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Thread: Modern Banned List

  1. #1
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    Modern Banned List

    http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/m...g_Forward.html

    Todd Anderson's article today discusses his take on the Modern banned list in the wake of the PT. I already expressed my feelings over there; I don't think you have much room to comment on the metagame when you admit that you had it pegged completely wrong to begin with. But I thought I would get some opinions here. What do you guys think about the banned list? Do you think anything should come off? Do you think Cloudpost and Twin should be nerfed? Do you think it's too early to tell, or that the metagame will self-adjust and settle into a state of flux the way Legacy's meta does?
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    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    As someone who abandoned his SCG account long ago because the forums were pretty horrendous, you have me wishing I could log into them at work so I could tell the person how stupid this is. He's basically asking them to ban 12-post decks down, slow down combo via losing rite of flame, and then let the format turn into standard Pre-bannings of Jace and Stoneforge.

    I didn't want to play that Standard then, I didn't enjoy it when Legacy turned into LAWL BLADECONTROLALAWLALALAWL.... why on earth would I want to play that Format again now in Modern? No thank you. The format is fine as it is currently. Maybe control needs better tools to fight combo so that the format can try to do the whole Rock, paper, scissors thing... but honestly I think it's too early to make that call and they should leave the format alone to grow and define itself. THEN take action if action need be taken.

    tl;dr: Don't be a tool, I don't want to play another iteration of Caw-Blade.format
    Last edited by Sims; 09-08-2011 at 03:01 PM. Reason: holy terrible spelling batman!
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    It's mind boggling that anyone would be unaware enough to think that they're even considering taking Jace, SFM, or even Mental Misstep off the banned list after the damage the first two did to Standard, and all the complaints they're getting about the latter ruining Legacy (which I think is overstated personally, but then I thought the flip cards from Kamigawa were cool.)

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Unban Necro, then ban everything until Necro is good. Then Ban Necro. lol

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    This article is yet another example of some blue player whining about blue not dominating a format for once. He, like everyone else I've seen talk about bans lately, is completely jumping the gun. We need much more data before anything can be banned - the format has to settle into an actual metagame. Then, if combo still dominates, we can think of nerfing something/unbanning control cards.
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  6. #6

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Not to mention they could print some strong combo hosers in the next set instead of messing with the ban list...

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    If people are freaking out about Twin I would LOVE to see Zoo decks start boarding in shit like Root Maze to slow the combo down and then pummel them with removal while their lands are coming into play tapped and they have a harder time countering. Shit, i'd love to see people playing Root Maze, period.

    Edit: Actually, it would probably fit better in Green Post... 8 of theirl ands come into play tapped anyways, minor modifications to the deck could easily make Root Maze a viable speedbump against combo that doesn't hinder post as badly.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    This article is yet another example of some blue player whining about blue not dominating a format for once. He, like everyone else I've seen talk about bans lately, is completely jumping the gun. We need much more data before anything can be banned - the format has to settle into an actual metagame. Then, if combo still dominates, we can think of nerfing something/unbanning control cards.
    I think combo will continue to do well and that control will continue to be non-existent. Zoo has tools to beat combo and so does GreenPost, but combo can still fight back. Actually, what does the best job of beating up on combo is Jund. You take a relatively quick clock and back it up with Thoughtseize and Blightning. But Jund loses to Zoo because Putrid Leech and Thoughtseize aren't cards you want to play against Wild Nacatl and Lightning Bolt.

    Honestly though, even if they unbanned all of the blue cards on the list, control would still be dead in the water. The more of a stranglehold control puts on aggro and combo (and thus the less focus in sideboards on beating GreenPost), the more GreenPost would dominate. And honestly, despite the poor outing at the PT, GreenPost is still the best deck in the format. I would say that Splinter Twin beats it relatively consistently (which is why I felt Twin was the top deck going into Philly) but Persist and Zoo should beat Twin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I can't believe I read this poorly conceived bullshit
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  10. #10

    Re: Modern Banned List

    or reprint Force of Will

  11. #11
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    It's an alright article, but what makes it TROLOLable is his choice of ban/unban:

    Unbans: Jace, SFM, Mental Misstep
    Bans: Rite of Flame, Cloud Post, combo etc

    Seems like he REALLY just wants to play Stoneblade in Modern lol.

    Personally I think Jace, MM, SFM can all come off, since without FoW/Daze, Stoneblade is alright, and is powerful but nowhere over the top. BBE/Zoo beats it all day (postboard Grips/Ancient Grudge). Tapping out on turn 4 for a Jace without FoW/Daze is like asking him to be destroyed.

    But with Jace, SFM, MM unbanned possibly, banning Rite of Flame, Cloud Post, combo makes zero sense. The whole point of unbanning is to power certain decks, not to destroy good existing decks. Todd is the perfect example of someone how writes in a 'general' tone, but is in fact looking at the situation/format from a very narrow perspective, and that is he isn't really giving the format enough time to mature before making his decisions.

    I mean, it's less than a few months into Modern, and we are acting like we know the format inside out. Who woulda thought infect make a debut in a sea of Cloudpost/Zoo/Ascension/Twin? It's called, the format is still too young, the banlist is like a virgin squeezed too tight for now, but adding more things onto the banlist is like asking Modern players to play Extended Standard all over again.

    Last thing: It still seems that WotC THEMSELVES are treating Modern in the wrong light. Their intention with the initial list is to make it as conservative and promote a more direct/aggro environment. This clearly failed because any format with severly weakened control is just going to see a big boom of combo if it is viable. Modern has viable combo decks, and I think WotC just needs to stop treating their Pro Tour formats as Standard/limited formats. There is something to be said about an 'eternal' format where combo/aggro/control are all viable. Oh wait, it's called Legacy, but WotC doesn't really care as much for the only truly awesome format in the game.
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  12. #12

    Re: Modern Banned List

    I had wrote a wall of text but I lost it. Anyhow...

    Banning Post should be on the table. It neuters so many strategies, many of them being blue decks that aren't combo. Spell Snare starts to look really meek vs Post. Spell Snare against the rest of the format? Pretty good. The fact that 12post just eats a NLB deck that has all the cards it needs and more legal to hold down a format infested with combo should be indicative of something.

    Another option is unbanning Bitterblossom. Reintroducing Ub Faeries to modern might work as they would be the formats police force in dealing with combo decks. This would be better than introducing Uw Stoneforge as the control deck of the format as that would just create the biggest problems for Zoo, while Faeries would be a hell of a lot more manageable.

    Something should be done but what is with that dude? Ban Rite of Flame? Ban Inkmoth Nexus? Give me a break.

    Edit: Mental Misstep should not be unbanned. Yes it would make control stronger and it might make combo weaker, might since combo would play it, but it would kill Zoo. This should not happen.

  13. #13
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Haven't read the article but this quote lost me really early on:

    "With that said, on to some real business: Modern. Possibly the fastest Pro Tour format in recent history, Modern displayed aggressive and consistent third turn kills, which is faster and possibly more degenerate than Pro Tour: Tinker early last decade..."

    Like the amount of fucking stupid in that post just hurts.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Wow... I cannot believe I missed that line while i was reading the article at work. If I had noticed it I would have stopped reading then and there. That is asinine.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    What's wrong with a combo format?
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  16. #16

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Why is everyone's instinct to ban things?

    Why not unban Bitterblossom and Ancestral Vision to let faeries beat the crap out of all the combo. Then zoo can just beat the crap out of faeries.

    Seems like the most logical move to me; changes the format without having to ban more cards. Banning cards sucks
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  17. #17

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Why is everyone's instinct to ban things?

    Why not unban Bitterblossom and Ancestral Vision to let faeries beat the crap out of all the combo. Then zoo can just beat the crap out of faeries.

    Seems like the most logical move to me; changes the format without having to ban more cards. Banning cards sucks
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    There is something to be said about an 'eternal' format where combo/aggro/control are all viable. Oh wait, it's called Legacy, but WotC doesn't really care as much for the only truly awesome format in the game.
    You're right, they obviously don't care much about a format that will be the cornerstone of two Grand Prix events in a single year - and has been for two years straight.
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  19. #19

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Wizards won't tolerate such a combo heavy format so you can bet on the banned list changing somehow. At the same time his suggestions are awful.

    The two avenues open are attacking combo decks with more bannings, or unbanning blue and its partners in crime. One will happen. Which? Who knows.

  20. #20
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Sims View Post
    Wow... I cannot believe I missed that line while i was reading the article at work. If I had noticed it I would have stopped reading then and there. That is asinine.
    Best way to start an article is to make inappropriate comparisons to Tinker, apparently.
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