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Thread: Modern Banned List

  1. #61
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    It would be nice if people would consider what I say instead of dismissing it out of hand because they "know" too much to reassess things. But hey, I'm old, probably even senile. I'm not nearly as cool and trendy as our esteemed Mr. Lax. I haven't published an article since Brainburst shut down and I'm not a semi-pro on the SCG circuit. But I would like to point out that the last time Wizards created a new Eternal format, everyone on these forums "knew" that Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal and LED were going to lead to a busted Burning Long.format. Null Rod was supposed to be a 4 of main for everything. I called bullshit and went to work designing this aggro deck that people started calling Zoo. And 2 months later, I started working in another deck you might be familiar with, Deedstill. Everyone knew that Disk was better than Deed and that Monastery was useless. Oh, and i heard over and over about how bad Mystical Tutor was. I hear they ended up banning it a while back, so maybe I was right about it being good. But hey, that was a long time ago. I probably have no fucking clue anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
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  2. #62

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey View Post
    I'm not a semi-pro on the SCG circuit.
    I guess that makes two of us.

    Realistically, Preordain sees the same number of cards as Brainstorm and it is still amazing, so the number isn't the issue. UR Combo decks can run a ton of shuffle effects in fetch lands and still have functional low pain mana, so that isn't the issue. Brainstorm is even better at finding things than Ponder when you need two different cards, so that isn't the issue.

    The current format is very elegant in terms of how large it is. The swap to the modern card frame is a simple way to know what is up. You also don't have to deal with Port existing as a card, and I'm also fairly sure Foil would not be what you think it would be at all. Most of the combo decks can fight through a single hard counter fairly easily as is.

    Also, using the argument that one combo deck doesn't care about specific hate for another combo deck doesn't actually mean anything (PS: Interested in how you beat a Torpor Orb). The primary issue with Persist is that it is a three card combo with some odd tutor issues (ie. GSZ has to go for X=3 to find a sac outlet IIRC, you can't GSZ for a Persist guy that kills them on the spot, etc) that folds to the same removal as Twin, but doesn't have the blue spells.

    Your argument that control doesn't exist in the format is also wrong. The NLBlue deck from the PT actually is very reasonable against combo and Zoo. Losing to Post is acceptable at this juncture, especially as all of the combo decks now beat post with Storm having Ascension or EtW instead of just Swath Shot. The deck I played at the PT (Brian Demars' KavuGeddon deck) was also very definitely a control deck and could easily be tweaked to be a bit more hateful against combo given that it inherently is very good against Post and Zoo.

    That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Post go, if only because it strangles things a bit too much on the front end of design.
    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    Until I can play storm perfectly, I have not played it enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Kibler
    Funny enough I was 18 once too. It was sweet, but being me now is way sweeter.

  3. #63
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by AriLax View Post
    -snip-

    Watch the Ad Hominem, please! If you need a 'clue' then check out the site rules.
    -4eak


    Brainstorm would be the best card in the format by actual miles. It isn't even a discussion.

    I don't know if you've cast the card in the past decade or so, but the card is literally a fairy fucking godmother.

    Hmm, lets seem I can keep this sketchy hand or no. Well, got a Brainstorm. I'll cast it on two with a fetch up and oh look, everything worked out again. Man, good thing that was there.

    Oh wow, I've got two Twins/Pesters/too many Remands/Shoals. I'll Brainstorm and wow, did it again.

    You are actually arguing almost the same thing as Brainstorm not being good in Reanimator.

    Brainstorm is only useful in certain situations? Brainstorm is useful when you hand is not the stone cold nutter butter blade Ranchington Q. Farnsworth Esquire best. When Brainstorm is "dead", the game is already over.

    And 4 shuffle effects in Twin, which already ran 7-8 just to support Ponder? And Melira beats Twin, aka the slower combo deck beats the one with Remand that actually goes bigger than it unless they assemble the Finks half? In a world where Twin had access to MD Bolt and Firespout?

    Please, tell me, how does one open the portal to the world you live in? Is it permanent so you can run a hard line to access our internet, or does your satellite have the ability to broadcast tran-dimensionally?
    Dude, my tin-foil helmet lets me broadcast all over the place, including here! a little levity...

    As far as being fucking clueless goes, yeah, that's happened before. It's my prerogative, bestowed upon me by the driver of the short-bus I ride every day. Tasty windows...

    All I really meant to say (and if you read how 'soft' my language is, you would see that I'm not completely convinced nor am I making hard statements) is this: Ponder is better than Brainstorm on turn 1 in modern, theoretically. Fetchlands-into-shocklands causes life-loss which is significant in the format, which in turn causes the fetchland + Brainstorm engine slightly worse than a life-free one with Ponder. Instant speed is the nuts, especially in a control or combo shell. Some decks can make great use of it in modern, but not all decks. That's all I'm saying. There seems to be a significant legacy deck that doesn't use Brainstorm OR Ponder, something fish-flavored I believe. Not all decks playing blue in modern would want Brainstorm, at least I don't think so.

    But hey, I'm fucking clueless. I need to adjust my tin-foil helmet so I can get better reception over here...

    EDIT: I now realize that your comment may not have been intended for me, but maybe for SpikeyMikey. Either way, my post stands in direct opposition to your juvenile amount of chest hair.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 09-19-2011 at 10:46 AM.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Ponder is better than Brainstorm on turn 1 in modern, theoretically.
    How is it format dependent? Every good legacy player knows that you don't want to BS on turn 1 except if you're forced to (discard, spell that we need to counter, ...). I believe in metagame and stuff but library manipulation is the same whatever the format is. I can hear that Splinter Twin is very well curved and you probably want to play Spellskite on turn 2, a creature on turn 3 and Splinter Twin on turn 4. But it's the best case scenario and you can afford (and want) to lose one turn to be able to instant-speed brainstorm into a counterspell when you need it. Anyway, Brainstorm would probably come in in place of Preordain, so I don't see why you want to benchtest ponder against brainstorm.

    In every other deck, Brainstorm is just far better.

  5. #65
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    My post was mostly just to bait the discussion. I know Brainstorm is better than Ponder in almost every situation. The one time where I'd rather have Ponder over Brainstrom I have already described: turn 1 with a borderline opening hand. It gives me 2 chances to dig for land.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  6. #66
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes View Post
    I'm sorry, did Ari Lax just call someone fucking clueless in a thread about banned list proposals?

    Because I'm pretty sure this happened...
    http://www.thestarkingtonpost.com/articles/_/1519
    I just read this article...and I guess I'm not the only one that is fucking retarded. I laughed out loud at some of the suggestions (Wild Nacatl? Seriously?) I do have to give him a little slack though, as this was obviously printed pre-SotF banning.
    Brainstorm Realist

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  7. #67
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I have a feeling that Emrakul will see the banhammer tonight.

    Though I think Blightsteel Colossus will just take its place in a lot of ramp and cheat-into-play strategies.

    I don't think they'll ban any red rituals, especially when they just printed a red Dark Ritual/Cullling of the Weak in Innistrad.
    Last edited by (nameless one); 09-19-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
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  8. #68
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I have a feeling that Emrakul will see the banhammer tonight.

    Though I think Blightsteel Colossus will just take its place in a lot of ramp and cheat-into-play strategies.

    I don't think they'll ban any red rituals, especially when they just printed a red Dark Ritual/Cullling of the Weak in Innistrad.
    Fixed for you.

    It would be interesting to see them banning Emrakul, by doing which they acknowledge the boundary of fatty designs.

  9. #69
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc View Post
    Fixed for you.

    It would be interesting to see them banning Emrakul, by doing which they acknowledge the boundary of fatty designs.
    Thanks for fixing it.

    As for the combo decks in the format, I think cantrips have a more chance of getting banned, though that would also hurt control decks, which are already fighting an uphill battle.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  10. #70

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Aaaaand Nuked from orbit

  11. #71

    Re: Modern Banned List

    I was seriously going to take up Modern. But after the bannings I think I'll just stick to Legacy. Good job Wizards!

  12. #72
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by fyrisen View Post
    I was seriously going to take up Modern. But after the bannings I think I'll just stick to Legacy. Good job Wizards!
    Can you explain?

    The bans look equally restrictive to me. Pox, U-based control and mana ramp decks might see play. It should be more difficult for combo though. Only Splinter Twin seems to have the redundancy to survive the loss of the best cantrips.

  13. #73

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Zolek View Post
    Aaaaand Nuked from orbit
    ROFL. Pretty much this. I kinda expected this. Seriously though, Modern needs some time to adjust. I really hope they don't go ape-shit again and go ban crazy in December but the precedent is set: they probably will.
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

  14. #74
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I am surprised that they banned both Preordain AND Ponder. Leaving one without the other seems like a better option to me. Ponder was better in the combo decks, so let Preordain live in the format so control can at least have a semblance of the library manipulation it would need to function. Hell, just restrict both like Vintage does with Brainstorm/Ponder. Why always the ban? Why not pull out the restrict?

    Cloudpost makes sense, even if you don't agree. That card was like playing Tolarian Academy, and everyone knew it. Rite of Flame, ditto. It fueled storm like lighter fluid on charcoal, making their fundamental turn too fast for Wizards liking (turn 3 reliably rather than turn 4.) The cantrips just fed it even more.

    Blazing Shoal was a mistake, I think. That deck is already a glass cannon, so banning Blazing Shoal was a little over-the-top to me. I think infect will go back to G/u, similar to legacy. That seems ok, but Blazing Shoal wasn't broken, considering you had Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Rune Snag, and Mana Leak to combat it, all of which are splashable quite easily.

    We'll see if modern gets nuked from orbit. My gut says 'yes', but I'm hoping it isn't. I was so excited about the format...and it's just turning into a bad version of extended.
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  15. #75
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Blazing Shoal was a mistake, I think. That deck is already a glass cannon, so banning Blazing Shoal was a little over-the-top to me. I think infect will go back to G/u, similar to legacy. That seems ok, but Blazing Shoal wasn't broken, considering you had Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Rune Snag, and Mana Leak to combat it, all of which are splashable quite easily.
    Sudden Shock, Grim Lavamancer, Spellskite, Melira, Sylvok Outcast and to an extent Ethersworn Canonist. Permanent based solutions are much better against the deck. But, Marrow Shards gets an honorable mention since it also deals with EtW tokens.

    The "turn 4" combo rule seems pretty short-sighted for an eternal format. Banning Cloudpost would have likely been enough. Perhaps Rite of Flame since Yawgmoth's Flashback will be entering the format.
    Tusk up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Just fucking ban the 600 pound gorilla and be done with it. FFS

  16. #76
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Nice post, and include Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Smother, Dismember, Searing Blaze, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, and Rule of Law to that list, lol.

    I tend to agree with you, save I think axing ONE of the cantrips would have been enough (most likely Ponder and let Preordain live to see another day...)
    Brainstorm Realist

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  17. #77
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I am curious as to why they didn't just ban Vesuva... 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost really isnt even that good
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  18. #78

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by perm View Post
    I am curious as to why they didn't just ban Vesuva... 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost really isnt even that good
    4 cloudposts alone is still 16 mana. That is still a turn 4 or 5 emrakul if it goes off

  19. #79
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Sure, if you start the game with 4 cloudpost in your hand, but in magical godhand land there are much more broken things we can do. But maybe they didn't want to deny johnny's the opportunity to use vesuva in other cool ways
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  20. #80

    Re: Modern Banned List

    Pre-Titan, the card Cloudpost is fairly marginal. The deck was actually 100% a Titan deck, basically just Valakut. Without Vesuva, it still does mostly the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    Until I can play storm perfectly, I have not played it enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Kibler
    Funny enough I was 18 once too. It was sweet, but being me now is way sweeter.

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