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Thread: [Deck] Goblins

  1. #21
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hey thought I might post this deck for you guys. With some initial testing this has been doing really well for me. can pull off some quick kills before the opponent can do very much.

    Gobs:

    16 Mountain

    2 Greater Gargadon
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Goblin Bushwhacker
    4 Goblin Guide
    2 Simian Spirit Guide

    4 Empty the Warrens
    4 Seething Song
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Goblin Grenade
    3 Rift Bolt
    3 Lightning Bolt
    Last edited by Maagler; 12-19-2011 at 03:54 PM.

  2. #22

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Is that list 60 cards?
    I'm guessing that it might be missing some land - with the right amount, that list looks explosive!

  3. #23
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Yeah I forgot two lands and the goblin guides. fixed that. I am having a little trouble coming up with a side for this though anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking maybe Leyline of Sanctity, but I am unsure what else to add. I have found that this deck does the best against control decks, but does poorly against things that can produce a lot of big blockers or things that gain life. there must be something that prevents lifegain. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Maagler; 12-20-2011 at 10:03 AM.

  4. #24

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    How big is your average EtW? Seems interesting.

  5. #25
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Depends on the hand. Its usually between six and eight, but with the probes and suspended stuff i have gotten it much larger. I actually got a first turn kill yesterday, but that was with an exceedingly rare hand.

  6. #26
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Here's what i've been working on all month long.

    3 warren instigator
    4 goblin guide
    4 goblin chieftain
    4 goblin king
    4 siege gang commander
    4 goblin wardriver
    4 mogg war marshall
    3 goblin bushwacher
    1 magus of the moon

    4 bloodmoon
    4 goblin granade
    4 lightning bolt

    17 mountain

    SB
    3 surgical extraction
    4 dismember
    3 shattering spree
    3 pithing needle
    2 (meta call)
    TJB

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  7. #27
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by paeng4983 View Post
    Here's what i've been working on all month long.

    3 warren instigator
    4 goblin guide
    4 goblin chieftain
    4 goblin king
    4 siege gang commander
    4 goblin wardriver
    4 mogg war marshall
    3 goblin bushwacher
    1 magus of the moon

    4 bloodmoon
    4 goblin granade
    4 lightning bolt

    17 mountain

    SB
    3 surgical extraction
    4 dismember
    3 shattering spree
    3 pithing needle
    2 (meta call)
    Only 3 Warren Instigators and no Vial, but a full 4 Siege Gangs... on 17 lands?
    Quote Originally Posted by Draener View Post
    You know who thinks it's sweet to play against 8 different decks in an 8 round tournament? People who don't like to win, or people that play combo. This is not EDH; Legacy is a competitive environment, and it should reward skill - more so than it does.
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  8. #28

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I've been having a lot of fun (and success) on MWS with this list:

    Lands (20):

    8 Mountain
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Steam Vents

    Creatures (32):

    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Tattermunge Maniac
    4 Frenzied Goblin
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Dragon Fodder
    4 Goblin Bushwhacker
    4 Goblin Wardriver
    4 Goblin Chieftain

    Burn (8):

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Goblin Grenade

    SB (15):

    3 Blood Moon
    3 Relic of Progenitus
    3 Shattering Spree
    4 Spell Pierce
    2 Permafrost Trap

    Without top of the curve card advantage engines like Goblin Matron/Ringleader, I think for Goblins to be viable it has to be based around speed. I would say average goldfish would be turn 4, but it's also surprisingly resilient (to spot removal, at least). I've had a few games where people have played a bunch of spot removal and I've gotten in for a few points with just a couple of goblin tokens a turn, and eventually finished with a slurry of burn. I'm playing around with the sideboard right now, there are so many different splashes you could make. White for Burrenton-Forge Tender/Path to Exile? Green for Ancient Grudge? Black for Thoughtseize? Blue for what I have now? A combination of the above?

    What do you guys think?

  9. #29
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Here's what I've been working on recently:

    Mainboard:
    4x Goblin Guide
    4x Goblin Bushwhacker
    4x Goblin Chieftain
    4x Warren Instigator
    4x Goblin Wardriver
    4x Hearthfire Hobgoblin
    4x Spikeshot Elder

    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Goblin Grenade
    4x Brute Force

    16x Mountain
    4x Teetering Peaks

    Sideboard:
    3x Leyline of Punishment
    3x Dragon's Claw
    3x Goblin Ruinblaster
    3x Relic of Progenitus
    3x Shattering Spree

    The sideboard is a little tentative so far, but the list is loosely based around an old extended list that I saw that was around right when after Extended was snipped and right before Modern came into being. Right now I like how the list plays, but might exchange Spikeshot Elder for Tattermunge Maniac for some more aggression. Teetering Peaks and/or Brute Force plus a double striker is just insanely fun and good and gives the deck a huge kill range. You're opponent's at 15? No problem. Hearthfire Hobgoblin+Brute Force+Goblin Grenade. Now he's toast.

  10. #30
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Here's my version:

    4x Goblin Guide
    4x Goblin Bushwhacker
    4x Tattermunge Maniac
    2x Spikeshot Elder
    4x Warren Instigator
    4x Goblin Wardriver
    3x Mogg War Marshal
    4x Goblin Chieftain

    4x Lighting Bolt
    4x Pillar of Flame
    3x Goblin Grenade

    16x Mountain
    3x Teetering Peaks
    1x Keldon Megaliths

    Sideboard:
    4x Leyline of Punishment
    3x Blood Moon
    3x Goblin Ruinblaster
    2x Shattering Spree
    2x Relic of Progenitus
    1x Grafdigger's Cage

    I like the idea of Pillar of Flame in here. Kitchen Finks is the premier 3 drop in the format, and 4 life plus a blocker that trades twice with any member of our team is a little annoying. Plus, exiling Finks and/or Murderous Redcap is quite relevant against Pod.

    Brute Force is cute, but as long as Path to Exile is the removal of choice I'd rather be sending my "burn" directly at the player than setting up a nice neat 2 for 1.

    Hearthfire Hobgoblin is an interesting choice. What about Boggart Ram-Gang? Is a 3/3 with haste more relevant than a 2/2 double strike?

    The sideboard is a little shaky...I can't decide between Ruinblaster and Blood Moon. I think in the match-ups where we want some sort of land control effect, Blood Moon is strictly better...but Blood Moon doesn't attack.

    I definitely think we want 4x Leyline though - there's really no other way we can beat Proc.

    I also think some number of Pyroclasm/Volcanic Fallout is worth considering. It absolutely wrecks plenty of decks in the format, and it's easy for us to play around if we know it's coming. Plus, Pyroclasm into a Goblin Guide or other hasty goblin can be pretty back breaking.

  11. #31
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    I feel that Brute Force is too good to pass up in a deck like this. The potential to have Lightning Bolt 5-8 or double Bolt is insane. I'm not really not worrying about Path too much with it though because in testing, most people will blow all their Paths much earlier than you would be using Brute Force. People are more apt to spend their Path on a Goblin Guide early than to leave that Guide sitting around and using it on something else.

    About the Boggart Ram-Gang, I have thought about using it, but not for the haste, which is nice to have, but for the Wither. Cards with Wither destroy Persist creatures like Finks. If I'm using Brute Force though, then it is nowhere near as good as the Hobgoblin.

    Last night I changed the sideboard around after I found that the Burn matchup is favorable again with the addition of the Hobgoblin and Brute Force. Here's what I'm running now:

    4x Leyline of Punishment
    4x Relic of Progenitus
    4x Goblin Ruinblaster
    3x Shattering Spree

    Ruinblaster vs Blood Moon is something that I'm testing right now. It's sort of like having tempo vs having a soft lock. Smash to Smithereens is another card that I've been thinking to try out in place of Shattering Spree. The Spree is most likely better, but the 3 damage and Instant speed from Smash might be worth it.

  12. #32
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    I feel that Brute Force is too good to pass up in a deck like this. The potential to have Lightning Bolt 5-8 or double Bolt is insane.
    If you're looking for double bolt, just run something like Incinerate. It's much more flexible in that you can always shift to burn mode if the ground gets clogged up, or proactively remove problematic creatures that your opponent may not otherwise block with (i.e. Dark Confidant, a flipped Delver etc.) I think the instances where you really "get them" with a Brute Force are far less common than the times 3 direct damage is useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    About the Boggart Ram-Gang, I have thought about using it, but not for the haste, which is nice to have, but for the Wither. Cards with Wither destroy Persist creatures like Finks.
    Not really though - Finks is a 3/2, so it will always trade for your Ram-gang unless it already had a counter on it. In that situation, your opponent traded his creature for an effective 5 life plus your guy. Using a Brute Force in this situation also works out in your opponent's favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    Ruinblaster vs Blood Moon is something that I'm testing right now. It's sort of like having tempo vs having a soft lock. Smash to Smithereens is another card that I've been thinking to try out in place of Shattering Spree. The Spree is most likely better, but the 3 damage and Instant speed from Smash might be worth it.
    Ruinblaster vs. Moon is probably meta dependent. There are certain decks that Moon just straight up beats (i.e. Jund), while in other cases Ruinblaster is enough.

    Smash to Smithereens is a nice choice if all you're really worried about is the occasional Sword of X and Y. I prefer spree because it is nigh uncounterable, and it gives us a way to break up Metalcraft in the affinity match-up. If you're going to stick to the Brute Force + Beater approach, Smash will probably give you the little bit of extra reach you need in certain matches. You'll just have to be aware of what the real threats are instead of just using it as a one sided wrath.

    One last thing that occurred to me is that this deck probably wants a playset of Cavern of Souls. There's no real Wasteland effect in this format, and they're still mountains under a Blood Moon. There's really no reason not to run them.

  13. #33
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    If you're looking for double bolt, just run something like Incinerate. It's much more flexible in that you can always shift to burn mode if the ground gets clogged up, or proactively remove problematic creatures that your opponent may not otherwise block with (i.e. Dark Confidant, a flipped Delver etc.) I think the instances where you really "get them" with a Brute Force are far less common than the times 3 direct damage is useful.
    When I said double bolt, I meant that it was 6 damage for 1 mana with a double striker. Also, I believe that the 1 mana difference between Brute Force and Incinerate is a huge deal in a deck that strives to play as few lands as possible. For me, the pros far outweigh the cons when using this card.


    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Not really though - Finks is a 3/2, so it will always trade for your Ram-gang unless it already had a counter on it. In that situation, your opponent traded his creature for an effective 5 life plus your guy. Using a Brute Force in this situation also works out in your opponent's favor.
    Yes, so you trade creatures 1 for 1 when your opponent was thinking that they would get a 1 for 0. The Finks doesn't come back, which is a big plus in my opinion. When you're running an aggressive deck, trading 1 for 1 is usually okay.


    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    Smash to Smithereens is a nice choice if all you're really worried about is the occasional Sword of X and Y. I prefer spree because it is nigh uncounterable, and it gives us a way to break up Metalcraft in the affinity match-up. If you're going to stick to the Brute Force + Beater approach, Smash will probably give you the little bit of extra reach you need in certain matches. You'll just have to be aware of what the real threats are instead of just using it as a one sided wrath.
    Oh, definitely. The thing I've been thinking about is that Affinity can get blown out by the Spree, but Smash can win you the game too, just not by blowing the opponent out. It's something to think about in an aggressive deck, as a little burn can go a long way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davran View Post
    One last thing that occurred to me is that this deck probably wants a playset of Cavern of Souls. There's no real Wasteland effect in this format, and they're still mountains under a Blood Moon. There's really no reason not to run them.
    Probably. The only drawback is that you cannot cast your removal with it, which could cost you a game if you only get Caverns.

  14. #34
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Hi, I started watching this thread a month ago after I had sold myself on getting into Modern having been a long time legacy goblins player.

    I've been tinkering with the list and sideboard for some time and play testing against the deck database on scg with a partner. Here is what I have come up with:

    Main:

    Land: 22
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Auntie's Hovel
    4x Blood Crypt
    4x Cavern of Souls
    2x Mountain
    4x Mutavault

    Creatures: 29
    4x Knucklebone Witch
    4x Mogg War Marshal
    4x Warren Instigator
    2x Boggart Harbinger
    4x Goblin Chieftain
    4x Goblin King
    4x Mad Auntie
    3x Sensation Gorger

    Spells: 9
    4x Aether Vial
    3x Tarfire
    2x Warren Weirding

    Sideboard:
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    Against birthing pod effects and some graveyard strategies.
    3x Shattering Spree
    Affinity is scary, applicable against other artifact strategies
    2x Terminate
    I want instant speed removal for infect, and splinter twin at a minimum
    3x Thorn of Amethyst
    seems like a house against storm-esq decks and burn/rdw
    2x Wort, Boggart Auntie
    I think that an aggro deck keeping pace will lose to a resolved auntie
    3x Earwig Squad
    I originally had ruinblasters in these slots, but I figured that in match ups I want nonbasic hate like the urza decks removing their win conditions is more effective

    The primary game plan is overrunning with exponentially stronger lords. To get me there I want great value creatures, instigator gets out of control with pump effects, knucklebone has been great at getting value from removal and war marshal is a house.

    The removal package is a little small but I figure you'll be winning on the ground anyways and would don't need much to kill creatures an opponent blocks with or the ones they want to keep back.

    The harbinger is nothing compared to the goblin matron I want it has been proving itself useful fetching spot removal or acting as lord 13-14, in fringe cases it sets up gorgers. I think that it justifies its 2 slots.

    Finally, taking inspiration from an earlier post the gorger has been a really interesting card there are 34 goblin cards to trigger off of where a quarter of the deck is lords yields some scary combat phases on your turn. Gorger has been a beast in disrupting control and (some)combo game plans but something to keep in mind is that the trigger is optional and generally not good against a deck that will dump it's hand better/faster then you.

    My playtesting has stopped due to exams, but I can bring some feedback and match analysis in 2 weeks.

    Please let me know what you're feedback is and for some additional discussion what do you think about Rakdos Charm in the current field.

    Edit:

    The pros of leaving monored is the ability to get 4 3CC lords from black on top of the other tech above, with those lords board sweeps like pyroclasm you can laugh at. Wrath like effects still present a problem, but for the time being they aren't seeing a huge amount of play.

    As for my manabase, I really want more coloured sources and I think the correct drop is Cavern of Souls x2 for Blackcleave Cliffs

  15. #35
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    Ruinblaster vs Blood Moon is something that I'm testing right now. It's sort of like having tempo vs having a soft lock.
    Have you considered Magus of the Moon, since there isn't a strict tribal bind outside of chieftain which makes ruinblaster vs magus +1P for -R manacost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zupponn View Post
    When I said double bolt, I meant that it was 6 damage for 1 mana with a double striker. Also, I believe that the 1 mana difference between Brute Force and Incinerate is a huge deal in a deck that strives to play as few lands as possible. For me, the pros far outweigh the cons when using this card.
    Quest for the Goblin Lord was mentioned on page 1, it seems relevant if you're hedging on double strike, with 8 of those creatures, having a permanent for power seems interesting especially with Spikeshot Elder. Or do you find the setup time isn't worth it for the quest

  16. #36
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by saucy View Post
    Here is what I have come up with:
    Wow, on a whim I just decided to throw this together on MTGO and it's actually extremely powerful.

    I'll first post my adapted list:

    Main:

    Land: 22Didn't want to spend the $$$ on more Blood Crypts, but this didn't cause me any problems yet and I like 1 Swamp for Path to Exile purposes
    4x Arid Mesa
    4x Auntie's Hovel
    2x Blood Crypt
    2x Cavern of Souls
    5x Mountain
    1x Swamp
    4x Mutavault

    Creatures: 29
    -4x Knucklebone Witch I took these out, after playing them a few times I realized they're just not good. Either your guys get Path to Exile or you run into GR tron and they get Pyroclasmed with the rest of it, or you're racing a combo deck that you'd rather have something else with
    4x Mogg War Marshal
    4x Warren Instigator
    -2x Boggart Harbinger Straight up too slow. I wish we had a replacement for Goblin Matron, I really do, but the utility of this guy isn't really worth the slowness, and now with 12 lords this deck is pretty consistent without it
    4x Goblin Chieftain
    4x Goblin King
    4x Mad Auntie
    3x Sensation Gorger
    4x Goblin Ruinblaster (buys you time against non-tron decks, extremely good in that you don't need to wait for 4 lands like with Tec edge. Great against Blue control decks or manlands)
    1x Wort, Boggart Auntie (I like the 1-of for the really grindy late game, and more than 1 can run into legendary rule. May not be worth it later)
    2x Earwig Squad (It's soooo good against Tron and other unfair decks, while being bigger than a tarmagoyf against everything else)

    Spells: 9
    4x Aether Vial
    4x Tarfire (Weirdings just aren't good enough in the current meta, everyone either has mana dorks, Lingering Souls, or no creatures, and the +2 goblin token wasn't worth it)

    Sideboard: Haphazardly thrown together
    1x Earwig Squad, because he's so good against the unfair decks
    4x Thoughtseize, because they're so good against the unfair decks
    2x Seige-Gang Commander, they go in for the Earwigs against the fair decks
    2x Thorn of Amethyst
    3x Grafdigger's Cage
    3x Relic of Progenitus

    I'm having a blast with the deck. I might look for a 1 drop to replace the Witch, Mogg Fanatic might be the best choice just to take out Dark Confidant/ Noble Hierarch/ whatever else. I'll update once I've done more testing, but for now this has been way better than I thought. I've beaten 3 Tron decks just by outracing them and Ruinblaster (+ some awesome Sensation Gorger triggers when they used their Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying and I vial him in).

  17. #37
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Have anyone tested Krenko on these lists yet?
    How has he performed?
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    -4x Knucklebone WitchI took these out, after playing them a few times I realized they're just not good. Either your guys get Path to Exile or you run into GR tron and they get Pyroclasmed with the rest of it, or you're racing a combo deck that you'd rather have something else with
    ...
    -2x Boggart Harbinger Straight up too slow. I wish we had a replacement for Goblin Matron, I really do, but the utility of this guy isn't really worth the slowness, and now with 12 lords this deck is pretty consistent without it
    I really like the idea of Mogg Fanatic I think it hits enough things to win over Knucklebone, not to mention putting less stress on the manabase and favouring more caverns. Having 4x Fanatics and 4x Tarfire reduces the need for Harbinger to fetch removal which is probably the most used tutor target so I'm sold on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    4x Goblin Ruinblaster (buys you time against non-tron decks, extremely good in that you don't need to wait for 4 lands like with Tec edge. Great against Blue control decks or manlands)
    My main issue with Ruinblaster is the inability to kick using Aether and Instigator and I really would like to see it in combination with other resource hate, perhaps Thalia, I'd say Magus of the Moon but it nukes Mutavault. Either way Ruinblaster's tempo shouldn't be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Have anyone tested Krenko on these lists yet?
    How has he performed?
    I totally forgot about Krenko, in my mind Krenko >= Wort, I'll try and 1-1 mix.

    I'm excited to try everything out. There is a {cards} tag :/, I went and manually found the deckbox links in my first post.

  19. #39

    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    To be worth it, these decks need to either goldfish on turn 3, or goldfish on turn 4-5 with disruption.
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  20. #40
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    Re: [Deck] Goblins

    It seems like we are attempting to make tribal goblins work in modern, with that we should identify the core of the list much like the primers do.

    Lands: 20-24
    0-8x Fetchlands
    0-4x Mutavault
    0-8x Mana Denial
    8-24x Mana producing lands
    X acceleration

    Core: 16
    4x Mogg Fanatic
    4x Warren instigator
    4x Mogg War Marshal
    4x Goblin Chieftain

    Other: 20-24
    0-8 removal
    0-24 other creatures

    From each colour we can then analyze what cards are the most relevant and enforce our game plan maindeck, sideboard hate is its own reply altogether.

    Red:
    Sensation Gorger: Solid addition useful to gain card advantage, can dismantle some opponents
    Goblin Guide: Better replaced with fanatic as the extra 3-5 damage doesn't come with utility of killing targets for instigator
    Goblin King: Ruled out do to having a better curve with boartusk, possible mix with boartusk or lord 13+
    Tarfire">Tarfire, Lightning Bolt: One of the more powerful removal cards for us period, can't justify tarfire with the amount of gofy, tarfire wil only kill a 1T gofy since tribal will grant a bonus on resolution during game state check
    Goblin Ruinblaster, Magus of the Moon: Sweet Non basic Hate on a body, note that the kicker cost cannot be paid when Instigating or Vialing it in versus the alternative of no tribal binding
    Krenko, Mob Boss: Huge card, resolved Krenko folds over creature strategies and gives a good clock
    Siege-Gang Commander: A ton of utility, back breaking when played off of Instigator
    Quest for the Goblin Lord: too slow, too many conditionals to be effective

    White:
    Hearthfire Hobgoblin: Worse replacement for instigator
    Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: Soft lock with a decent body thanks to first strike
    Path to Exile: solid removal, doesn't play well with our mana denial options

    Green:
    Boartusk Liege: Huge body, I'd rate as the worst lord purely due to 4CC
    Tattermunge Maniac:Can't be justified over guide, and guide struggles for a spot
    Tin Street Hooligan:Too costly to maindecks gameplan in numbers, no tutor for sparse amounts

    Black:
    Terminate, Dismember: Serious instant speed removal, can be steep cost for or -4Life
    Knucklebone Witch: Decent one drop, less utility then Mogg Fanatic
    Frogtosser Banneret: Really interesting card, might make the black splash the most powerful
    Mad Auntie: Second best lord, easy to handle manacost
    Earwig Squad: House against some decks, and a huge beater against others, can prowl for with a frogtosser in play
    Wort, Boggart Auntie: Interesting card for recycling cards late game, gives the option for recurring Tarfire or Weirding
    Boggart Harbinger: Too dam slow
    Warren Weirding: Interesting narrow removal, sorcery speed really hurts its effectiveness

    Lands:
    Tectonic Edge, Ghost Quarter: Mana denial lands, seems effective with other mana denial
    Mutavault: Utility land with lord effects, at least 12 lords is the number I'd shoot for

    Artifacts:
    Aether Vial: under performing, not enough card advantage to make full use, too narrow usage when hedging on manlands or destruction lands, testing is finding a preference to higher threat density in modern DTB's

    I think this is a good pool to test from, please suggest more, additionally we can start removing cards if and when they are really underperforming

    Edit: added goblin guide
    Edit2: preliminary testing removed cards
    Last edited by saucy; 12-12-2012 at 11:52 AM.

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