[SCD] Curse of Stalked Prey

[Mr. Safety]

Curse of Stalked Prey
Enchantment - Aura Curse
Enchant player
Whenever a creature deals combat damage to enchanted player, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.

Is this a potentially great pump effect for a 1-drop based Zoo? I know Tarmogoyf is the traditional 2-drop, but most folks don't pack enchantment hate vs. zoo. Considering the amount of quality 1-drops in modern for zoo (Wild Nacatl, Loam Lion, Kird Ape, Steppe Lynx, Tattermunge Maniac, Goblin Guide) could this be good?

[rufus]

... could this be good?

Seems pretty win-more to me.

[Mr. Safety]

I was actually thinking it would shine best in the zoo mirror. When your 1-mana Kird Ape is as big as their Tarmogoyf, you can drop more 1-mana dudes and out-muscle them.

Your removal gets really good when all your creatures become a Whirling Dervish, too.

I probably should have premised this better: what if you have zero Tarmogoyfs, would a high density of 1-drop beef along with this be worth playing?

[3eowulf]

But you have to consider that also the opponent's removal gets much better, since it dispatches a threat AND blanks this card.

[Mr. Safety]

Nicely put, but I think if you are loading up on 1-mana dudes, you're only looking for early pressure and then finish with burn. I'm currently playing 12 burn spells maindeck AND 2-3 Grim Lavamancers. The ability to get a little more mileage out of early 1-drops is appealing to me, allowing me to save up my burn for removal or late game reach.

I have to say that you really have me thinking though...having a blank card in zoo is just bad, bad, bad. I think the only cards that can get away with being a non-threat are Path to Exile maindeck and targeted hate in the sideboard.

[perm]

But you have to consider that also the opponent's removal gets much better

that's a borderline sunk cost fallacy, your creatures are equally prone to removal whether you have this card or not. You aren't going to put this in a deck where this could possibly be a dead card due to removal. 26+ creatures

[Mr. Safety]

I was just thinking along the same lines...sure a dude may die, but when I'm playing 23-26 dudes chances are good I'll get more, lol.

I think it could work well...lots of White Weenie decks use Honor of the Pure, and Tempered Steel is pretty decent, too. I think with a 1-drop focus and this enchantment, it could work.

Potential List:

1-Drop Zoo

Creatures - 24
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Kird Ape
4x Loam Lion
4x Grim Lavamancer

Spells - 16
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Rift Bolt
3x Curse of Stalked Prey
4x Path to Exile

Lands - 19
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Arid Mesa
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Scalding Tarn
3x Stomping Ground
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Mountain

[3eowulf]

that's a borderline sunk cost fallacy, your creatures are equally prone to removal whether you have this card or not. You aren't going to put this in a deck where this could possibly be a dead card due to removal. 26+ creatures

I never said the card makes your creatures more prone to removal, I stated that it can invalidate two cards at once. And even in an hypotetical deck with a high creature count (26+) can still be dead due to removal and blockers.

Obviously I'm not saying to dismiss it just for that, but keep the argument in mind.

[TsumiBand]

If you really want to milk this card it seems like it would get more mileage from a deck that just spits out a billion tokens. Battle Screech, Spectral Procession, guys with evasion so the card doesn't just turn into a tempo sink when they block and kill your dude. Maybe some of the fair-to-undercosted doublestrikers like Boros Swiftblade and Mirran Crusader for double the +1/+1.

All things being equal though, it seems a Crusade effect that doesn't work for two turns. It's kind of the worst of both worlds; bad Crusade that needs to connect, and it's got the "Slith Firewalker" damage, again because a creature needs to hit for it to work and because the damage payoff isn't immediate. It's neat, but probably win-more at best.

[rufus]

All things being equal though, it seems a Crusade effect that doesn't work for two turns. It's kind of the worst of both worlds; bad Crusade that needs to connect, and it's got the "Slith Firewalker" damage, again because a creature needs to hit for it to work and because the damage payoff isn't immediate. It's neat, but probably win-more at best.

Yeah. I wonder how it works as support piece for some kind of aggro/persist deck like [cards]Meliar, Sylvoc Outcast[/cars], with something like Sage of Fables,Novijen Sages or Mindless Automaton, but they all look pretty weak.

Does it trigger twice for double-strike critters?

[Roman]

Does it trigger twice for double-strike critters?

yes

[Koby]

The important question should be:
Can this card help you win faster with the creatures already available to Zoo?

This eats up the critical turn in which you would be removing blockers or overrunning the board with 2 more 1-drops (Kird Apes/Nacatl/Lavamancer). I don't think that casting this on turn 2 would help you to win faster, all other aspects being equal.

[Mr. Safety]

The important question should be:
Can this card help you win faster with the creatures already available to Zoo?

This eats up the critical turn in which you would be removing blockers or overrunning the board with 2 more 1-drops (Kird Apes/Nacatl/Lavamancer). I don't think that casting this on turn 2 would help you to win faster, all other aspects being equal.

This is the most useful comment so far. Appreciate that one...

Late game, you want bigger beef (Knights) and early game you want cheap beef. In the mid-game you want mana open for burn/removal so your early dudes can get through.

I remember considering Umezawa's Jitte for an extended zoo deck ages ago, and a good friend (user name jandax) said this (roughly):

"Jitte is not as powerful in zoo as it is in something like faeries. Two mana to play it and two more to equip. You could play up to 4 creatures in that amount of time, or some mix of creatures/removal/burn. For faeries it's a 4-mana mid-game all-star, because they need it."

I'm not saying Curse of Stalked Prey is comparable to jitte in power level, I'm just saying the mana cost for a delayed effect (that might not matter) is too much risk. Opportunity cost is just too high. I think for zoo, CoSP is out.

Now...someone mentioned Slith Firewalker. Would this work in a haste-enabled RDW setup? Goblin Guide, Slith Firewalker? I guess I want this card to be good, but it's starting to look like casual material the more I think/discuss it.

[AriLax]

So...

I have to hit them three times with two guys for this to do more damage than an Incinerate?

So...

If they got hit three times with two guys and then didn't die when I'm playing Zoo....

DID IT.

(Even with two two power guys, the relative damage is 15 vs. 16 comparing this to literal Incinerate. They should be dead regardless and this card does about 0 otherwise).

[Maveric78f]

Seems pretty win-more to me.

Seems pretty lose-more to me.

[rufus]

Seems pretty lose-more to me.

Is there a difference?

[Maveric78f]

Is there a difference?

Vacuity says no.

[Mr. Safety]

So...

I have to hit them three times with two guys for this to do more damage than an Incinerate?

So...

If they got hit three times with two guys and then didn't die when I'm playing Zoo....

DID IT.

(Even with two two power guys, the relative damage is 15 vs. 16 comparing this to literal Incinerate. They should be dead regardless and this card does about 0 otherwise).

Well stated...if nothing else comes out of this thread, maybe a few other folks will realize that Curse of Stalked Prey is a casual card and does *not* belong in competitive decks.

Totally worth the 20 or so minutes I've spent (total) on this discussion, for sure.