Sorry, without playtesting it I don't think I'm in a position to say which 1-ofs would be better off as none-ofs.Originally Posted by woremak
I agree with you that it isn't terribly synergetic, but the fact is it's still really damn good against Geist, and that's a huge freaking problem for control. You don't need to tap out for it, and I wouldn't ever suggest that unless your opponent drops a Geist, but once you hit 5 mana on board I see no problem with leaving 2 up for the aforementioned spells. I was only arguing that it's much better than just an edict spell since it has that along with roles in other matchups. It's even kind of a win condition against some decks. It still seems like a better card that some of those.
I played in a GPT/TCG MaxPoint Qualifier thing today, which I won. 6 rounds then 3 in top 8.
I played the same main as the one I posted earlier, with the following sideboard:
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Negate
1 Remove Soul
1 Gather Specimens
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Tribute to Hunger
Here's a brief report:
Round One
I drew against a Bant deck with Geist, Swords and Thrun because I punted Game 2. I could've stabilized and kept the match going, winning the match 1-0-1. This kind of deck looks like a rough matchup as he had Spell Pierce and Leak after board.
Round Two
I played against Jund with finks and won in 2 games, Wurmcoil was an all-star post-board. It's worth noting he had Blightning instead of Liliana which is better for us, but still a fairly routine match.
Round Three
I beat burn 2-0, tutored for and resolved a couple of Rest for the Wearys, nothing much to write about.
Round Four
I played against eggs, losing 2-1 after I punted by tapping out in game 3. I think I could've taken the match, but this matchup looks like there's a lot of play. I wouldn't mind having another hard-counter. I also didn't have enough to board in for removal, so the sideboard definitely needs retooling.
Round Five
I played against Jund with Messenger and Liliana, taking it in three. Messenger isn't as scary as I thought it would be, but it certainly convinced me to leave in the main deck surgical. Sphinx's Revelation is an all-star
Round 6
I played against Burn again, not a huge deal.
Quarters
I played storm, which seems like an fairly good match up. They are a sorcery speed deck, really, so I was free to EOT teachings for Spell Snare and stock up on permission. Removal ended up being good because of Goblin Electromancer. I won in 2 games/.
Semis
I would've played storm but we chopped the cash prize so he conceded to me as I needed byes.
Finals
I played against living end, which is tough, but I was able to grind it out. Game 2 he brings in Leyline of the Void and I blow it up eventually with an Esper Charm.
All in all the deck felt great. There are some things I'd definitely change.
1. Steel Sabotage should be cut for Fracturing Gust, or something else entirely. It seems resoundingly mediocre.
2. It would be nice to have a way to exile a whole graveyard but Ravenous Trap seems suspect at best.
3. Remove Soul was great. I was deeply surprised.
4. Vendilion Clique should most definitely be in the 75 somewhere.
5. The mix of removal felt good to me, but I'm not convinced it's right still.
6. There was one game I didn't have a black source until turn five. It ended up not mattering. I only mulliganed three times the entire day, and it was because of the usual 1 Land/2 Land no gas hands. I think 2 land hands with Think Twice or all of your colors, early interaction and an Esper Charm are fine but I'm not convinced.
Anyway, the deck feels great and I'm feeling confident for GP Chicago.
Congratz on your result =D
In the list you posted, 1 Hallowed Fountain should be 1 Celestial Colonnade, right?
How do you feel about -1 Mystic Gate +1 Hallowed Fountain?
Multiple Gates in the opening hand seems bad, and more shocklands means better fetchlands.
Haha yeah it should be a colonnade, it's pretty hard to attack with a Hallowed Fountain. I see your point about cutting a Mystic Gate for another fountain, but I've really liked the ability of the gate to turn a white source into UU. They also make casting Zenith easier, although by the time you cast that it's not really a huge consideration. I think the real reason why I'm afraid to go over 4 shocks is that fetching for a land and taking three is the worst. I've never had a time where I wish I could fetch for a second fountain, and not-shocks make it less painful to curve out. That said I'm certainly going to try it out although I think the real conclusion is that it isn't going to matter. There have been a few times late in the game where a Marsh Flats has been unable to fetch anything, but it's never really been relevant. Either way I don't really have enough of a sample-size still to figure out what's "right" and am still going based off of the impression I've gotten from playing the deck a few times.
On top of that, the negate in the sideboard could be a Countersquall, although maybe having u/b available might make that a prohibitive cost to cast. I'm not sure. These are the things I think about when I should be studying for midterms...
Looks like this won a tourney at Pasttimes
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1064562
I been interested in esper teachings since Valeriy Skunkov wrote about it on Starcity. here
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/m...et-Review.html
I remember playing teachings in standard awhile ago was fun. haven't had a chance to try the modern deck though.
Yeah that's me, although they got my name wrong like always.
I have been mulling over a Teachings deck for awhile (when Gatecrash hits and I can get the rest of the lands is when I'll build it)
My current build I am thinking about
Creatures
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Consume the Meek
1 Cryptic Command
4 Esper Charm
1 Go for the Throat
1 Condemn
4 Mystical Teachings
4 Path to Exile
1 Remand
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Legendary Creatures
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Iona, Sheild Of Emeria
Sorceries
1 Unburial Rites
1 Damnation
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Thoughtseize
Basic Lands
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Lands
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Fetid Heath
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mystic Gate
2 River of Tears
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Watery Grave
Currently Playing:
Dredge, The Rock, Lands, Spiral Tide, Affinity
Tron is beatable postboard but the matchup is very depressing
What do you think are the reasons to play gifts ungiven in this sort of deck (or not)
I don't like gifts in the deck. If you want to cast a Gifts Ungiven, then play a gifts deck. Otherwise you add a four-mana do nothing that eats up slots for the purpose of making proper gifts packages. Also, every time you cast a gifts for "value" you actively deplete the amount of gas left in your deck.
Some other things I've been thinking about:
I'm not sure Echoing Truth is going to make the cut. I really like the card, as it leads to blowouts on occasion but I'm not sure it's better than Echoing Decay or something like Into the Roil, which can at least be used to cantrip. I've been boarding Echoing Truth out a lot more and I'm not sure it's really worth it at all. I'm also cutting Timely Reinforcements from my board, probably replacing however many I would run with Kitchen Finks instead. Finally, I was wondering if any of you have an opinion on Fracturing Gust: is it win more, or is it actually necessary for the Affinity matchup? I've never actually cast it against them, but I was wondering if anybody thought it was superior to a secondary disenchant effect.
After doing some testing with both gifts and teachings I can probably agree that teachings is a better shell for a draw-go control deck.
Gifts gives you a far greater ability to grind people out but it makes your deck much more durdly, which essentially makes your good matchups better and your bad matchups worse. This is not a good position to be in for a deck that basically wants to be 51% in every matchup and win on the back of playskill and good sideboarding.
I was playing a few games with your list and I can agree that the maindeck echoing truth can be eliminated and possibly replaced with into the roil or cyclonic rift. Sometimes I feel as though the maindeck rest for the weary is unnecessary and the consume the meek is incredibly frustrating to draw a lot of the time. I havent played any matchup yet where I feel that its needed in the maindeck but I havent played that many games yet.
Fracturing gust seems fine in the sense that its a trump that should just autowin you the game if you can cast it. More disenchant effects arent necessarily a better alternative because you still need a way to deal with etched champions.
Edit
After playing some more games I cut the Victim of Night for a Go for the Throat because double black is annoying a lot of the time, Geralf's Messenger is also a thing.
Sometimes I feel like Negate would be better than Muddle because PWs and sometimes enchantments artifacts etc are relevant things you want to counter. So far I've used it to search for Echoing Truth once and that's it. In saying that, I think Echoing Truth is the best card for that slot and I don't really want to cut it. It's a good catch-all answer and it's actual removal against tokens which is often relevant. Sometimes I feel like having 5 manlands is excessive and it can make the early game awkward with the mana leaks and spell snares you need to have online early. My sideboard right now is this
SB: 1 Rest for the Weary
SB: 1 Gather Specimens
SB: 1 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Negate
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Fracturing Gust
SB: 1 Extirpate
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 11-07-2012 at 11:31 AM.
Your SB looks really good. Would you mind running through a quick boarding guide against more popular decks? Something else I've been testing is Time Stop over Gather Specimens, not sure if it's actually better or just my desire to have a Time Stop in my sideboard.
Gather Specimens is for Tron
How to beat Tron: A primer
Step 1: Don't let Karn resolve
Step 2: Tutor for gather specimens
Time stop is not as good because they can still just grind through it with Eye of Ugin. If you have gather specimens they literally cannot put any (recurrable, ie eldrazi) threat on the board without just straight up dying to Annihilator the next turn (unless they get up to like 25 mana, hopefully you can kill them by then). You still leave in Path because you don't want them to be able to bait your Gather Specimens with a wurmcoil engine.
The discard and additional counterspells are for combo: Eggs actually has a reasonable game against the deck because they have silence. They won't see any Discard game one so they shouldn't board leyline of sanctity in.
I might try give more of a detailed rundown later after I'm more confident in the card choices I made.
How did those of you that went to the GP do with UWB Teachings?
I also saw this on magic.tgplayer going 4-0 on the mtgo queue
Different take with Inquisition instead of more Leaks and Spell Snares.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1073133
Esper Teachings by Cynthesis (4-0)
Format: Modern - RTR
Location: MTGO Modern Daily (4-0) - Week of 11/19/11
MAIN DECK
3 Snapcaster Mage
Creatures [3]
1 Consume the Meek
1 Cryptic Command
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
4 Esper Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Mana Leak
4 Mystical Teachings
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Surgical Extraction
1 White Sun's Zenith
Spells [30]
1 Celestial Colonnade
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
Lands [27]
SIDEBOARD
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Hideous Laughter
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
3 Rule of Law
2 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Sideboard [15]
Deck Total [60]
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