday for a bunch of scumbags without good paying jobs(I'm just guessing here, they could be making good pay and just have really low morals).

Edit: I just read this over on Sally;
"Even then, look at what happened in SCG Baltimore. Some guy was in the bathroom, the thief came from behind and smashed his head into the urinal, took his stuff, then fled. The victim pulled his pants up and pursued the guy, and I think he was caught. Even with closed off areas, you're not safe."

Has It has gotten to that point where one has to carry just to play mtg?

[sclabman]

Has It has gotten to that point where one has to carry just to play mtg?

I've been doing this for years. It really helped my match win percentage.

[dakkon]

Rich Shay, David Williams, and the other victims aren't stupid. It's not like they left their shit unattended. It is impossible to be 100% aware of your belongings at all times, especially during a match. Security at Gencon was ass. Furthermore, crowds of people can hover around as you're playing. All it takes is a small distraction (which isn't difficult if the thieves work in groups) and they're off with your stuff.

A friend of mine had his backpack stolen while he was standing on the strap. He was concentrated on the game, got bumped, and someone must have jimmied out the bag and sent it across the table.

They need to keep the tables and walkways clear at all times during tournaments. Pastimes could have done a much better job once there were multiple reports of theft. If you're done with your match, get the fuck out. They enforce this for most GPs I don't see why they don't do something like this for Gencon. Less groups of people nucleating around you = less chances of thieves hiding next to you and taking your stuff.

As a last resort, anyone know of good remote activated alarm units? I've seen keyfinders or kid trackers. I'm not sure how well they work but I'm thinking about testing one. When your backpack is taken, you usually notice pretty quick. If you can activate the alarm by remote and track your way back to your stuff...you can imagine the rest.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

When they start following me back to my hotel room ... that's when it's professional. Leaving beta power out in an unlatched case is a big mistake at Gencon. On Saturday and Sunday it's shoulder to shoulder in the dealer hall, trying to see an arm pop up and grab something is nearly impossible. The ones that blow my mind are the dealers who literally have a cashier and maybe one other dude covering their booth. I can't believe they don't get robbed blind.

Leaving a box worth 20k in plain sight is being very unaware. That is all.

This selfish indifference from so many players is why theft goes unchecked at tournaments. This is a problem that can happen to anyone, but until it happens to them, childish assholes are just going to continue to victim-blame.

If everyone recognized how common and serious this level of theft was, and kept their eyes open not just for themselves, but in general at tournaments, there would be fewer card thieves around.

And it actually HAS gotten professional. At the Open in Baltimore there was a guy who just grabbed a binder in the middle of a trade, ran, threatened to shoot someone who made a move, and had a getaway driver parked ride outside the center.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah thieves are getting worse.

#1- It's obvious the time has come to not allow spectators on Vintage and possibly Legacy matches. Every Vintage event I've been to in the past 5 years at least one person has had a Vintage deck, fully powered stolen off the table directly in front of them when they turned around for 2 seconds. Some guy also had his entire Legacy deck stolen in the middle of the Champs while he was sideboarding.

#2- When there is probably a $500K worth of product out on tables there should be security cameras, end of story. GenCon needs security cameras on dealer hall and Vintage/Legacy tables.

#3- Events are fucking slacking off on security so it's time for the players to take matters into their own hands. With 3-4 nanny cams you could cover both entrances to an event and at least 5 rows of tables each. With a backpack and a couple boxes of commons you could set a trap. The event holders seem to have this, "It's not our stuff, so keep a careful eye on your own stuff and it's your own fault if it gets stolen" attitude. That's all fine, except that now keeping a careful eye on your stuff is not good enough. Now adays thefts happen in a matter of seconds. I heard about one guy who was walking by the Vintage matches on the edge tables and when both players were attending to life totals he walked by and scooped the top 10 or so cards off one of the libraries and walked off into the crowds. That kind of thing happens in under a second and is hard to detect even if you are looking directly at the deck when it happens.

[Leftconsin]

And it actually HAS gotten professional. At the Open in Baltimore there was a guy who just grabbed a binder in the middle of a trade, ran, threatened to shoot someone who made a move, and had a getaway driver parked ride outside the center.

Thats less of a concern at GenCon because Magic is played in such an out of the way back corner it is a 3 minute jog to the front door. Smaller venues absolutely need a local cop or similar at the door at all times now.

We really were having a lot of stuff stolen off tables in front of their owners. I know from experience doing deck checks that players have tunnel vision. You are talking to your opponent, thinking about sideboarding, working out what is the best line of play, and so on. Unless you are physically attached to your stuff it will be gone in a crowd. I was on staff and I didn't even bring my backpack; even though I was able to put it behind the sides stage.

The only thing I brought into the hall was the deck I was loaning out that day (to a guy I've known for 5 years) and the judge foils I was selling that day, which I kept in my badge around my neck at all times.

[Sims]

Has It has gotten to that point where one has to carry just to play mtg?

Depending on the legality in the state you're in, I'm sure people do. The issue is in most circumstances this isn't going to be legally possible, and it really won't help that much. Someone takes your stuff and you don't notice it, what are you going to do, wave a gun around and say "give me my shit back" ? You'll get arrested. Someone takes the stuff, you notice it right away, and you take off after them... you warn, threaten, then pull a gun.. they keep runing. What are you going to do, shoot them? They aren't threatening your life in any way if they're running from you, so you just committed a felony. Even if you fire into the air (dangerous as hell, btw)... you committed a felony to hope they shit themself and drop your cards.

There is the hope that people would know if you're packing they won't fuck with your shit, but under most states laws if people know you're packing or you aren't concealing, you're committing a felony.

Edit: On topic. Despite having sold almost all of my collection and really only having Dredge/Burn and my EDH decks, I take hawking over my cards very seriously. The cards don't leave my sight unless i'm leaving them with a trustworthy friend or store owner (behind the counter typically). As far as during tournament play, when i go to large scale events I bring 1 deck, 1 life pad, a few pens, and a small amount of dice or glass bead counters that i can keep in a shirt pocket. I don't turn away from the table for anything and try to always keep my cards in view. It helps to be a tourist and bring a damned fanny pack big enough to fit just your deck or a hoodie and keep it in the front pocket so you can keep your hands on it at all times. I simply don't trust people.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Actually open carry is usually much more legal than concealed carry. Of course that doesn't change the fact that carrying a handgun to protect your Magic cards is a dumb idea. I think it's going to take the police stepping in with stings to put an end to this type of bullshit. I mean if we can 99% guarantee that multiple people are going to be at an event trying to steal $100K worth of merchandise maybe we could talk the police into setting up undercover cops to catch thieves.

[menace13]

The gun comment was sarcasm. I used it to illustrate how bad the audacity of thieves has gotten. If someone follows you into a bathroom and smashes your face in a urinal in order to rob you of your belongings, or snatches your binder in midst of a trade and runs off threatening to shoot while having a wheel man waiting outside, then how worse can it actually become at this point?

Also am aware it is a felony in NYC to carry handguns. The point was if someone is going to steal shit right off you brazenly they also won't hesitate to hurt you for it.

Edit; Criminals prefer their victims unarmed.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah, I think it's time big events take a $1 collection from everyone who physically enters the event hall and uses that money to hire security.

[Sims]

Actually open carry is usually much more legal than concealed carry. Of course that doesn't change the fact that carrying a handgun to protect your Magic cards is a dumb idea. I think it's going to take the police stepping in with stings to put an end to this type of bullshit. I mean if we can 99% guarantee that multiple people are going to be at an event trying to steal $100K worth of merchandise maybe we could talk the police into setting up undercover cops to catch thieves.

I agree that it's a dumb idea and don't wish to really derail the thread, but the open/concealed carry is very dependant on state.

NY for example, all permits issued are carry/conceal. They've got restrictions on where you can bring the handgun but if you have it with you and it's not locked in a case it must be concealed or you're committing a felony. NYC it's a felony to own or posess a handgun (as i recall) outside of law enforcement.

So, it's up to the state and local laws. But whoever would do it to protect their cards needs their permit pulled.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Leaving a box worth 20k in plain sight is being very unaware. That is all.

And Hive Mind needs to be banned because it is ruining Legacy and completely unstoppable... Man you are just full of useful and intellectual comments, please continue to post your insights. We are all enlightened by your wisdom and thank you for not being a jackass and a complete retard, that is all.

[troopatroop]

This selfish indifference from so many players is why theft goes unchecked at tournaments. This is a problem that can happen to anyone, but until it happens to them, childish assholes are just going to continue to victim-blame.

If everyone recognized how common and serious this level of theft was, and kept their eyes open not just for themselves, but in general at tournaments, there would be fewer card thieves around.

And it actually HAS gotten professional. At the Open in Baltimore there was a guy who just grabbed a binder in the middle of a trade, ran, threatened to shoot someone who made a move, and had a getaway driver parked ride outside the center.

I grew up in Gamer's Guild Albany. You don't have to teach me about thieves, as that was the belly of the shark, and I've been taken advantage of. I also know what it's like to find a deck box and give it back, ask Alix and Jessie Hatfield about that. My point is, that this game is the only thing that could put 20k in a deckbox like that, and if you can't see (and always be aware of) the incredible danger that's in that luxury, then shit like this goes down. What's really dangerous is the complacency that soft, hyped up, and unaware mtg nerdboys show. If I bring a backpack to a tournament (which I don't anymore), I keep it wrapped around my chair, and snap check for it every 20 seconds. This was always a reality for me, so I'm not suprised. I'm not saying I don't sympathize, but you gotta handle your own shit. Magic cards are too easy to steal.

And Hive Mind needs to be banned because it is ruining Legacy and completely unstoppable... Man you are just full of useful and intellectual comments, please continue to post your insights. We are all enlightened by your wisdom and thank you for not being a jackass and a complete retard, that is all.

I think that Show and Tell should be banned. You really showed me, Holmes.

[Mr.C]

Back in Rio, there were organized groups of armed thieves that would rob binders at common trading spots. True story, and the reason I practically stopped trading in person there.

[nedleeds]

The best idea in this thread thus far is the clear aisle rule. For one it just helps clear things out, it keeps people from drooling on my BB duals, makes things cooler, and should help cut down on theft.

It's fun to spectate, but if this type of shit is to be prevented then this seems like the only way.

As far as the guys 'trading' on the side tables at Gencon, many were just dealers too cheap to get a booth or just quasi-dealers. If they get their stuff stolen frankly I don't care as much, they are breaking the rules by selling in the CCG hall anyway.

[betterthenandrew]

I used to have a chain (similar to a wallet chain) attached to my backpack at larger events. Im pretty bad at keeping track of my stuff, so it started as a way of making sure I didnt wander off with out my stuff, but it was also a way to make it a bit more diffuclt for someone else to walk off with my stuff. Security definately needs to be lifted, its not uncommon for people at eteranal events to be walking around with 10k in their bags, and most cards are impossible to identify if stolen. I suppose you could always start writing your names on the backs of your cards, but that's probably a bad idea.