[INN] Spoiler discussion

[death]

I'm excited to jam that new Liliana in an old Team America shell (with Stifles, Sinkholes) and make someone's life miserable. I think it'll fit well also in a U/W Pox shell with Sinkholes and Vindicates. You can generate card advantage by cutting them off from mana and by +1ng Liliana you can have enough edict effects to protect her, until you drop a Goyf or Stalker to swing in for the win. In short, she can make Sinkhole a playable card again.

[joemauer]

Lily Vess is a card that begs to have a deck built around. Helps mono black against control, a tough MU right now. Only downside is it won't help monoblack against zoo, the other tough MU. Monoblack has good cards it just needs something like this to up it's power level some. Not a card like P obliterator.

[TsumiBand]

Yes, BG Vengevine Madness insanity for Liliana. I never liked Aquamoeba anyway. Blue is stupid in Madness, just punch their face off.

[Angelfire]

Liliana is solid. As far as three mana Planeswalkers go, she is much stronger than baby Jace. Could be real strong in Standard.

Set is shaping up nicely so far. I wanna see more flashback cards.

[DrJones]

The proof that the new Liliana is good, is that the people at MtgSalvation are saying that it's weak.

[Tombstalker]

I'm with death on this one classic TA is definitely gonna be testing liliana. I was just messing with a 3/2 split of hymn and sinkhole last night!

[Hanni]

I will be running Liliana in my UBg Control deck, for sure. I'm thinking as a 2-of would be perfect. She is a 3cc Edict that sticks around. If the opponent swings into her, the she's essentially an Edict + lifegain spell. The self discard barely hurts that deck (should hurt the opponent a lot more), and two Edicts for 1BB is sweet. The one-sided Pox effect is also a gamechanger if she ever goes off. 1BB Planeswalker with 3 relevant abilities is awesome.

Don't forget, guys. This is a solid answer to Emrakul that can also deal with Progenitus.

[wcm8]

I think she'll be a 1 or 2-of in UBG control decks. It's hard to say whether she'll be best in an aggro/control TA-style deck, or in a Pernicious Deed/Jace/Loam deck. Loam seems to be the most obvious way to circumvent the downside of her discard ability. Perhaps a G/B deck that drops blue entirely and uses cards like Raven's Crime, Worm Harvest, etc. could make good use of her utility.

[metamet]

I absolutely adore the new Liliana. Does a Team or perhaps a UBG Madness shell support her best?

Without getting too jankly, I feel that running Intuition, Buried Alive, Rootwalla, Blooghast, and Vengies would compliment her fairly well... Add to that Cabal Therapy, Life from the Loam, and Jace.

[Nihil Credo]

Liliana is very reminiscent of Jace 1.0, and not simply in the numbers. With Jace 1.0 you'd cycle him and then if he dies, you're fine with that, if he survives you start grinding out a gradual advantage (and you never go for the ultimate).

Likewise, you're going to be fine if Liliana is just an Edict + gain X life; when she happens to survive, you get to grind out a gradual advantage (and you never go for the ultimate). The obvious downside (yeah, yeah, besides her colour) is that she only gives you CA one turn out of three, instead of two; however, she's much more likely to stick around than Jace was, so I believe it balances out.

Oh, and the best way to optimise her first ability is just to make sure you can play out your hand reasonably fast, not to run random graveyard cards (of course, there are a few like Cabal Therapy that fit both purposes).

[Hanni]

I agree with most of your post Nihil, except a few things. I think running Loam alongside Liliana, and therefore having a large hand of cards you don't mind discarding (excess lands) is also a good way to circumvent the drawback of the first ability.

Secondly, I think that the ultimate can be incredibly strong, especially in a contrl deck. While leaving her as a ramped up Edict machine may be better in more situations, the ability to nuke a bunch of stuff off the opponents board can be huge. Imagine destroying 4+ lands in the control mirror, for example.

[Aggro_zombies]

I agree with most of your post Nihil, except a few things. I think running Loam alongside Liliana, and therefore having a large hand of cards you don't mind discarding (excess lands) is also a good way to circumvent the drawback of the first ability.

I want to disagree with this because it's Hanni, but yeah, the new Lili seems good in GBx Loam shells. She provides board control with her -2 and you can easily break the symmetry of the +1, making her serviceable in a lot of different matchups.

Three mana is kind of a problem, though. Most decks that do big things do so on turn 4-5, so her disruption mode might not come online fast enough.

[Amon Amarth]

I agree with most of your post Nihil, except a few things. I think running Loam alongside Liliana, and therefore having a large hand of cards you don't mind discarding (excess lands) is also a good way to circumvent the drawback of the first ability.

Secondly, I think that the ultimate can be incredibly strong, especially in a contrl deck. While leaving her as a ramped up Edict machine may be better in more situations, the ability to nuke a bunch of stuff off the opponents board can be huge. Imagine destroying 4+ lands in the control mirror, for example.

The ultimate seems insane as well as "damned if you do, damned if you don't" synergy with her +1.

I want to play Liliana in MBC so bad.

[Tombstalker]

I think liliana will go fine in TA style decks since they can empty their hand very quickly and so can often ignore the discard. The fact that she replaces existing removal/discard slots and hits emrakul/progen as already stated is just gravey.

[dahcmai]

Heh, found a fit for her in my Loam/Raven's Crime/Spellweaver Helix deck. It actually will fit perfectly in there.

If the Salvation people don't like her, then I definitely want four foils.

[Telperion]

Stromkirk Noble seems aggressive enough for standard, but it's probably no better than the hasted dervish. What is with that horrible art though? It looks like amateur paintshop.

[Lancer]

I like Stromkirk, he's small and can become a big hitter if uncheck. I'm not sure he's good for Burn, Goblin Guide is king.

[Gheizen64]

Relevant humans in legacy:

Knight of the reliquary
Dark confidant
Noble Hierarch
Stoneforge Mystic
Mangara of Corondor
Mother of Runes (she's a human now actually, lol Oracle)
Grim Lavamancer (same as Mom)
Mirran Crusader

maybe something else

Relevant non-human blockers

Zoo creatures except Kotr and Lynx
Goblin
Merfolk

Stromkirk isn't the worst card ever, it get damage parity with Goblin Guide in 5 turns without the card disadvantage. Goblin guide + Therapy + Dark confidant + burn.dec is sexy though. Let's see if this block give something decent to BR decks.

[TsumiBand]

Stoneforge Mystic is not a Human. She's a Kor Artificer. The imaginary 'Human' deck is in her colors though, there's a billion White weenies that just happen to be Humans, in addition to all the dudes being discussed.

Still, a Human Lord would actually make for a lot of 'almost tribal' decks to coalesce into something workable; although stupid Merfolk is still the best Sliver deck you'll ever play, sad face.

[Mr. Safety]

Stromkirk Noble seems aggressive enough for standard, but it's probably no better than Slith Firewalker. What is with that horrible art though? It looks like amateur paintshop.

Fix'd