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Thread: Modern Banned List

  1. #701
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Why does no-one outside of pod main board any disenchant effects? The only decks they seem bad against are the GB AND the URW decks. Otherwise against most things they have some juicy targets, like pod and twin and such
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  2. #702
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Because Abrupt Decay is the only decent one that isn't dead in half of the matchups. Naturalize is bad because stuff like Junk, Burn, UWR, Scapeshift, and a slew of other tier 2 decks don't run anything that you'd hit. Against Twin if you have any creature removal it's actually better than an enchantment removal since they also play Kiki-Jiki. Pod wins half of their games without using their namesake card, so you don't really want a dead card against them, and if they play pod they get an activation out of it before you can do anything anyway.

  3. #703

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Because Abrupt Decay is the only decent one that isn't dead in half of the matchups. Naturalize is bad because stuff like Junk, Burn, UWR, Scapeshift, and a slew of other tier 2 decks don't run anything that you'd hit.
    Actually, Burn runs Eidolon, which is an Enchantment. That said, that's basically the only card in the deck it hits (unless they bring in Blood Moon), so it basically does nothing if they don't draw Eidolon.

    Against Twin if you have any creature removal it's actually better than an enchantment removal since they also play Kiki-Jiki.
    Enchantment destruction isn't that great against Twin, but it's not because of Kiki-Jiki (which some decks don't run, and the decks that do run him only play 1 or 2 copies). It's because Twin decks are relying less and less on the combo, especially postboard. That Disenchant starts looking a lot less impressive if they don't cast any targets for it, and it won't do anything to stop their Pestermite or Tarmogoyf from beating down on you.

  4. #704
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Actually, Burn runs Eidolon, which is an Enchantment. That said, that's basically the only card in the deck it hits (unless they bring in Blood Moon), so it basically does nothing if they don't draw Eidolon.
    This is nitpicking. Obviously you don't want enchantment hate against burn's 4-of eidolons. Some burn decks run Shrine of Burning Rage, but again, unless you have some really dead cards, you don't want something like naturalize.

    Enchantment destruction isn't that great against Twin, but it's not because of Kiki-Jiki (which some decks don't run, and the decks that do run him only play 1 or 2 copies). It's because Twin decks are relying less and less on the combo, especially postboard. That Disenchant starts looking a lot less impressive if they don't cast any targets for it, and it won't do anything to stop their Pestermite or Tarmogoyf from beating down on you.
    If we're nitpicky, removal isn't better than enchantment hate because of their beating plan, it's better than enchantment hate because, aside from being more versatile, it also 2 for 1's twin when they go to play their Splinter Twin on the combo creature.

    Also, post board many twins play Blood Moon, so even if they side out Splinter Twin it's possible you'd want the naturalize since most decks not running Blood Moon already get hit by it very hard.

  5. #705

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Maelstrom Pulse and Abrupt Decay are my usual Enchant/Articact removal options as a Jund player. I don't see too much that they don't hit. When I'm playing UTron, I count on my counter spells and repeal to get me past. UWR, I'm in the same boat with counter spells. I do have a friend running Dead Guy Ale who swears by his 1+1 MD/SB Disenchants.

  6. #706

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    This is nitpicking. Obviously you don't want enchantment hate against burn's 4-of eidolons. Some burn decks run Shrine of Burning Rage, but again, unless you have some really dead cards, you don't want something like naturalize.
    I know, and I agree. But I did want to point out that it isn't dead against Burn, just bad.

    Unless you're GR Tron, of course. Then Nature's Claim is astoundingly good against Burn, because even if they don't have Eidolon, you can just use it on your own artifacts to get yourself 4 life.

  7. #707
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewMyers View Post
    I do have a friend running Dead Guy Ale who swears by his 1+1 MD/SB Disenchants.
    I think this can be a right call in very specific metagames. You'd need to be pretty sure what you're facing though, which is impossible for larger tournaments.

  8. #708
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    If I were to maindeck a sideboard card it would be something much more broad, such as Engineered Explosives.

    On topic, is there anything worth banning currently? I don't really think so, even though I loathe Pod.

    To unban? Maybe ancestral visions or bloodbraid elf.
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  9. #709

    Re: Modern Banned List

    This is the worst format ever. I really wish they would unban everything. When Wizards said they were making a new format I was expecting something thriving with different decks like Legacy, like Extended 2007, alas they gave us Modern. It's been an obvious failure as they took it out of PT's.

    Hell I wish they would scrap Modern and just include Invasion block onwards, and then make some possible bans from there. I can see some culprits, but think about it. Brainstormless Miracles, TEPS, Dredge, Zoo, Goblin Bidding, Affinity, Delver Something, Elves, various non-Elves GSZ decks, Tron/Post, etc.

  10. #710

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanti View Post
    This is the worst format ever.
    And you say this based on... what? Presumably you dislike the banned list, but you don't make an argument.

    I really wish they would unban everything.
    You want Skullclamp unbanned? You actually think that card would in any way make for a healthy format?

    When Wizards said they were making a new format I was expecting something thriving with different decks like Legacy, like Extended 2007, alas they gave us Modern.
    Which it... is? What's the issue, the format does have a whole lot of different decks. Sure, some are more prominent than others, but that's true of Legacy or Extended 2007 or any format ever made.

    It's been an obvious failure as they took it out of PT's.
    And then put it back.

    But right, it's been an obvious failure. I mean, it's not like a Modern Grand Prix set a record for highest attended constructed GP ever. It's not like the price of staples have been going up noticeably this year, indicating increased interest in the format. Obviously, because Wizards of the Coast briefly took it out of Pro Tours, it's a failure.

    And honestly, a big reason they took it out of Pro Tours was because Modern doesn't move packs of the most recent sets. A whole lot of cards jumped up in price after the Pro Tour, but few of them were from the most recent sets. Granted, I think that's more the fault of the more recent sets for not giving much to the format, but that was a big part of the reason they did it.

    Hell I wish they would scrap Modern and just include Invasion block onwards, and then make some possible bans from there. I can see some culprits, but think about it. Brainstormless Miracles, TEPS, Dredge, Zoo, Goblin Bidding, Affinity, Delver Something, Elves, various non-Elves GSZ decks, Tron/Post, etc.
    I actually do wish they had started at an earlier point; there are too many interest cards from Odyssey and Onslaught that are excluded simply because they look different. I wouldn't mind the inclusion of Invasion either, but Invasion has fewer cards that I look at and think "man, it's really annoying this isn't Modern legal." Still, unlikely they'll be changing it now. I would like it if they were to reprint some of the "cool, but not good enough for Legacy" cards, though, like Astral Slide and Fact or Fiction.

  11. #711

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    There's already a format where you can cast Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, Glimpse, GSZ, etc... it's called Legacy. I have never understood the compulsion/desire/whatever from people wanting to turn Modern into Legacy-lite, which is exactly what it would be, just without the enforcers (Wasteland, Force of Will) around to keep things in check.
    Because I want to play cool and powerful cards without having to dump 2 grand into my mana base.

  12. #712

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Well, no changes this time around. Though I happened to be looking at some of the older posts, and it is amusing to see things like this being said:
    Quote Originally Posted by sublime love View Post
    Bitterblossem WILL NEVER BE UNBAND, sorry that card is way too good. (if they ever do, it will auto win PT)
    For a card that would automatically win the Pro Tour, it didn't even manage to get into the Top 8.

    Granted, it's easier to know things like this with the benefit of hindsight... but it's still a bit funny.

  13. #713
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    Well, no changes this time around.
    I'm disappointed in this as I find modern to be relatively stale. Maybe the addition of the onslaught fetches will shake things up some...

  14. #714
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    I'm disappointed in this as I find modern to be relatively stale.
    They should ban some things to increase diversity.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    They should ban some things to increase diversity.
    Obviously. Everyone knows that diversity increases with smaller sample sizes...

  16. #716
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I'm generally pro-banning to shake up a stale format where decks have settled at the top, but this time I like their decision. The fetch lands absolutely will change Modern, and maybe one or two other cards in the new set might do something, but really just stabilizing manabases of some decks should be enough to push them up to the top. I'm interested to see how much will change from this set.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    I'm generally pro-banning to shake up a stale format where decks have settled at the top
    The joke was that this has never worked.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by iamajellydonut View Post
    The joke was that this has never worked.
    Tell that to Zoo which dominated before GSZ got the axe (with nacatl, which clearly wasn't the problem).

  19. #719

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Tell that to Zoo which dominated before GSZ got the axe (with nacatl, which clearly wasn't the problem).
    I believe you mean "Punishing Fire," not GSZ. GSZ was not banned with Wild Nacatl, and in fact Zoo did not become dominant until after Green Sun's Zenith was banned (admittedly, it wasn't so much Green Sun's Zenith being banned that made Zoo dominant as the fact it was simultaneously banned with Blazing Shoal, Ponder, Preordain, Cloudpost, and Rite of Flame). In order to combat the dominance of Zoo, Punishing Fire and Wild Nacatl were then banned. Of course, as time has shown, Punishing Fire was the problem, not Wild Nacatl.

  20. #720
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    I believe you mean "Punishing Fire," not GSZ. GSZ was not banned with Wild Nacatl, and in fact Zoo did not become dominant until after Green Sun's Zenith was banned (admittedly, it wasn't so much Green Sun's Zenith being banned that made Zoo dominant as the fact it was simultaneously banned with Blazing Shoal, Ponder, Preordain, Cloudpost, and Rite of Flame). In order to combat the dominance of Zoo, Punishing Fire and Wild Nacatl were then banned. Of course, as time has shown, Punishing Fire was the problem, not Wild Nacatl.
    That too, I forgot about them having Punishing Fire too. GSZ pushed the format into "green or combo" though, at least from what I remember of my meta in the time. Maybe tron was a thing then too, I'm not sure. Either way, I'm not sure if someone was insinuating that bans don't shake up the format or what, but you are correct.

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