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Thread: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Emissary is good with Smallpox and loam, again if that were the approach. Attack for two, Smallpox, profit.

    Nice summary.
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  2. #42
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    The absolute best creatures for this deck are Kitchen Finks (at double green) and Geralf's Messenger (at triple black). That is where this concept falls short. Even with all the fixing in the world, we can't consistently make that happen. But I tried:

    I designed this deck as an aggro concept. Apply pressure, Smallpox, more pressure, etc. Here's the shell I made:

    4 Strangleroot Geist
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Viridian Shaman
    4 Kitchen Finks
    4 Geralf's Messenger

    4 Inquisition
    4 Smallpox
    8 Slots left

    24 land

    This was designed a while ago, so the extra slots are probably Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay
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  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirrislegend View Post
    The absolute best creatures for this deck are Kitchen Finks (at double green) and Geralf's Messenger (at triple black). That is where this concept falls short. Even with all the fixing in the world, we can't consistently make that happen. But I tried:

    I designed this deck as an aggro concept. Apply pressure, Smallpox, more pressure, etc. Here's the shell I made:

    4 Strangleroot Geist
    4 Bloodghast
    4 Viridian Shaman
    4 Kitchen Finks
    4 Geralf's Messenger

    4 Inquisition
    4 Smallpox
    8 Slots left

    24 land

    This was designed a while ago, so the extra slots are probably Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay
    You're trying to be too cute. Your deck is revolving around "things that are good with pox/deathcloud" instead of just "things that are good (with death cloud/pox)." Decks fail if they are built around a single card because you won't always draw that card and even if you do, it isn't always good. Make a deck that works with pox without using things that suck without it.

    Also, splashing red for Huntmasters is just amazing.

  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    How about some Vengevines in this deck? Or do we not have enough creatures?

  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    How about some Vengevines in this deck? Or do we not have enough creatures?
    Not enough creatures, and trying to use the ones that let you recast (gravecrawler) is going to water down the deck.

  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Hi all, I'm new to these forums and I see this thread hasn't had much activity lately. I'm planning on taking a Smallpox-type deck to my LGS this weekend with the list below.

    This deck is designed to be a control deck via discard. I'm not trying to rely on Smallpox to get the win (although that happens!). The primary win conditions are the Shrieking Affliction/The Rack combination along with some pecking by creatures. In testing, Vraska's -3 has been very useful mainboard while her assassins have pulled out a few wins for me too.

    23 Lands:
    2 Blinkmoth Nexus
    2 Forest
    4 Overgrown Tomb
    3 Swamp
    2 Tectonic Edge
    2 Twilight Mire
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Woodland Cemetery

    13 Creatures:
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Eternal Witness
    3 Hypnotic Specter

    18 Other Spells:
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Shrieking Affliction
    3 Smallpox
    1 The Rack
    3 Thoughtseize

    6 Planeswalkers:
    4 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Vraska the Unseen

    15 Sideboard:
    2 Damnation
    1 Extirpate
    3 Infest
    3 Maelstrom Pulse
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Torpor Orb

    Any thoughts/opinions/suggestions are welcome.

    Thanks.

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    I've been playing around with the idea of playing POX in Modern for a while.

    When I was designing the deck, Smi77y on twitter started playtesting his own list and helped me a bit streamlining possible match ups that would be an issue for the deck. Leyline of Sanctity games 2~3 seemed a bit too much for the deck to handle without a faster win condition. I was able to come up with the solution by adding in Hunted Horror. With Leyline in play, you literally get a 7/7 trampler for BB. Not too shabby.

    Main Deck:
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Liliana of the Veil

    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Darkblast
    3 Disfigure
    1 Duress
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Go for the Throat
    1 Infest
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Raven's Crime
    3 Shrieking Affliction
    4 Smallpox
    2 The Rack
    2 Thoughtseize

    2 Bojuka Bog
    4 Ghost Quarter
    4 Mutavault
    11 Swamp
    3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

    Sideboard:
    1 Damping Matrix
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    2 Hunted Horror
    1 Infest
    1 Mutilate
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    3 Surgical Extraction

  8. #48
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-28-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  9. #49

    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    The decks plan is to blow away the hand/board and win with Garruk's -1 right?

  10. #50
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Essentially, yes. Treetop beats usually show up in the mid-late game as well. The deck grinds well, really well. It's not a fast deck, at least not against control decks. Against aggro it settles things fairly quickly, and I haven't playtested against combo yet.

    EDIT: I edited my above list. Finks are in the sideboard now where they belong, and I have Mutilate in there (because I don't have Damnations.)

    If you're wondering if Garruk Wildspeaker is good enough, let me assure you: he's FANTASTIC. It's correct to play 4 of him, because he's one of the best threats, especially with Smallpox/Death Cloud in the mix. Tick him up for a big Cloud, then follow up with a 3/3 beast every turn. Think Lingering Souls but 3/3 beasts constantly annoying players rather than 1/1 flyers.

    The deck has trouble pre-board against B/W tokens. Post board brings in Crime//Punishment, Mutilate, and Surgical Extraction and then it becomes a much easier matchup. Smallpox and Death Cloud leave, they just don't do enough against tokens.

    I have also played against G/R Tron, and it seems about even. You need to rip Karn from their hand with Thoughtseize, and sideboard in Needles for him. Death Cloud is usually AMAZING against them if you can keep them off a turn 3 Karn. Wurmcoil Engine is a problem, the lifelink is just so brutal. It gets them right back into the game. We need an exile effect in the board for sure, but I don't know what that could be (Eradicate comes to mind.) Relic of Progenitus is good, but maindeck Decay's deal with it ok.

    Against Jund decks, Death Cloud is great but Smallpox is even better. Smallpox is amazing against anything with Deathrite Shamans in it. I board out my own Shamans for Needles and Extractions against Jund/Deathrite decks. Then just let Garruk do his thing and make a bunch of 3/3's.

    I played against American Control (I think it's a fringe deck) and it's winnable, but it takes a long time. Garruk again shines by letting you grind them out with big mana and lots of tokens. Sphinx's Revelation is a good card against us; Extraction out of the board and then grind them out.

    That's my testing so far. It feels like a really powerful deck, and I'm looking forward to bringing it to my next local tournament on Tuesday. Wish me luck!
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 06-28-2013 at 04:20 PM.
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  11. #51

    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Nope, I know Garruk is amazing and the 4-of shows how critical he is to the deck. He seems like the difference maker that lets you cloud for 4-5 and blow away the opposing player as opposed to clouding for a miniscule amount. The fact that he also sticks around to win the game is also pretty awesome.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Quote Originally Posted by kwis View Post
    Nope, I know Garruk is amazing and the 4-of shows how critical he is to the deck. He seems like the difference maker that lets you cloud for 4-5 and blow away the opposing player as opposed to clouding for a miniscule amount. The fact that he also sticks around to win the game is also pretty awesome.
    Bingo, the core synergy is Garruk + Death Cloud. I'm debating a 4th Death Cloud in the maindeck, but Smallpox is faster on the board and can often be a mini-cloud to play the disruption game, followed by Goyf/Stalker beats.
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  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Played against another Source member today on MWS (named 'Gepard' on MWS.) He cleaned my clock 2-0 with mono-green Good Stuff aggro. Ulvenwald Tracker is a beast!
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  14. #54

    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Mr.Safety, that was me yesterday, thanks for the games again.

    If the list from above is still the most recent one, I would to like to express some thoughts on it. First of all, what's really striking is the amount of 2- and 3-ofs you run. I'm of the opinion that this should be urgently avoided in this format since decks (especially nonblue) severly lack library manipulation. I think we are all too accustomed to legacy rock where you can just rely on Sensei's Divining Top and Dark Confidant to find your 2- and 3-ofs. Hence, I especially have to dissent with Death Cloud as a 3of because the card appears to be key in your deck. I think it would noticeably improve your matchup against a wide range of decks if you drew Death Cloud more often.

    Furthermore, your list somewhat seems to be a mixture of G/B Midrange and and G/B Deathcloud Control which means that I find your card choice contradictory to an extent. One the one hand, you run cheap creatures like Deathrite Shaman and Tarmogoyf, while on the other you include cards like Smallpox and said Death Cloud which barely play well with own creatures. Though the latter can serve as a wall at early stage of the game and as a finisher after cleansing the board, the initial seems completely out of place to be honest as it's awful in conjunction with Smallpox. Although I'm aware that it's certainly useful to take over the aggressive role with Shaman in some matchups, I'd still abstain from running it along with Smallpox.

    One a side note, I expect a lot of people playing Scavenging Ooze once it's legal (as I did yesterday), so I would contemplate how to adapt to it because right now your decks seems a bit dependent on the graveyard.

    Mind that I haven't tested Death cloud in modern extensively so I might be wrong. Also, don't mind that loss yesterday because my deck is actually some nonrelevant selfbrewn pile (at least until people realize how awesome Ulvenwald Tracker is in conjunction with Predator Ooze ;) )
    Last edited by Erdvermampfa; 07-02-2013 at 11:29 AM.

  15. #55
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    That is true, I tested your build today and I didn't feel very comfortable with it. Everytime I cast a smallpox I hurt my gameplan badly, and I felt I needed more ramping to cast faster and more efficient death clouds. I'm not even sure if smallpox belongs here, but shaman and goyf probably do not. Also a maindeck loam could be fine.

  16. #56
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Good thoughts, and I appreciate them greatly! I would love to hear some suggestions as to how to tweak the deck. I have heard a few suggestions on how to cut cards, but not a lot about what to REPLACE them with.

    Here is my current list that won't change until after tonight:

    4x Deathrite Shaman
    4x Sakura Tribe Elder
    3x Tarmogoyf
    2x Eternal Witness
    1x Tombstalker

    4x Smallpox
    4x Death Cloud
    3x Thoughtseize
    2x Inquisition of Kozilek
    3x Abrupt Decay
    4x Garruk Wildspeaker
    3x Liliana of the Veil

    4x Verdant Catacombs
    2x Misty Rainforest
    1x Marsh Flats
    1x Overgrown Tomb
    2x Golgari Rot Farm
    2x Woodland Cemetery
    3x Treetop Village
    1x Tectonic Edge
    6x Swamp
    2x Forest

    Sideboard
    2x Duress
    2x Pithing Needle
    2x Crime//Punishment
    2x Kitchen Finks
    2x Cranial Extraction
    4x Surgical Extraction
    1x Maelstrom Pulse


    A few notes on card choices (2-3 of's): I only have 3x Tarmogoyf, 3x Abrupt Decay, 3x Liliana, and 2x Kitchen Finks. I also only have 1x Overgrown Tomb at the moment. Nothing is beyond my reach, I just don't have them RIGHT NOW to make the deck optimal. I've been spending a lot of time (and money) on Legacy lately, but now this is a priority (after I see how badly I tank, lol)

    My first tournament is tonight (Tuesday, 7/2/13) so I won't be making any big changes for now. I've been practicing too much with the deck to change it now, it will just screw me up. I will be putting in Death Cloud #4 into the maindeck (as noted above), as I've been debating that myself. Beyond that, I think I have to leave it alone. I'll touch base after the event and let you know how I did.
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  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    Good luck! We're looking forward to hear from you!

  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    So I cleaned house going 3-0 (6-1 for games.) Tournament was 24 people, 3 rounds, no cut to top 8. Prizes were store credit, 8 packs of recent standard sets (RtR, GCR, or DGM) or I could opt for 2 packs of Modern Masters. I ended up with 1 MM pack and 4 packs of RtR (store credit, meh, I was hoping to crack a shockland with the RtR packs)

    Qualifying these results would be senseless though.

    Round 1 - Black/White Homebrew (I saw Phyrexian Obliterator and Vampire Nighthawk, that was it...)

    He never get off the ground. Game 1 he got two swamps, but only after I had assembled 5 lands and got Death Cloud for 2. The rest was Treetop beats and Deathrite drains (Deathrite post-Cloud, of course.) Game 2 he only saw one land the whole game (mana-screwed big time) which I gladly Smallpox-ed away and then got Garruk beasts and Tarmogoyfs. The whole round lasted maybe 15 minutes total.

    Round 2 - 5-Color uber-Budget artifact creatures (the deck look like it was leftovers from a MM draft)

    I was playing against a kid that was maybe 8-9 years old. He was actually a good player, but his deck was horrible. I didn't play cutthroat, but I swept him easily. His best card was a Court Homunculus enabled by an Iron Myr. This was like Michael Jordan playing in a midget basketball game.

    Round 3 - Mono-black discard/Infect (Howltooth Hollow, Runechanter's Pike, Phyrexian Vatmother, Phyrexian Crusader)

    Game 1 I just went all aggro. It was what I had in hand, and it worked well. I had lethal on the board with 2 Garruk beasts, Tarmogoyf, and Tombstalker on turn 5.

    Game 2 was really long. Even though I got his Crusader with liliana, and then extracted it, he ended up top-decking a Runechanter's Pike, equipping Inkmoth Nexus and swinging for 12 poison in one shot. He boarded in a full set of Nihil Spellbomb, but it hardly slowed me down at all. I just kept drawing non-Treetop lands and no threats. It was ok though, I ultimated Liliana twice in this game (yes, it was that long.) I finally landed Garruk and then Pike won.

    Game 3 he kept a one-lander, I was on the play, and I had Smallpox. Another fast game with Treetop beats and Liliana/Garruk teaming up for crushing board advantage.

    So like I said, the results are practically useless for any sort of guage of strength for Death Cloud. I was glad I had 4 copies of it in the deck, that was a great piece of advice. I am looking to do a couple of things to fix the deck a bit:

    1) Drop Inquisition of Kozilek, it was just 'meh' all night long. This is a place where I could start getting 4-ofs into the deck firstly, and then maybe start thinking about getting kitchen Finks maindeck.

    2) Strongly considering going -1 Swamp, +1 Godless Shrine so I can play Oblivion Ring in the sideboard against Wurmcoil Engine. The Infect player had Blue Tron built, so we played that after the tournament for testing. I simply can't beat Wurmcoil engine. Other options exist (like Cranial Extraction, Eradicate) but splashing white allows for me to use the Crime half of Crime//Punishment. I think Path to Exile is a little counterproductive to the Death Cloud/Smallpox plan, but against Tron it might be worth playing because it is cheap and I'll have mana to pay for Condescend/other permission.

    I still welcome any/all thoughts. Unfortunately, I'm still in development. This tournament told me nothing about this meta-game, and if the rest of the crew has decks of similar quality I'm not sure I want to keep playing there. My deck tops $1000 and most other folks were playing budget decks. *shrug* It's just not that rewarding.
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  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    I'm convinced that the amount of discard is dependent on the prevalence of counters and combo in the metagame. As we are all used to the Legacy format a bit more than to Modern I guess we have to rethink what the best discard configuration in G/B decks is. The metagame and specifically the presence of counters significantally differs from legacy where almost everyone seems to run a whole bunch of counters and disruption. In modern, one only has to fear Cryptic Command as a hard counter and combo decks are also less frequent, so I'm inclined to agree on your suggestion to decrease the number of 1mana discard to 4. Nevertheless, I acknowledge that it feels akward to lack an one-drop in your starting hand, which is the reason why I generally strive to have at least 8 of them as well, but then again, Modern is way slower than Legacy and I consider this mindset as a residuum of my long experience with legacy.

  20. #60
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    Re: [Deck] Pox/Death Cloud

    My thoughts on discard:

    1) I might be convinced to play 4 Thoughtseize, maybe...but it's so terrible in the late game. Early game it doesn't always do much either. It's the resource denial that is good, which makes me feel that the Best option would be to go with 4 of Liliana. I may trade/buy my 4th for this deck. As you say, the games go longer and this deck is ACTIVELY trying to drag the game out. Thoughtseize is really only there as a preemptive answer to combo decks, and gets sideboarded out frequently. With 2x Duress in the sideboard, I think the targeted discard is covered.

    2) Death Cloud, Smallpox, and Liliana are just so much better at disrupting opponents. They all bring more value than just a discard. All of them are huge tempo stalls, the weakest being Smallpox. While strong against agressive decks, Smallpox is weak against most everything else. I still think it's good enough to play, and good enough for a full set.

    Other than that, the real open question for me is how to tweak my creature base to get full value. I am working on Kitchen Finks x4 (have 3 now) and beyond that, I'm not sure.
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