Modern is official (this time for real!)

[lordofthepit]

Wise words.

I want to clarify that I was only bringing up TMD's history because I thought the irony entertaining. Whatever they did, right or wrong, won't really inform our decision about Modern.

The reason TMD has mostly died wasn't an unwillingness on their part to embrace new ideas; it was because the Vintage format was basically unsustainable in a competitive mainstream context for a few reasons: there simply weren't enough Vintage staples printed for it to be economically viable on the long term, there wasn't a huge amount of variation in decks, since they all share a core of the most broken cards available, and the format was stagnant because it's almost impossible for WoTC to print cards of a high enough power level to matter to Vintage deckbuilders.

Those factors combined to "kill" TMD. It's dead because Vintage is basically dead except to a few dedicated players. Legacy has a pretty high cost barrier to get into, but it's not anywhere near Vintage's level. It's got the widest variety of viable decks in any format in the game's history. It's got very strong cards, but WoTC keeps printing Legacy viable cards with every new set, which keeps things from getting stagnant.

I don't think The Source is in any danger of going out the way TMD did, because Legacy isn't going out the way Vintage did. A lot of Vintage players left Vintage to come to Legacy because it was the next best sustainable format. Legacy is extremely healthy, so its community doesn't need that alternative.

That doesn't mean we won't have a Modern forum. Just saying that TMD won't be the basis of our decision one way or the other. ;)

If there were a Modern forum, would it go under "Alternative Forum Development"? Or would there be a "Forum Development" section with DTB, Established, N&D, etc. subforums associated with just Modern? I don't mind Modern discussion, but I hope it doesn't compromise the Source's focus as my source for Legacy.

[Bardo]

If there were a Modern forum, would it go under "Alternative Forum Development"? Or would there be a "Forum Development" section with DTB, Established, N&D, etc. subforums associated with just Modern? I don't mind Modern discussion, but I hope it doesn't compromise the Source's focus as my source for Legacy.

Me too.

If MTS were to host Modern content, I assume we'd start with a single Modern forum and consider expanding and creating additional subforums if traffic / demand warranted we needed them

[Zilla]

Me too.

If MTS were to host Modern content, I assume we'd start with a single Modern forum and consider expanding and creating additional subforums if traffic / demand warranted we needed them

^This.

[Stinky-Dinkins]

Focus - Legacy.

[dahcmai]

Probably the best idea since the people seem to be fairly split on whether or not they like it. It's a non-rotating format so it will probably end up being fairly decent, but it's worth paying some attention to just so if it turns out to be the next greatest format after Legacy, we're not left playing catch up.

You never know, that ban list does open up some odd territory for brewing to be sure. It might be a lot of fun. Or it could just suck. Worth watching though.

[Bardo]

You never know, that ban list does open up some odd territory for brewing to be sure. It might be a lot of fun. Or it could just suck. Worth watching though.

Personally, the fact that there are no good duals, Force, or Brainstorm screams of total suckage to me.

[Final Fortune]

Stupid question, but do Tombstalker and Tarmogoyf not qualify for Modern with their Time Shifted card designs?

[Jonathan Alexander]

That and the banlist makes for an absolutely new format though. There are no direct ports from Legacy and you also can't just play the old Standard Caw-Blade. I'm quite interested to see the results from Pro Tour Philadelphia to be honest. I think aggressive green strategies are a good point to start, but that's pretty obvious.

The criterion is that the card can be found in "every booster release from Eighth Edition (for core sets) and Mirrodin (for expansion sets) forward" so you can play these cards as well as Akroma, Angel Of Wrath for example.

[264505]

I think if this forum has a sub-forum for CYOS and EDH, then modern certainly has a place. It probably will get played much more than CYOS because of the whole wizards support aspect and everything.

[sdematt]

@ final Fortune

Goyf and Stalker are from the Time Spiral block, so they're fine. Even Timeshifted cards, the ones with the purple set symbols, are legal. Ex. Lord of Atlantis is legal in Modern.


----------

The new format is very open. Consider the following:

-No Force to fuck up your plans.

-No combo to fuck over your terrible slow deck.

-No Wasteland in the first several turns (Tec Edge =/= Wasteland)

-No Brainstorm

-No Top

-Most decks from Legacy are now bad in Modern. Examples:

1.Fish? Fine, but can't capitalize off of Vial, cheap counters, etc.

2.Aggro Loam? No Mox Diamonds or Cycling Lands, seems very slow.

3. Goblins? Mostly all old frame cards. No dice.

4. Stoneblade doesn't exist without Jace/SFM.

5. No Stifle. At all (no Trickbind isn't Stifle).

6. No Show and Tell (and therefore no Hive Mind).

7. No random NO RUG, Bant, etc.

8. No Affinity, Thopters, Dark Depths, Mental Misstep, etc. DragonStorm seems like the only combo deck out there.

9. No Hymn, Swords, Wasteland, MM, etc. Several key cards from the banner are gone, and don't have excellent replacements.

-------------

To me, the format seems ripe for a ton of Aggro/midrange strategies involving Goyf, Confidant, Knight, Clique, and Hierarch. There will definitely be room for brewing.

-Matt

[Zilla]

6. No Show and Tell (and therefore no Hive Mind).

I wouldn't write it off so quickly. In a format without Misstep, Counterspell, Force, or Daze, you don't really need SnT to cheat Hive Mind into play; you can just hardcast it. Obviously it would be slower and less protected than it is now, but against a format that's almost entirely aggro that may not matter.

[GGoober]

Except that it would be hard for even a hard-casted combo deck like Hive Mind to beat aggro. If Hive Mind would be any bit dominant, a couple of angel's Grace in the SB drawn naturally on turn 6 will give the Hive Mind player tremendous headaches (not to mention facing a clock).

But I do agree that the counter-magic/control archetype is extremely weak without MM. Mana Leak is your best counterspell, not even Counterspell is legal (IIRC), and just mana Leak + Cryptics isn't going to be enough for a control deck to fight against the stronger zoo/junk decks etc.

[Final Fortune]

Well, considering Zoo didn't lose anything other than Chain Lightning, which can be replaced by Rift Bolt, I'd say it's close to being the defacto Legacy -> Modern crossover and Maverick is also a sure bet.

It's kind of a shame they didn't ban Tarmogoyf and Aether Vial, but oh well.

[Technics]

Screw Wizards "Combo Free" Format. I'm playing this!



// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [NPH] Forest (1)
4 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
10 [NPH] Island (1)
1 [NPH] Plains (1)

// Spells
4 [MR] Chromatic Sphere
4 [10E] Chromatic Star
4 [FD] Conjurer's Bauble
4 [FUT] Edge of Autumn
4 [SHM] Elsewhere Flask
3 [TSP] Lotus Bloom
2 [M10] Ponder
2 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb
4 [9E] Reclaim
4 [DS] Reshape
4 [MR] Second Sunrise
1 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
1 [MR] Sunbeam Spellbomb
3 [ARB] Wargate

[Philipp2293]

Maverick is also a sure bet.

Not so sure, Maverick loses Mum and Mystic (as well as StoP and Wasteland).

[RainbowPenguin]

I also think Maverick is unlikely to be a popular deck, simply because.. Well, what are you doing that other decks can't do, too? Without Mom and Mystic, and playing in a format without Wasteland (aka less strain on 3+ colour manabases), aren't you just playing Zoo without burn, Junk without Confidant or Bant without counters?


Edit: I see some people recommending 12-post, anyone got lists?

[Nihil Credo]

Head over to the forum main page for a surprise.