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Thread: Modern Banned List

  1. #941
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    Just curious.
    Why don't you guys go to the MtGSalvation Modern banlist discussion which is much more active than this one?
    I'll link it below:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...-4-2016-eye-of
    There are about 298,553 reasons not to do that.
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  2. #942
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    Just curious.
    Why don't you guys go to the MtGSalvation Modern banlist discussion which is much more active than this one?
    I'll link it below:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...-4-2016-eye-of
    ....or we can promote discussion on this forum and grow it instead of diving into the cesspool that is MTGSalvation's forums.

    ...

    Anyway, I see the Thopter/Sword combo as a fantastic addition to Modern, as it brings out at least 1-2 new viable decks. It's a new option in a format that is littered with overlapping linear strategies, while not being overpowered because of the splash hate for Affinity and graveyard decks. But at the very least it adds a few new wrinkles to the format. I suspect there will be at least one straight UB Tezz list that does well and one UBx Tezz. My money is on Grixis, because holy moley Ghirapur Aether Grid is stupid good with this combo.

    However as good as the combo is, the absolute best answers for it didn't exist when it dominated Extended (not to mention that deck ran another combo that ignored artifact hate entirely). The fact that people moan about Ensnaring Bridge, Spellskite, and friends is laughable because they have been staples in the format for a while now, and as such people should deal with them accordingly. If anything, it will just diversify the hate used. Stony Silence is still the stone cold nuts against any of these decks, but sweepers like Creeping Corrosion, Hurkyl's Recall, Shatterstorm, Fracturing Gust, etc. will only increase in play as well.

  3. #943
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Yeah, Stony Silence definitely gets a boost, which is nuts considering how prevalent it's already in sbs. Perhaps Rest in Peace sees uptick? RiP "deals" with Thopter Sword, PiF Storm, Melira Company, Living End quite well. If the BGx Tarmogoyf decks see resurgence, it's playable vs them too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Rach View Post
    And format warping itself isn't necessarily a bad thing for that matter.

  4. #944
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Yeah, Stony Silence definitely gets a boost, which is nuts considering how prevalent it's already in sbs. Perhaps Rest in Peace sees uptick? RiP "deals" with Thopter Sword, PiF Storm, Melira Company, Living End quite well. If the BGx Tarmogoyf decks see resurgence, it's playable vs them too.
    RIP is playable but it only truly neuters goyf and gives little disruption to their strategy as well as being super draw dependant because if they don't draw goyfs and kill you with everything else, you are the one resting in peace. I think rip is a bad card in modern because as weak as the cards are, most decks use the gy to some extant. those that don't are either poorly constructed or built on a simple, linear strategy to win the game combo style. gy is a resource that goes unused most often in modern and rip isn't at its best. cards like leyline of the void are also just not where you want to be unless more decks like living end and grixis control continue going the way they are. you 15 in modern are super stretched so each card has to be at its best or you are wasting the slot. Stony silence will be a hotter than previously commodity if people jam thopter/sword hard but what will people do to curb the potential INFINITE ancestral visions everyone assumes they will have to trudge through? Grab your ricochet traps, ladies and gents, we finna wrangle some visions of the ancestral variety.

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  5. #945
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    Just curious.
    Why don't you guys go to the MtGSalvation Modern banlist discussion which is much more active than this one?
    I'll link it below:
    http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...-4-2016-eye-of
    I do, but you need to wear a mental condom when you go to that site.

  6. #946
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    Im personally wondering about how to take Jund down a notch from its current 10% meta share as Tier 1 without much collateral damage if any.

    I get that in both Legacy and Modern it is the "50-50/benchmark" deck, but the fact you can fine tune it to any meta to give you a slight advantage, especially multiplied by the popularity of the deck itself, and you get something like the following.

    http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...acuse&limit=50

    That's 3 Jund in top 8 and 5 in top 16.

    I wanna say Liliana of the Veil, but I'm not so sure.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Call me crazy, but I've always wanted Tarmogoyf gone from Modern. Anyway, it seems like Jund just got Grim Flayer and uses it to some success and I think we should wait for the next block to see if things stay the same.
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  8. #948
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Liliana's too fair and easy enough to hate, just play something like Obstinate Baloth and watch them cry.

    Tarmogoyf I'd agree with but I think any random bannings on non-linear decks are going to cause way more turmoil than they're worth.
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  9. #949
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I think banning something out of one of the very few fair decks in Modern is crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber View Post
    I think banning something out of one of the very few fair decks in Modern is crazy.
    Out of curiosity which archetypes would you consider unfair?

    According to Modern Nexus's metagame results, the only Tier 1 decks I'd worry about being unfair are Dredge and Infect.

  11. #951
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    I think modern needs more cards not less.
    I can't see how killing a deck would improve the format right now.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    To be clear, I don't think Jund is a problem. I just never liked Tarmogoyf in the format, period.
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  13. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    I think modern needs more cards not less.
    I can't see how killing a deck would improve the format right now.
    Jund is resilent as all hell: it already lost BBE and PFire and is still commanding a significant 10% portion of the overall metagame. I doubt losing either Lili 2.0 or Goyf would kill it (well maybe Goyf, but Goyf is in practically every noncombo green deck in modern so that is more of a mass deckicide).

    I agree more cards would be nice, but right now they should have a target painted on Jund and the various flavors of aggro, whether they create new cards or ban old ones.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Fire took a hit thanks to Zoo, not Jund in Modern.

    Jund is unlikely to see another hit in the format. It's a creature centric deck, just what Wizards wants.
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner View Post
    Out of curiosity which archetypes would you consider unfair?

    According to Modern Nexus's metagame results, the only Tier 1 decks I'd worry about being unfair are Dredge and Infect.
    I don't know the best way to describe fair vs. unfair, but I think the linearity of a deck is a decent way to look at it. How well rounded a deck is in general. Decks that don't seek out slowing down an opponent's gameplan might be the best metric, but also the ones that just slightly stall until they win (Scapeshift, sometimes storm).

    Affinity is linear, its only purpose is to overwhelm the board and beat you to death with attacking. It can't win through other means, and has little to no disruption in its gameplan.

    Dredge is linear, its gameplan has no consideration of the opponent's gameplan, and only really interacts with conflagrate (but normally that just goes face).

    Infect, Burn, Storm, Scapeshift, Through the Breach Decks.

    That's all I can think of right now. I by no means think things should be banned from these decks I'm just listing the unfair decks. Coincidentally, these decks can all lose to a single sideboard card, which keeps them in check (they'll have their own sideboard to fight yours, but if you can land a single card and protect it they usually can't beat you), and also separates linear decks from well-rounded ones. If the format has too many consistent linear decks then we start to run into a big problem, however, since even though you have the ability to beat any of them through sideboarding, you have to metagame correctly or get lucky matchups to not just straight up lose. That can be really frustrating, and in general makes formats less fun.
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  16. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post

    I don't know the best way to describe fair vs. unfair, but I think the linearity of a deck is a decent way to look at it. How well rounded a deck is in general. Decks that don't seek out slowing down an opponent's gameplan might be the best metric, but also the ones that just slightly stall until they win (Scapeshift, sometimes storm).

    Affinity is linear, its only purpose is to overwhelm the board and beat you to death with attacking. It can't win through other means, and has little to no disruption in its gameplan.

    Dredge is linear, its gameplan has no consideration of the opponent's gameplan, and only really interacts with conflagrate (but normally that just goes face).

    Infect, Burn, Storm, Scapeshift, Through the Breach Decks.

    That's all I can think of right now. I by no means think things should be banned from these decks I'm just listing the unfair decks. Coincidentally, these decks can all lose to a single sideboard card, which keeps them in check (they'll have their own sideboard to fight yours, but if you can land a single card and protect it they usually can't beat you), and also separates linear decks from well-rounded ones. If the format has too many consistent linear decks then we start to run into a big problem, however, since even though you have the ability to beat any of them through sideboarding, you have to metagame correctly or get lucky matchups to not just straight up lose. That can be really frustrating, and in general makes formats less fun.
    That makes sense ... kinda reminds me of what someone said about how having a diverse metagame was bad. Of course that was pertaining to Yu-Gi-Oh! and its ridiculously fast-paced meta, but I believe it could apply to linear decks in Magic as well regardless of format.

    In that case, Jund might be the backbone of Modern in a way that Miracles is kinda defining backbone of Legacy: you play it, best it, or best whatever bests it.

    As such I believe the Modern ban list is fine except maybe Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon. Yes it's a sideboard strategy most of the time, but I would much rather have a reprint of Wasteland in a basics matter block: something that is less of a universal lockdown piece given the Modern metagame and its Turn 3/4 soft-rule and more of tempo-piece.

    If not that then maybe a sorcery that's a backwards Path to Exile.

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    Re: Modern Banned List

    Got a question for the table.

    I don't play Modern much anymore. There are two stores locally that run it and I have been to both for Modern once each over the last month and a bit. At both those stores though people are arguing that Dredge needs to take a hit. This is interesting, because it's coming from the "Competitive" store and the "Laid back" store. The two never tend to agree with the other.

    Now being more or less out of the loop on all topics Modern, is Dredge really an issue? I don't know but with GP Brisbane coming up next February I should look at Modern with a critical eye and plan ahead. Are people just pissed about the new kid on the block or is this a real problem for the format?
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  18. #958

    Re: Modern Banned List

    @ Dice_Box

    Dredge is a problem at my meta.

    Edit
    As for specific cards, and the current meta why are the 5 artifact lands still banned again?

    What about chrome mox? It would be great to have a real mana rock for my tron deck.
    Opal is only useful for affinity and barely usable for the near useless tezzerator.

    All I know is that once I build a deck I like that a "top" deck something gets banned.

    I bet if I got the extra cards I need to make my legacy affinity a modern legal version something will get banned in it.

  19. #959
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    Re: Modern Banned List

    The deck is really powerful, no denying that, but if people want to beat it they can beat it. The problem with this is people will be packing so much GY hate it pushes a lot of other decks out of the format. Modern has always had a strong reliance on the GY, but never enough for people to be playing too much, it's usually stuff like Snapcaster, Goyf, Unburial Rites etc. I'd like Dredge to take a hit personally. Not because it's insanely broken (though it's maybe the DTB atm), but for format diversity, to quote WotC.
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    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #960

    Re: Modern Banned List

    I've read a few reports of modern dredge where the opponents hate did nothing to hinder the dredge player from winning.

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