What was the last good RED card printed?

[Redshift]

Average mana cost doesnt really matter as not every card in the set is gonna be playable anyway.

Mana cost is incredibly relevant to playability in Legacy. The vast majority (80%+) of the legacy playable cards spoiled so far for this set are blue.

The fact that the blue cards are so much easier to cast, right away means that blue has a much higher chance than any other color of seeing game time in legacy.

[Phoenix Ignition]

It looks like red may have one possible legacy playable card from this set so far.

By my estimation, at this point blue has 10 that could see some play in legacy.

Just as a side note, here is the average cost of the cards spoiled for each color as of now:

White - 3.93
Blue - 2.83
Black - 3.55
Red - 3.55
Green - 3.13

Does this look just wrong to anyone else? Looks like sad times for non-blue mages...

How would the average value cmc ever play a roll in what's usable in Legacy? I mean, come on, there's maybe 1-2 cards per set that are playable, looking at the average cmc isn't going to tell you shit.

[Rizso]

For legacy outside of new phyrexia pretty much only max 1 card of each color been playable for format. Average mana cost doesnt matter at all on the set.

What other blue card then Snapcaster Mage for blue is a possible legacy playable?

I see 1 blue, 1 Red and 1 black possible playable for legacy so far.

[Redshift]

How would the average value cmc ever play a roll in what's usable in Legacy? I mean, come on, there's maybe 1-2 cards per set that are playable, looking at the average cmc isn't going to tell you shit.

Hmm, I though this was pretty clear, but I guess not. Mana cost directly correlates to playability. As the average speed of the format increase, higher cost cards become less and less playable as a result.

If we go by the assumption that the fundamental turn for aggro in legacy is 4, many spells that cost more than that are downright unplayable. They have to be way above the power curve or win the game immediately to be played at all: Wrath of God, Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Ad Nauseum, Hivemind etc. Cards that cost 0, 1, and 2 mana on the other hand, can be played sometimes even for marginal benefit.

Because the power level threshold for playability on cards that cost 4+ is insanely high in legacy, if the average cost of the cards in a set approaches that upper limit, there becomes a much smaller chance for any of them to reach that power level threshold.

If the average cost of the blue cards in the set is much less than those of white, for instance, many more blue cards will have even the remotest chance of seeing play in legacy, based on that alone.

I don't know how to put it any more simply.

[rufus]

Here's a fun concept for a red card:

Fark
Sorcery
Cast this spell as a copy of a red sorcery card in you graveyard.

[rufus]

Hmm, I though this was pretty clear, but I guess not. Mana cost directly correlates to playability. As the average speed of the format increase, higher cost cards become less and less playable as a result.
...
If we go by the assumption that the fundamental turn for aggro in legacy is 4, many spells that cost more than that are
I don't know how to put it any more simply.

It's silly to look at 'average' mana costs. What matters is how many spells with cc 1, 2, 3, and 4 there are.

[Dark Ritual]

Past in flames ;) Finally getting some love eh red?

[Redshift]

Past in flames ;) Finally getting some love eh red?

While Past in Flames may be good in a deck or two, Reckless Waif//Merciless Predator was so close to being good. Funny though, it is definitely much worse than Delver of Secrets//Insectile Aberration. Red and blue both got potential 3/2's for one mana, however, the red one is vanilla, is reliant on the opponent to transform an can be transformed back rather easily. The blue one has flying, will be super easy to transform, does not rely on the opponent for anything, and can never be transformed back... Apparently red is taking second fiddle to blue when it comes to aggressive weenie creatures?

Even more hilarious, is this article by Tom LaPille, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...g/daily/ld/160 , wherein he states that Reckless Waif//Merciless Predator was potentially too good at common so they made it uncommon.

I guess if you make it blue you can leave it common, remove the drawback, and add flying because blue stuff should be more aggressive than red (flavor wise), and blue is underpowered anyway, right?

...wow

[Goaswerfraiejen]

The last card that was printed as exclusively red and which has seen some (light) legacy play is Galvanic Blast.

[Redshift]

The last card that was printed as exclusively red and which has seen some (light) legacy play is Galvanic Blast.

Galvanic blast is really good. The underlying problem in it's effectiveness may be that there is not much else in red that you want in a well rounded artifact deck. White gives you SFM and thopter foundry along with STP and sideboard stuff like ethersworn canonist. In black you get foundry again, disciple and Tezz 2.0, along with disruption like thoughtseize and great sideboard stuff like extirpate and perish. In blue, you get tons of card draw (thirst and thoughtcast), lords, tutors, the ability to beat combo, and of course all the usual great blue stuff.

Now, goblin welder is totally amazing, but can't be thrown into most decks with a significant investment in terms of deck design. Red needs more cards like welder.

Hmm, interesting side note, green with artifacts is basically non-existent.

[catmint]

While Past in Flames may be good in a deck or two, Reckless Waif//Merciless Predator was so close to being good. Funny though, it is definitely much worse than Delver of Secrets//Insectile Aberration. Red and blue both got potential 3/2's for one mana, however, the red one is vanilla, is reliant on the opponent to transform an can be transformed back rather easily. The blue one has flying, will be super easy to transform, does not rely on the opponent for anything, and can never be transformed back... Apparently red is taking second fiddle to blue when it comes to aggressive weenie creatures?

Even more hilarious, is this article by Tom LaPille, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...g/daily/ld/160 , wherein he states that Reckless Waif//Merciless Predator was potentially too good at common so they made it uncommon.

I guess if you make it blue you can leave it common, remove the drawback, and add flying because blue stuff should be more aggressive than red (flavor wise), and blue is underpowered anyway, right?

...wow

I totally agree. I am very dissapointed because of this two cards thinking about legacy.

However, Tom Lapille was talking about limited where Reckless Waif is of course much more powerfull than the blue dude.

[Maveric78f]

This being said, blue looks insanely bad in limited. Is there a single good common? Moon Heron and Claustrophobia. They are correct, not broken... I don't believe at all in the overpowered creatures that need to exile a creature to be played. The only card allowing this and that is not card disadvantage is Civilized Scholar, which will work only once, since it's going to be transformed once it did this job.

In comparison, black has a lot of cheap creature removal and red/green good beaters. White is more than ever the weeny color with good interactions and also some efficient removal.

[Draener]

If you don't attack with civilized scholar, he will transform back.

[DragoFireheart]

You know, for all the crap Red gets as being a bad card, it has some of the most amazing sideboard / sideboard like cards.


Grim Lavamancer
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast
Ancient Grudge

[Iron Buddha]

I think Red got a serious upgrade with the growing popularity of Planeswalkers.