[INN] Spoiler discussion

[TsumiBand]

This just got spoiled. Personally I like it as an equipment holder. Blue means it's pitchable to FoW, hexproof means equipabble yet unkillable by most of your opponents spells, unblockable well.. it's a cherry on the top.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=352142

Invisible Stalker 1U
Creature - Human Rogue
Hexproof.
~ is unblockable.
1/1
"What bothers me is the vampire's sense of smell and those icy Nephalian nights."
(uncommon)

Sadly (fortunately) not a Merfolk. It's a very Fish-ish creature though, worth a try.

Mentor of the Meek seems real good but it costs about half-a-mana too much. Not that there's no way to push it out earlier than turn 3 in Legacy, but I'd almost rather see it as a 1/2 for WW or something.

EDIT - nvm, RTFC. You have to pay 1 for each dude/card. Fuck it. It's dumb.

[Rizso]

Geting the card for free woult be even more dumb, balancedwise :P
Would we really want to see a Glimpse of Nature in a body, that also triggers when tokens gets produced? :P

Really want it with combination of Bitterblossom, Elspeth or just cheap creatures overall.
It maybe wont be finding a home in legacy but Im pretty sure it will find home in other formats like modern, block and/or standard.

[Occam]

Liliana of the Veil 1BB (Mythic)
+1: Each player discards a card
-2: Edict effect
-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. Target chooses one, sacrifices everything in that pile
3 Loyalty

A bit underwhelming in the sense that her ultimate doesn't win the game. Her +1 could possibly have been a +2, with a slightly better ultimate (-5?) at BBB, which is something WOTC should be pushing instead of allowing PWs to be splashed.

It will still see play in decks that can break the symmetry of her first ability, and an edict effect will play well with a removal heavy deck packing stuff like Gatekeepers as well. It's also useful against threat-light decks like TA as it evades MMS and snare while eating goyfs and stalkers. Could work as a 2-of in a control list that plays loam, especially as it combines edict effects with Raven's Crime, with the disability that Intuition doesn't create a situation where you relegate the control opponent to topdecking unless you have Vess in your hand or in play.

[Octopusman]

Fiend Hunter:
1WW
human cleric

When Fiend Hunter enters the battlefield, you may exile another target creature.

When Fiend Hunter leaves the battlefield, return the exiled card to the battlefield under it's owner's control.

1/3

So wizards loves D&T. Relic-Warder is a house.


Kruin Outlaw // Terror of Kruin Pass
1RR

Creature - Human Rogue Werewolf // Creature - Werewolf
First strike
At the beginning of each upkeep, if no spells were cast last turn, transform Kruin Outlaw.
////////////
Double strike
Each Werewolf you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
At the beginning of each upkeep, if a player cast two or more spells last turn, transform Terror of Kruin Pass.
"Hold tight. I've got a surprise for them."
Illus. David Rapoza 2/2 // 3/3


This is the first one that made me interested.

This really makes me wonder if there will be a fast clock werewolf in U or W that can serve as an efficient win-con in control if they can get their cheap werewolf out, then draw and pass the turn.

[Plm]

Lilianna of the veil is 3 mana !

Her 2 first abilities are good in pox ( yeah for what it's worth, but I'm triyng so hard to make pox viable).

With an edict like capacity she can protect herself, the moot point is that her ultimate don't win the game.


Aside the pox players, anyone can see a use for her ?

[conboy31]

My knee jerk reaction is disappointment with Vess, but I wanted a new walker to experiment with so I will be sleeving her up regardless.

[Basaka]

Think Liliana might be played in Reanimator decks somehow?

[conboy31]

I don't know, it would take re-adjusting. The current reanimators want t1 discard, t2 reanimate, or t1 protection, t2 discard/reanimate or t3 reanimate. If vess is not cast via dark ritual it would drastically change the decks critical turn.

[Philipp2293]

These new spoilers make me want to build UWr Fish so bad.

Also, I guess the new hexproof guy may push UG Infect half a tier up.

[eq.firemind]

I guess I should discard some Bloodghasts and Vengevines with new Liliana, then dig them out and clear path for them with the same Liliana. Seems at least not bad for 3 mana investment.

[Rizso]

Liliana of the Veil 1BB (Mythic)
+1: Each player discards a card
-2: Edict effect
-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. Target chooses one, sacrifices everything in that pile
3 Loyalty

A bit underwhelming in the sense that her ultimate doesn't win the game. Her +1 could possibly have been a +2, with a slightly better ultimate (-5?) at BBB, which is something WOTC should be pushing instead of allowing PWs to be splashed.

It will still see play in decks that can break the symmetry of her first ability, and an edict effect will play well with a removal heavy deck packing stuff like Gatekeepers as well. It's also useful against threat-light decks like TA as it evades MMS and snare while eating goyfs and stalkers. Could work as a 2-of in a control list that plays loam, especially as it combines edict effects with Raven's Crime, with the disability that Intuition doesn't create a situation where you relegate the control opponent to topdecking unless you have Vess in your hand or in play.

-6 for an ultimate is quite cheap for a 3cc planeswalker thats why it doesnt win directly like JTMS does.
Think its no brainer that the -2 Abiltie is the key abilty on her. I Kinda do like the +1 abilty, you can still as the controller play arround it, mean if you dont have any cards in hand you dont discard any. The ultimate is all about boardstate. For example against a creature heavy board you might want to put creatures into 1 pile and lands in the other. If the sac their lands you blow them with an other wrath effect.

Think she is gonna fit into Dark Confidant decks quite good, grinding out their opponents card by card.

[conboy31]

Right, pretty much all the various cards and packages should be considered for vess: cabal therapy, deep analysis, genesis, gigapede, bloodghast, vvine, volraths stronghold, rootwalla, ooze combo, academy ruin, crucible, loam, retrace mechanic, etc.

[The Big Ragu]

I'm disappointed in Liliana.

[Amon Amarth]

Liliana seems very abuseable. There are many, many ways to get an advantage out of self-discard. I'm certain there are more cards in the set that will combo well with it.

[Gheizen64]

Personally, i like Liliana. Being an edict for 1BB already make her almost worth it. The first ability isn't the best, but can be worked to your advantage.

I think it will see some play, problem is to find an heavy black deck in legacy, since this cost BB.

[Maëlig]

Dunno about Liliana, her second ability is pretty awesome and it's true that she's at worse an overcosted edict. But her 2 other abilities seem pretty lackluster.

[Julian23]

I can see Liliana 2.0 taking two slots in BUG Visions, replacing an Edict and something.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Liliana is actually pretty sick if you play her off a T1 Ritual. She becomes much harder to deal with then, and ramps up quickly.

[dahcmai]

I'll take Careful Study over her for Reanimator any day. It's a tad too slow for my taste, but not horrible. I don't think I'd play her in Legacy, but Standard will want it.

[(nameless one)]

I think you guys are trying to put Lily in the wrong deck.

She wouldn't work in Reanimator because by the time you get to 1BB, you probably are better off win Jin Gitaxias.

She might work in Pox but it would require you running Crucible of Worlds or something that can be recured.

I think the best deck for her would be Ken Adam's B/G Vengevine. Remember that deck? Discard your madness cards to her to ramp her up. If you need to Edict, you do it. If you need to Pox the board, you do it.