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Thread: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

  1. #81
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Amon Amarth View Post
    I don't agree with most thing LaPille has said but I don't think that all the blame should fall on him.
    I don't agree with this. He is the Lead Developer for R&D, where Aaron is the Lead Designer. Both are the figure-heads of their respective teams, and together are responsible for the careful and calculated moves that evolve Magic throughout the years. Tom's team is responsible for not only testing formats, but also anticipating the effect of cards in the formats via FFL, such as Jace TMS & SFM on Standard, the ubiquity of MM in Legacy and how it made playing aggro nearly impossible, and other big blunders over the last few years. It's the Design team's responsibility for making the best(est) cards in recent sets Blue. It is their task to balance the power level within all the colors, but as we keep seeing year after year they chose Blue over non-Blue. But I digress...

    R&D, and their respective leadership (Aaron Forsythe and Tom LaPille) have an active duty to make sure that the new cards in new sets are balanced within all formats. The lack of playtesting on Development's part is a failure of Tom LaPille's team.

    So now that he's nerdraging that the game he's been actively balancing has degenerated into "non-Magic" games is his fault alone. Whether you think this for Legacy or not, that his perception is such is troubling considering the piss poor task his team has done to address those issues over the last several years. How many cards and special releases (think EDH pre-cons) have the teams had to balance both Dredge and Storm, which aren't exactly new decks in Legacy by any stretch, and have air-balled completely?

    I echo the sentiments that MM was a good attempt, but it was too good at what it did, and subsequently neutered Aggro and Combo.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    My problem with TLP calling out dredge for not being "magic" is that Wizards gave us both Bridge from below and Narcomoeba in the same set. They can't claim that the interaction was a unintentional or untested when they gift wrapped the deck and hand delivered it legacy.
    I mean i would be fine with them axing dredge, its not really a fun deck to play with or against IMO. But that's my personal opinion, i am not a employee of Hasbro or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates.
    Prison, storm, and resource denial decks on the other hand are pretty essential imo.
    In Vintage in particular, if you got rid of Dredge, Storm and Shops decks what the #@*! else would there be? A field of blue Vault/key decks. Oh and fish, can't forget the fish.
    And in legacy the storm decks are fairly fragile, and haven't put up strong numbers major tournaments, at least not with any consistency. Dredge is easy to hate, but whatever i really don't want to defend dredge enough people are doing that already.
    And the most recently successful incarnation of prison in legacy was Dragon stompy enough said.
    Just because TLP don't like them doesn't make them not interesting of fun to many players..... i'm sure there are many combo players that wish control would just go curl up and die.

  3. #83
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    I was actually quite sad that Scars of Mirrodin block didn't turn out to be a blunder like Mirrodin block or Urza block.

    Though back to the topic, I think the Dredge/Storm of today is like Prison/Stasis back in the day. It's essentially like 'not Magic' in a way that if you're playing against it, you are essentially watching someone play themselves. TLP should be glad that Dredge/Storm isn't as painful to watch and play against as Prison/Stasis.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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  4. #84
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    For what it's worth, I enjoy untap-my-lands blue storm decks way more than Dark Ritual black storm decks.
    Did he not play the format any of the times when High Tide was good?
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  5. #85
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    all the decisions that were made by wizards in the last 2 years bringing me pretty close to sell all my cards. Im pretty sure, they have no ideas about the game at all. I dont want to list all the stupid things they did and have been discussed here anyways, but when theyre starting to mess with legacy like theyre doing with modern im gone, thats for sure.
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  6. #86

    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    I don't agree with this. He is the Lead Developer for R&D, where Aaron is the Lead Designer. Both are the figure-heads of their respective teams, and together are responsible for the careful and calculated moves that evolve Magic throughout the years. Tom's team is responsible for not only testing formats, but also anticipating the effect of cards in the formats via FFL, such as Jace TMS & SFM on Standard, the ubiquity of MM in Legacy and how it made playing aggro nearly impossible, and other big blunders over the last few years. It's the Design team's responsibility for making the best(est) cards in recent sets Blue. It is their task to balance the power level within all the colors, but as we keep seeing year after year they chose Blue over non-Blue. But I digress...

    R&D, and their respective leadership (Aaron Forsythe and Tom LaPille) have an active duty to make sure that the new cards in new sets are balanced within all formats. The lack of playtesting on Development's part is a failure of Tom LaPille's team.
    I think the problem stems from Tom LaPille and the others in development just not being good enough at magic. The inability to see what SFM+Batterskull would be, the idea that mono green infect is a competitive standard deck, and that Great Sable Stag is a card is unacceptable and shows they don't have deckbuilding skills as good as good players do.

  7. #87
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Moved to Community.

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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    So somebody pointed out that Wizards gave us dredge, anybody know if Tom Lapille was responsible for that?

    Also, colorless graveyard hate printed by block:
    Lorwynn: First block after dredge was created, no colorless graveyard hate that I can recall.

    Shards of Alara: Relic of Prog., cantrip'd crypt with a reusable graveyard picker.

    Zendikar: Bojuka Bog, near uncounterable crypt which can be fetched with knight of rel. from the previous block. Ravenous Trap, can't dredge too much or this instant speed crypt will get you.

    Scars of Mir.: Nihil Spellbomb, another tormod's crypt this time with a conditional cantrip attached. Surgical Extraction, it wasn't fair that only black had 10+ outs to dredge, obviously extirpate needed to be colorless.

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  9. #89
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by joemauer View Post
    So somebody pointed out that Wizards gave us dredge, anybody know if Tom Lapille was responsible for that?
    Nah -- LaPille didn't start at Wotc until late 2008. Ravnica block was three years prior and Future Sight was 2007.

  10. #90
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Aaaahh, so Tom came at about the time Mythic rares popped up?

    Also, he arrived while I was getting out of standard. Hmm.

  11. #91

    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by joemauer View Post
    So somebody pointed out that Wizards gave us dredge, anybody know if Tom Lapille was responsible for that?

    Also, colorless graveyard hate printed by block:
    Lorwynn: First block after dredge was created, no colorless graveyard hate that I can recall.

    Shards of Alara: Relic of Prog., cantrip'd crypt with a reusable graveyard picker.

    Zendikar: Bojuka Bog, near uncounterable crypt which can be fetched with knight of rel. from the previous block. Ravenous Trap, can't dredge too much or this instant speed crypt will get you.

    Scars of Mir.: Nihil Spellbomb, another tormod's crypt this time with a conditional cantrip attached. Surgical Extraction, it wasn't fair that only black had 10+ outs to dredge, obviously extirpate needed to be colorless.

    Innastrand: TBA.
    Don't forget Tormod's Crypt was in Time Spiral with the core Future Sight dredge cards.

  12. #92

    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderwaterGuy View Post
    I think the problem stems from Tom LaPille and the others in development just not being good enough at magic. The inability to see what SFM+Batterskull would be, the idea that mono green infect is a competitive standard deck, and that Great Sable Stag is a card is unacceptable and shows they don't have deckbuilding skills as good as good players do.
    This. Combined with the fact that TLP is terrible at communicating makes for a very poor lead of anything. FFL missing Deciever Exarch/Splinter Twin is just shameful. After they had Pestermite/Kikki-Jiki and Pestermite/Twin already. That type of miss requires action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertai's Familiar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Interestingly enough, I would argue that BS is the Dark Ritual in this case.
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  13. #93
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by CorpT View Post
    This. Combined with the fact that TLP is terrible at communicating makes for a very poor lead of anything. FFL missing Deciever Exarch/Splinter Twin is just shameful. After they had Pestermite/Kikki-Jiki and Pestermite/Twin already. That type of miss requires action.
    I think the action should be getting rid of the FFL. It makes me a little uneasy knowing that Wizards plans so far in advance to avoid "mistakes". I think things revert to the good ol' days of emergency bannings. On one hand bannings might indicate poor planning/design, but the way the game is these days I'd rather see some balls to the wall design like Tempest/Urza's blocks.

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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    I don't agree with this. He is the Lead Developer for R&D, where Aaron is the Lead Designer.
    Forsythe is the Director of R&D and Bill Rose is VP. Both LaPille and Rosewater work for Forsythe who reports to Bill Rose. If there's "blame" to be assigned for R&D's "mistakes," it's with Bill Rose and Aaron Forsythe (in that order), not LaPille. Jeez, get your corporate hierarchy right. ;)

    Development is not one guy, it's a team of dudes, so calling out LaPille singularly is pretty misinformed here.

    Overall, this seems like an insanely difficult game to develop and I think they're doing it as good as can be expected: focusing on the money-making side of the thing (block, standard, draft) and banning anything that's too nutty in the deeper formats.

  15. #95

    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Forsythe is the Director of R&D and Bill Rose is VP. Both LaPille and Rosewater work for Forsythe who reports to Bill Rose. If there's "blame" to be assigned for R&D's "mistakes," it's with Bill Rose and Aaron Forsythe (in that order), not LaPille. Jeez, get your corporate hierarchy right. ;)

    Development is not one guy, it's a team of dudes, so calling out LaPille singularly is pretty misinformed here.

    Overall, this seems like an insanely difficult game to develop and I think they're doing it as good as can be expected: focus on the money-making side of your business (block, standard, draft) and ban anything that's too nutty in the larger formats.
    Actually, we can nitpick further: Rosewater is the Head Designer, because "Lead Designer/Developer" varies based on set. I don't know if there is a Head Developer.

    Regardless of anything derpy LaPille might say, what's relevant are the bans (or lack thereof) that come out of it. Clearly, storm and dredge are not decks that just cropped up yesterday; they've been in the format for ages and R&D would have to be flat-out brain dead to not know that. However, it's arguable that the only "non-interactive"/"not-real-Magic" card banned so far in Legacy has been Mystical Tutor, and that was more of an enabler than anything. The strategies that wanted it continue to exist in its absence.

  16. #96
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Doesn't the banning process in involve more than just the folks in R&D (i.e., the mythical "DCI," which includes people in R&D, Organized Play, and maybe another division or two, including external people)?

  17. #97
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    I've never known the banning process to be transparent. Or all that translucent for that matter.
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Leftconsin View Post
    I've never known the banning process to be transparent. Or all that translucent for that matter.
    I hear it involves testing in MODO practice rooms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Interestingly enough, I would argue that BS is the Dark Ritual in this case.
    Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?

  19. #99

    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    Doesn't the banning process in involve more than just the folks in R&D (i.e., the mythical "DCI," which includes people in R&D, Organized Play, and maybe another division or two, including external people)?
    I think it involves a blindfolded dude and a dartboard.

  20. #100
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    Re: Tom LaPille - he's at it again

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Too simple?

    We have the following decks:

    A
    B
    C
    V
    X

    A beats V and X and loses to B and loses extremely hard to C.
    C beats B and A but loses to V and X.
    V ties with X and beats B and C but loses to A.

    etc.

    It's more complicated than what I posted, but the point is still true: different archtypes of decks beat other decks. With variety we ensure balance since no one deck is a Paper to every Rock.
    It's not true. Archetypes don't beat decks. Decks beat decks. And they do so based on the cards they contain. Archetypes are only vaguely useful as a classification scheme, but nothing more than that.
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