It would be nice if people would consider what I say instead of dismissing it out of hand because they "know" too much to reassess things. But hey, I'm old, probably even senile. I'm not nearly as cool and trendy as our esteemed Mr. Lax. I haven't published an article since Brainburst shut down and I'm not a semi-pro on the SCG circuit. But I would like to point out that the last time Wizards created a new Eternal format, everyone on these forums "knew" that Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal and LED were going to lead to a busted Burning Long.format. Null Rod was supposed to be a 4 of main for everything. I called bullshit and went to work designing this aggro deck that people started calling Zoo. And 2 months later, I started working in another deck you might be familiar with, Deedstill. Everyone knew that Disk was better than Deed and that Monastery was useless. Oh, and i heard over and over about how bad Mystical Tutor was. I hear they ended up banning it a while back, so maybe I was right about it being good. But hey, that was a long time ago. I probably have no fucking clue anymore.
I guess that makes two of us.
Realistically, Preordain sees the same number of cards as Brainstorm and it is still amazing, so the number isn't the issue. UR Combo decks can run a ton of shuffle effects in fetch lands and still have functional low pain mana, so that isn't the issue. Brainstorm is even better at finding things than Ponder when you need two different cards, so that isn't the issue.
The current format is very elegant in terms of how large it is. The swap to the modern card frame is a simple way to know what is up. You also don't have to deal with Port existing as a card, and I'm also fairly sure Foil would not be what you think it would be at all. Most of the combo decks can fight through a single hard counter fairly easily as is.
Also, using the argument that one combo deck doesn't care about specific hate for another combo deck doesn't actually mean anything (PS: Interested in how you beat a Torpor Orb). The primary issue with Persist is that it is a three card combo with some odd tutor issues (ie. GSZ has to go for X=3 to find a sac outlet IIRC, you can't GSZ for a Persist guy that kills them on the spot, etc) that folds to the same removal as Twin, but doesn't have the blue spells.
Your argument that control doesn't exist in the format is also wrong. The NLBlue deck from the PT actually is very reasonable against combo and Zoo. Losing to Post is acceptable at this juncture, especially as all of the combo decks now beat post with Storm having Ascension or EtW instead of just Swath Shot. The deck I played at the PT (Brian Demars' KavuGeddon deck) was also very definitely a control deck and could easily be tweaked to be a bit more hateful against combo given that it inherently is very good against Post and Zoo.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing Post go, if only because it strangles things a bit too much on the front end of design.
Dude, my tin-foil helmet lets me broadcast all over the place, including here! a little levity...
As far as being fucking clueless goes, yeah, that's happened before. It's my prerogative, bestowed upon me by the driver of the short-bus I ride every day. Tasty windows...
All I really meant to say (and if you read how 'soft' my language is, you would see that I'm not completely convinced nor am I making hard statements) is this: Ponder is better than Brainstorm on turn 1 in modern, theoretically. Fetchlands-into-shocklands causes life-loss which is significant in the format, which in turn causes the fetchland + Brainstorm engine slightly worse than a life-free one with Ponder. Instant speed is the nuts, especially in a control or combo shell. Some decks can make great use of it in modern, but not all decks. That's all I'm saying. There seems to be a significant legacy deck that doesn't use Brainstorm OR Ponder, something fish-flavored I believe. Not all decks playing blue in modern would want Brainstorm, at least I don't think so.
But hey, I'm fucking clueless. I need to adjust my tin-foil helmet so I can get better reception over here...
EDIT: I now realize that your comment may not have been intended for me, but maybe for SpikeyMikey. Either way, my post stands in direct opposition to your juvenile amount of chest hair.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 09-19-2011 at 10:46 AM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
How is it format dependent? Every good legacy player knows that you don't want to BS on turn 1 except if you're forced to (discard, spell that we need to counter, ...). I believe in metagame and stuff but library manipulation is the same whatever the format is. I can hear that Splinter Twin is very well curved and you probably want to play Spellskite on turn 2, a creature on turn 3 and Splinter Twin on turn 4. But it's the best case scenario and you can afford (and want) to lose one turn to be able to instant-speed brainstorm into a counterspell when you need it. Anyway, Brainstorm would probably come in in place of Preordain, so I don't see why you want to benchtest ponder against brainstorm.
In every other deck, Brainstorm is just far better.
My post was mostly just to bait the discussion. I know Brainstorm is better than Ponder in almost every situation. The one time where I'd rather have Ponder over Brainstrom I have already described: turn 1 with a borderline opening hand. It gives me 2 chances to dig for land.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I have a feeling that Emrakul will see the banhammer tonight.
Though I think Blightsteel Colossus will just take its place in a lot of ramp and cheat-into-play strategies.
I don't think they'll ban any red rituals, especially when they just printed a red Dark Ritual/Cullling of the Weak in Innistrad.
Aaaaand Nuked from orbit
I was seriously going to take up Modern. But after the bannings I think I'll just stick to Legacy. Good job Wizards!
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
I am surprised that they banned both Preordain AND Ponder. Leaving one without the other seems like a better option to me. Ponder was better in the combo decks, so let Preordain live in the format so control can at least have a semblance of the library manipulation it would need to function. Hell, just restrict both like Vintage does with Brainstorm/Ponder. Why always the ban? Why not pull out the restrict?
Cloudpost makes sense, even if you don't agree. That card was like playing Tolarian Academy, and everyone knew it. Rite of Flame, ditto. It fueled storm like lighter fluid on charcoal, making their fundamental turn too fast for Wizards liking (turn 3 reliably rather than turn 4.) The cantrips just fed it even more.
Blazing Shoal was a mistake, I think. That deck is already a glass cannon, so banning Blazing Shoal was a little over-the-top to me. I think infect will go back to G/u, similar to legacy. That seems ok, but Blazing Shoal wasn't broken, considering you had Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Rune Snag, and Mana Leak to combat it, all of which are splashable quite easily.
We'll see if modern gets nuked from orbit. My gut says 'yes', but I'm hoping it isn't. I was so excited about the format...and it's just turning into a bad version of extended.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Sudden Shock, Grim Lavamancer, Spellskite, Melira, Sylvok Outcast and to an extent Ethersworn Canonist. Permanent based solutions are much better against the deck. But, Marrow Shards gets an honorable mention since it also deals with EtW tokens.
The "turn 4" combo rule seems pretty short-sighted for an eternal format. Banning Cloudpost would have likely been enough. Perhaps Rite of Flame since Yawgmoth's Flashback will be entering the format.
Nice post, and include Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Smother, Dismember, Searing Blaze, Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, and Rule of Law to that list, lol.
I tend to agree with you, save I think axing ONE of the cantrips would have been enough (most likely Ponder and let Preordain live to see another day...)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I am curious as to why they didn't just ban Vesuva... 4 cloudpost 4 glimmerpost really isnt even that good
I will make use of every tool that fate presents.
Sure, if you start the game with 4 cloudpost in your hand, but in magical godhand land there are much more broken things we can do. But maybe they didn't want to deny johnny's the opportunity to use vesuva in other cool ways
I will make use of every tool that fate presents.
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