Modern Banned List

[DLifshitz]

I actually wonder about that. The Eldrazi deck showed off, but it also did so well that it probably turned a lot of people off of the format. Selling product because it has cards that are powerful in a particular format isn't going to work if people are avoiding the format.

To their eternal misfortune, many if not most competitive or semi-competitive Magic players are too ambitious to quit when the going gets tough. Ban their decks, increase the pace of rotation, throttle back the reprints, eliminate a format, and they still keep coming back. I am guilty of this, too. I doubt that this PT is going to make a significant proportion of Modern players rethink their commitment to the format.

Even if they do, well, Modern players usually weren't the ones buying sealed product anyhow, and WotC have no Modern Masters planned for 2016.

On the other hand, the Standard people and the occasional singleton (EDH and so on) player watching the coverage will definitely overlook how Modern is managed, and will want to at least try out to play Eldrazi beatdown. (I know I would, if Standard wasn't a bottomless money drain.) And that of course means higher sales.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Even if they do, well, Modern players usually weren't the ones buying sealed product anyhow, and WotC have no Modern Masters planned for 2016.

I'm not sure this is true, while I don't know anyone who goes into a game shop and just straight up buys packs, I've been to multiple different weekly tournaments that pay out in packs for prizes. They usually give you the option to switch it into store credit at something like $2.50 per pack, but most players I see just crack open packs instead. Probably like a box and a half went out every tournament I went to, and that can really add up.

[Davran]

On the other hand, the Standard people and the occasional singleton (EDH and so on) player watching the coverage will definitely overlook how Modern is managed, and will want to at least try out to play Eldrazi beatdown. (I know I would, if Standard wasn't a bottomless money drain.) And that of course means higher sales.

As an exclusively EDH and limited player mildly interested in other constructed formats, I fit this demographic. I tried modern on several occasions (it's my LGS's other FNM format), got burned once due to a banning and burned again when the meta shifted after another banning made my fall back deck unplayable. I have little interest in buying in to Eldrazi (for the third time) only to get burned again when Eye of Ugin or Eldrazi Whatever gets banned and everything changes again.

The whole idea of modern was supposed to be a non-rotating format like legacy only without the reserved list. Instead of that, we absolutely have a rotating format that's managed via banning cards instead of rotating blocks. I have no interest in trying to gauge which deck is good but also not good enough to be affected by the ham-fisted ban decisions, especially when one of the criterion is better coverage.

[Paul7926]

I was one of the lucky ones as I sold my pod deck quite a while before it was banned and I owned Grixis Control rather than Splinter Twin when that got the ban hammer. I've managed to shift all of my modern cards now as I have no interest in a format where part of the meta-game is trying to guess which deck will be randomly destroyed next. Even though I sold the deck cheap it has completely funded my entry into another hobby that doesn't demand as much time & money. Having already fled Standard due to the massive cost of 'keeping up' my only connection to Magic now is my beloved Legacy Goblins deck. I don't mind having to pick up a copy or two of Warping Wail to test that.

I was initially quite disturbed at the dropping of Legacy by SCG (despite being a Brit and living in England so not going to actually play in one). I was worried about a loss of support and that official eyes would no longer look out for the format. Now I'm actively hoping that is exactly what will happen. Thanks Dr Garfield for a most extraordinary game. Thanks WOTC for some fun times since I started playing in Onslaught but I would prefer now for you and I to part company. I have my Legacy deck so that I can still play the game and I will buy the odd single now and again (obviously not from you) but I want no further part in supporting the company you have become. Too many bad decisions immediately on the back of other bad decisions, knee jerk reactions and treating your customers like naughty children.

[Tylert]

I play a tier 2 deck. No need to worry about the banning of a card... my deck won't get hurt... (Except if they ban the UWR manabase totally) :)
ANd I'm still having fun

[H]

Eye will probably get banned, but most certainly not while it is driving the sales of an in-print set.

Once Oath is out of print, expect a ban at the next available announcement.

[Davran]

Eye will probably get banned, but most certainly not while it is driving the sales of an in-print set.

Once Oath is out of print, expect a ban at the next available announcement.

I think this is a safe assumption. The real question is what the reasoning will be - will WotC write their "mia culpa", or will it be some BS about coverage again?

[Ace/Homebrew]

I play a tier 2 deck.

Yeah I feel safe with my deck choices (Eight Rack, G/R Scapeshift, Extra Turns).


If Splinter Twin were unbanned, would Eldrazi still be a boogie-man? Is it just as likely for WotC to admit a mistake and unban that card than to piss off people flocking to Eldrazi.dec?

[Admiral_Arzar]

This has been a problem that's presented itself since before Tron. There are no good ways to deal with nonbasic lands that break the format, and it's showing itself once more.

Tron has always been a problem in my opinion due to its ridiculous potential on turn 3, and no good land killing so that stuff like Blood Moon is a mere bump in the road. Amulet Bloom was slightly more ridiculous in that it could show its ridiculous potential on turn 2 (or even 1 with a nuts draw). That got a ban, but the ban doesn't fix the original problem. Now we're just seeing the same exact problem one more time with this stupid Eldrazi bullshits deck.

Eye of Ugin definitely needs to go, playing 2 mana mimics for free on turn 1 will be broken forever in this format, but that doesn't get to the root of it all. Give us a goddamn way to stop people from just assembling nonbasics so we can play a real format.

Legacy and Vintage have already died for me. Modern is on life support. I'll be watching closely to see if they actually fix it or I'm going to just be done with the game.

[Paul7926]

If Splinter Twin were unbanned, would Eldrazi still be a boogie-man? Is it just as likely for WotC to admit a mistake and unban that card than to piss off people flocking to Eldrazi.dec?

It's not just that, in my opinion, it didn't need banning it's the fact that the 'reason' was so blatantly not true. I think that did as much damage if not more than the actual banning.

[H]

I think this is a safe assumption. The real question is what the reasoning will be - will WotC write their "mia culpa", or will it be some BS about coverage again?

Probably yet another nonsense lip-service to some fabled "diversity" or something. At this point though, if you are actually believing what they put in the explanations though, you could probably freely substitute "an old wooden ship" for "diversity" and still get the same mileage out of their reasoning.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I think this is a safe assumption. The real question is what the reasoning will be - will WotC write their "mia culpa", or will it be some BS about coverage again?

"We gave everyone a chance to try to adapt for the last 9 months, but in the interest of format diversity, Eye of Ugin has been banned."

[Davran]

"We gave everyone a chance to try to adapt for the last 9 months, but in the interest of format diversity, Eye of Ugin has been banned."

Who knows, maybe Innistrad 2: Electric Boogaloo has something that gives the eldrazi players what for. If not, we can all rest assured the modern banlist will get a little longer I guess.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

salt.jpg

He is right — Modern really doesn't have great ways to reign in powerful manabases before turn three; it's pretty much Spreading Seas and Sea's Claim which are basically only usable in Merfolk or Ghost Quarter, which is a tough fit into most shells. Stuff like Crack the Earth and Boom//Bust are more gimmicky than anything else and turn 3 answers are often too slow; that's a nice Blood Moon you have on board, but I've already dropped Karn/Wurmcoil/TKS/Smasher and am beating down hard. And Moon needs to be paired with a clock; it's not a permanent solution to their landbase as once they destroy Moon, they're ready to roll again.

In Wizard's defense, I'm not really certain what they can do. Wasteland is clearly too powerful for Modern and any card would have to come through the Standard pipeline. I'd be interested in seeing what a card like this:

Manahole RR

Sorcery

Destroy target nonbasic land.

or even

Contrived Manahole

Sorcery

Destroy target nonbasic land without a basic land type.

could do, but I won't be holding my breath. Wizards really hates LD.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Yep, there really needs to be a penalty to playing nonbasics. I think Shock lands and fetch lands are pretty well balanced, since if you get too greedy you get a metagame full of burn decks to show you how wrong you are for going 5 color. Utility lands, especially ones that come into play untapped or produce mana (or "effective mana") right away have very little drawback to them. Waiting until turn 3 just isn't good enough, there needs to be something you can do before then, or we'll just have a nonstop line of decks that need to be banned. Started with 12 post, then it was amulet bloom, and it'll keep going until something really changes the fact that some nonbasics are just too good.

I don't really think Wasteland or an equivalent would help the format since the shocks are already a penalty. We just need something more geared towards the nonbasics that don't have strong penalties already associated with them.

[big_ticket]

let them enjoy eldrazi in modern while they can,

[Ricardio]

Probably yet another nonsense lip-service to some fabled "diversity" or something. At this point though, if you are actually believing what they put in the explanations though, you could probably freely substitute "an old wooden ship" for "diversity" and still get the same mileage out of their reasoning.

haha! Anchorman quote 10/10

They wont ban it as long as it keeps making them money.
In order of significance to wotc: Standard, EDH, draft, whatever else is left. I am almost positive they don't know the name of the formats.

[H]

haha! Anchorman quote 10/10

They wont ban it as long as it keeps making them money.
In order of significance to wotc: Standard, EDH, draft, whatever else is left. I am almost positive they don't know the name of the formats.

I think a prevailing theory is that the print run is about 6 months? So, chances are we have 6 months of Eldrazi dominance, unless people are actually smart and start meta-gaming for the deck (then again, I don't know if you can do this and still beat the usual Affinity/Infect/Tron/Company decks too).

The hierarchy of formats though is what sells the most to the least. Limited moves the most product, followed by Standard. EDH/Casual is next and then the pandering of things to Modern. There is no real attention payed to Legacy or Vintage. For every Legacy/Vintage player there are probably 1,000 Standard players and 2,000 Limited players. There are most Casual players then all the other formats put together, but they don't necessarily buy things consistently.

Wizards doesn't care about formats. They care about selling sealed product. They will pander to whatever format happens to lead to selling the most product. Modern is not that format.

[maharis]

FWIW I think BW tokens is a good call right now, especially since Twin is gone and you don't have to buy your $40 Auriok Champions to compete (and can safely cast a lingering souls on turn 3).

You get virtual card advantage by turning all your cards into multiple cards-- Lingering Souls is 4 cards, Bitterblossom is a bunch of cards, planeswalkers like Sorins or Elspeths produce a lot of virtual cards -- making point removal soft against you. You get access to all the BW disruption which is the best suite in modern. You have tons of blockers for the aggro-combo decks like Affinity and Infect until you stabilize and win with a Shambling Vent. And finally, most tokens fly so you can go over the top of the land-based Eldrazi and green creature decks like Company.

Tron is probably tough sledding, but no deck has all perfect matchups. Burn can go either way, especially if you get a Sorin online with some lifelink. Taking twin out of the arena makes this deck pretty good though, I believe.

On the actual topic, it should've been obvious that this would happen, they put "colorless" riders on Eye and Temple so you couldn't ramp into the original Eldrazi brood like Emrakul's Hatcher then one of the original Titans too easily. Of course on their own cards like Emrakul's Hatcher are total dreck, so it wouldn't have mattered really; but now that the Eldrazi are all colorless and souped up, 4 or 5 cmc might as well be 2 or 3 functionally (compare Brain Maggot to Thought-Knot). Eye will be banned and I expect it to be at the next update because this Eldrazi deck is pushing way more decks out of the meta than DRS jund or Cruise delver ever did.

Honestly, I wish they'd decide to power up the format instead and unban something like 10 cards. Cantrips, depths, DRS, dread return, twin, stoneforge, sword of the meek, summer bloom, a ritual, maybe glimpse, top. You'd get a wider range of decks, even though games might not last till turn 4.

[rufus]

FWIW I think BW tokens is a good call right now, especially since Twin is gone and you don't have to buy your $40 Auriok Champions to compete (and can safely cast a lingering souls on turn 3).

....

At least in the short term, you have to have a good match-up against the eldrazi meance, and I don't think the tokens do well against the eldrazi. Cards like Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher are pretty challenging for the token deck's "value" plan to keep up with until late in the game.

I would be looking for something that attacks along a different dimension. Maybe something with Ghostly Prison, or Magus of the Moat could work, or some kind of Painter's Servant combo.