Modern Banned List

[JPoJohnson]

This is the second time I've lost a deck to WotC deciding that a deck that didn't violate any actual rules didn't fit into their perfect child of a format (Eggs and then Twin).

I'm not going to build any modern specific decks anymore. I'll have things like slivers and merfolk that are spill overs from Legacy decks I have sitting around, but I'm not going to build things like Tron or affinity. WotC has made it clear that they are too distanced from the players in this format I think.

[Dice_Box]

The issue with this ban was that no one asked for it. Eggs took a hit and that bothered few, DRS as well. Pod people saw coming but Twin, it followed all the rules and caused none of the issues Eggs did. It was seen as a safe deck because it never crossed that line in the sand. Now it apears you don't have to cross that line to matter.

Sad really.

[JPoJohnson]

The issue with this ban was that no one asked for it. Eggs took a hit and that bothered few, DRS as well. Pod people saw coming but Twin, it followed all the rules and caused none of the issues Eggs did. It was seen as a safe deck because it never crossed that line in the sand. Now it apears you don't have to cross that line to matter.

Sad really.

Exactly. I know quite a few people that have sold out of the format. There are those that sell out because their favourite deck was just barely banned and others that are simply worried their deck (affinity/tron/eldrazi) is going to get banned in some way and they don't want to lose their investment.

Either way, they did a great job of making people scared of losing their decks which is causing less interest in the format.

[Spam]

Sounds sad, but Twin got banned for a simple reason: the Pro Tour.
This is how they can make rotate a non rotating format; Twin was fine, I guess, but banning it will open more windows for new decks and new cards from the latest set.
It's just extended 2.0 (we change when whe want)

[Richard Cheese]

I'm totally ignorant about Modern, so apologies if this is way off-base, but I thought WotC's intentions for Modern from the very beginning were to be very aggressive with the banned list, and essentially ban the "best deck" from time to time.

If that's true, I guess the question is how you define the best deck. Goldfish said Twin was something like 9% of the field, which honestly doesn't seem that bad. Certainly seems shitty if you've invested a bunch of time and money into a Tier-1 strategy, but kinda nice if you're more into brewing or playing on a budget.

[iatee]

I don't think anyone would argue w/ Jund being the best deck when they banned DRS or Pod+Delver being the two best decks when they banned Pod+TC/DTT.

Combined Twin variants might have been the most played deck by some small margin, but I don't think 'Twin is the best deck in modern' is a statement that a majority of Modern players woulda agreed with a week ago. Which is why this was kinda shocking.

[swoop]

I think it was banned because you could put Exarch + twin in any UR deck combination and have it as alt win condition. Or main. It was destroying the format diversity

[Admiral_Arzar]

I think it was banned because you could put Exarch + twin in any UR deck combination and have it as alt win condition. Or main. It was destroying the format diversity

Yup, this is it. There just wasn't any real reason to play a blue deck that wasn't Twin because Twin was always better.

[Valtrix]

I would have been okay with a Jace unban if they decided to ban Twin. Big mana decks are going to be a big player in the format for awhile (Eldrazi, Tron)

[Phoenix Ignition]

Finally some people who actually read their statement.

I agree Twin wasn't necessary to ban, but as WotC said about it, it basically turned Urb, Urw, Urg, and Ur decks into twin variants instead of being their own unique decks. Any shell that had those colors was better off just throwing in ~6-8 pestermite effects and 4 Splinter Twins because now all of a sudden you accidentally won the game on turn 4 since they all have similar cantrips.

Also mentioned was the fact that 95% of the cards in a Splinter Twin deck can go into any other deck now and you really won't lose that much value, so it's not like they didn't consider that option. Sure it sucks if that deck was the only reason you played modern, but overall I see this ban as a slightly good thing. After everyone figured out how you should play against Twin it's not like the deck was terribly enjoyable either way, but that could just be me.

Amulet bloom decks got what they deserved. I've had enough losing on turn 2 or beating a deck that doesn't even show up to the game, those options are equally fun. And yes, I'm one of those incorrect people who plays the game for fun.

[Lord Seth]

Yup, this is it. There just wasn't any real reason to play a blue deck that wasn't Twin because Twin was always better.

Just like how there was no reason to play an aggro deck that wasn't Zoo because Wild Nacatl was always better. How well did that logic work out?

This whole "Twin repressed other UR decks!" seems to be highly misunderstanding why Twin was seeing play rather than those. People weren't playing those non-Twin blue decks because they weren't as good as Twin; they weren't playing them because they generally weren't good period. It's the same thing as those non-Nacatl aggro decks. Sure, Affinity and Merfolk were a thing after the ban, but they were a thing before it too.

The reason Twin worked while the others didn't was largely because there were a lot of different decks and because there aren't really any good general catch-all answers in Blue (unlike Black, where you have Thoughtseize) they weren't that viable unless you wanted to play Sideboard Roulette. Twin provided the best answer to that by having a "catch-all" answer in the form of its combo.

It's also worth noticing that non-Twin blue decks were generally good matchups against Twin. So by banning Twin, you've taken out a good matchup for them and ensured that all of the various uninteractive decks that force Sideboard Roulette will be a larger part of the format. We're likely going to see a drop in non-Twin Blue decks after this announcement.

[iatee]

Just like how there was no reason to play an aggro deck that wasn't Zoo because Wild Nacatl was always better. How well did that logic work out?

This whole "Twin repressed other UR decks!" seems to be highly misunderstanding why Twin was seeing play rather than those. People weren't playing those non-Twin blue decks because they weren't as good as Twin; they weren't playing them because they generally weren't good period. It's the same thing as those non-Nacatl aggro decks. Sure, Affinity and Merfolk were a thing after the ban, but they were a thing before it too.

The reason Twin worked while the others didn't was largely because there were a lot of different decks and because there aren't really any good general catch-all answers in Blue (unlike Black, where you have Thoughtseize) they weren't that viable unless you wanted to play Sideboard Roulette. Twin provided the best answer to that by having a "catch-all" answer in the form of its combo.

It's also worth noticing that non-Twin blue decks were generally good matchups against Twin. So by banning Twin, you've taken out a good matchup for them and ensured that all of the various uninteractive decks that force Sideboard Roulette will be a larger part of the format. We're likely going to see a drop in non-Twin Blue decks after this announcement.

Totally. Non-twin blue decks punished Twin decks g1 because the two decks were playing similar games, but one had clunky 1/4s and 4 mana enchantments, the other had lots of answers to the combo. I've played Grixis Delver for a while and Twin was probably my second best matchup after Infect. By getting rid of Twin you not only take away one of the great matchups for all Grixis decks, but you let loose a lot of non-interactive decks that Twin help keep in check with its 'bring some interaction or you'll lose t4' potential.

Nothing was stopping people from playing Esper Control or pure UWR control just cause 'Twin was better'. People have played these decks, they weren't consistent, and they're relatively worse now that the Twin-police is gone. There's no real payoff for playing blue control in Modern - the counterspells are very conditional, the only strong form of card advantage is Snapcaster, and the cantrips are pretty awful.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Agree with the above two posts — I don't see how a Twin banning opens up the field for alternative U/R/x shells. As said, most of these different U/R/x decks aren't played because Twin was better, they're not played because they aren't very good against the meta as a whole. Most reactive decks like U/R/W or Grixis Control struggle to battle against fast, linear decks and big mana strategies that are numerous in Modern. U/R/x Tempo decks aren't very good and just lost one of their better matchups being 11% of the field. I guess that leaves, uh, Scapeshift?

It's not like there are a ton of powerful, potential strategies waiting in the wings, post-Twin ban, for U/R/x in Modern.

[swoop]

Alt urx shells weren't played because playing twin made them better.

Any urx was ultimately better with twin so why would you intentionality play a lesser deck if you decide to compete?

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[Dice_Box]

Alt urx shells weren't played because playing twin made them better.

Any urx was ultimately better with twin so why would you intentionality play a lesser deck if you decide to compete?

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Because this is not totally true. Grixis Control is in my eyes is more powerful then Grixis Twin in the longer grinding matches and some of the decks like Infect. The deck is one big card advantage engine with Jace, Snapcaster, Kolaghan's Command, Tasigur, Rise/Fall and Painful Truths. The actual Grixis Twin deck was know to play four targets and three Twin just to sure up some of the tougher matches while in my view just turning into a bad deck overall. It lost in the mirror and it lost to Control.

In a format where your best two Mana counters either give them back their card or are worthless in the late game, Blue control is really in a tough place. The best way to play control in Modern is though Black and Red and that's not Twin's fault. This is why you will see more decks like Grixis and less like Patroit in the control sphere.

Twin going is not going to suddenly change the fact that control still dies to Tron either.

[rufus]

Alt urx shells weren't played because playing twin made them better.

Any urx was ultimately better with twin so why would you intentionality play a lesser deck if you decide to compete?

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Thing is, if you play URx you're also going to be playing a fetchland dual package. Heck, I'd be willing to wager that more URx decks had fetchland/duals main than ran splinter twin, and yet they don't seem to have any issue with those cards. "It was the best card to play" doesn't really justify a ban.

On some level, it would be funny if WotC officially made modern into the "get your card banned" format, and just put winning players' names next to the card on the ban list as part of the prize.

[Holiday]

I apologize if this has been discussed I'm not super familiar with modern. Is it feasible for Twin decks just to run Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker instead? The drawbacks are he's a creature and he costs more than Spinter Twin. How much worse would Kiki-Jiki be in this deck?

[HammerAndSickled]

Kiki-Jiki is significantly worse. One additional mana, triple R, makes the combo a turn slower at BEST and makes it harder to keep up countermagic because modern has no free counters that are playable. Also, one of the biggest strengths of Exarch-Twin was that it dodged a single lightning bolt, whereas Kiki+anything, they just kill your Kiki in response. Also being a turn slower opens it up to dying to various other things, like Kolaghan's Command, or just getting raced because nearly every other deck in the format wins t4. There is a "control" deck that plays restoration Angels and kiki that's probably better but the deck kinda sucked in the first place for the reasons I stated.

[Octopusman]

I was considering getting into Modern because my girlfriend started playing Magic and it seemed like the more affordable option (compared to Legacy).

The Twin banning is having a chilling effect for me. I feel like it's arbitrary for them to decide that Twin is represented too much and therefore should be banned. I think Affinity had roughly the same representation and it goes unmentioned.

I don't feel comfortable buying into a format where they ban so subjectively. Writing this really helped me make up my mind. I think we'll go with Standard. If they reprint Force of Will and Wasteland, I expect revised blue duals to hit $500 due to increased interest so Legacy isn't really an option for her. There's a rumor they'll reprint some good Legacy cards, but that could cause the reserved list staples to become so expensive that either people will play crappy variants with budget cards or simply not play at all.

Another option is to get off of the internet and brew your own damn list. Play some Tier Infinite deck and tune it until it does well. Assuming you don't find some combo that is ban-worthy, it will likely not be represented enough to get banned. I wonder what it will take for people to brew more and netdeck less.

I feel sorry for everyone buying into Eldrazi right now for when the inevitable ban of Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple happens.

[iatee]

If you bought a T1 Modern deck a year ago or 2 years ago it's hard to come up w/ a situation where you've lost much money. Whereas you play Standard competitively, you will spend a lot of money.

It sucks to have your deck banned from under you, but playing Standard competitively is the most guaranteed money suck of all.