Tom LaPille - he's at it again

[Zamussels]

Well I agree that dredge is horrible and am not quite sure why the deck was allowed to exist for so long...

[bakofried]

I don't mind seeing Dredge every now and again. Keeps you on your toes, man.

[Fossil4182]

I think one of the biggest mistakes Tom makes is the assumption that the hypothetical world of Magic he envisions is still going to over by turn two or three. Even if the game does not literally end before turn four, the decision making and relevant cards drawn in the first few turns will usually dictate who wins. If this is really his opinion and not some ploy (see below) its also demonstrates a very narrow view of the game and would make Magic a linear game. Part of the appeal of this game is being able to identify interactions among cards in order to win. If his post is a reaction to the recent SCG results, its shortsighted. It seemed almost intuitive that combo would make an usually large comeback for the first tournament without Mental Misstep. Decks will adjust with more hate and the world will go on.

I'd also point out that the world he's envisioning is what Modern is supposed to be. A possible explanation for the quote is Tom attempting to persuade potential eternal players to choose a format that's not Vintage or Legacy... However, looking past the inflammatory and unclear intent of his Tweet, it would seem that the healthiest eternal scene would be one in which each of the three formats has a distinct characteristics that define them. Have all three formats operate with guidelines about how fast the format can been seems very limiting.

[tsabo_tavoc]

When you are making sets where the best 3 creatures are blue you need to look in the mirror, drop your pants, and kick yourself in the man bag.

+1.

The best Rare, the best Uncommon, and the best Common are blue.

[sclabman]

Genie comes out of a lamp during your recent acid trip and allows you to kill 3 people, with no repercussions, for the betterment of the planet.

Definitely:
1. Oprah Winfrey
2. Paula Deen
3. Tom LaPille

[Goin Aggro]

Tom LaPille:

[sco0ter]

What's wrong with his statement?

I fully agree with him.

"like dredge or storm or no one casting spells forever or something."
"I played Dredge at an unsanctioned tournament yesterday and did not have fun."

I mean those decks are probably the most non-interactive, most un-fun decks.

[Gocho]

Fun is something personal. You can think that Dredge is un-fun and I can keep years playing Dredge because I think that is the funnier deck in all the meta.

DCI and Wizards must give choices to the players, but don't choose for them.

[Fuzzy]

Well, I agree with him - Storm and Dredge <> Magic.

But I'm really fine with this.

[Lancer]

What's wrong with his statement?

I fully agree with him.

"like dredge or storm or no one casting spells forever or something."
"I played Dredge at an unsanctioned tournament yesterday and did not have fun."

I mean those decks are probably the most non-interactive, most un-fun decks.

Because Mental Misstep put those decks into check, it didnt kill the those decks it just make it little risky to play in a tournament. Players seemed to panic more about the card then needed and wizards quickly reacted without thinking. Now they are starting to think about thier mistake. [saddly I dont see how DCI/Wizards can unban Mental Misstep since they quickly ban the freaking card at the first place]

As I said and many others has said, banning Mental Misstep will not make Goblins come back as it did after Survival.



@SpikeyMikey:

I do agree Storm was not a mistake! I also believe Urzas was made with the intent to bring the old players back into standard.

[Grollub]

What's wrong with his statement?

I fully agree with him.

"like dredge or storm or no one casting spells forever or something."
"I played Dredge at an unsanctioned tournament yesterday and did not have fun."

I mean those decks are probably the most non-interactive, most un-fun decks.

I actually sort of agree too (especially on dredge, as it's simply not Magic) - but on the other hands in regards to strictly tournament play I think they are fine, they keep decks honest and forces sideboard slots.
- In a tournament I'd always pick the deck I feel gives me the greatest shot at winning, regardless of how "fun" it might be to play against or with.

Balancing for casual and tournament at the same time seems like a nearly impossible task.

Really? I'm surprised. I would think that a Legacy afficianado would be disappointed with Wizards as a whole these days. They've had this mindset that they want to focus on nerfing counterspells into near unplayability and murder the shit out of combo whenever they find it. I much prefer the old Wizards of the Coast. Wizards pre-Onslaught, really. Odyssey was a fine set, Invasions was my favorite set ever, Masques and Urzas had some issues but had very playable T2 formats, Tempest was tits, I mean, the old sets had good flavor. Not flavor insofar as "this fits into our shitty, hackneyed novels" but flavor in terms of cool concepts. I mean yeah, Humility may be an absolute rules nightmare, but it's just a cool card, good name, Foglio art, it's where it's at.

Totally agree (tho my point of no return goes back to Urza). Better flavour and design; deck archetypes of all types were all viable during this "golden era" and cards only got banned if they were over the top insane bonkers in the respective formats.

Mirage/Tempest, Tempest/Urza or Tempest block will forever be my favorite formats.

[Lemnear]

LaPille does mention 3 decks, not 2 imo.

Dredge, Storm and Prison.

I can agree that a deck that relies on a uncounterable source (Bazaar) and triggers (narco, Bridge, ghast) is very annoying to play and play against. I can also to some minor degree understand that Lodestone, chalice, go is an unbeatable (FoW aside but the gamestate is even worse than T1 Trinisphere) and stupid play. If you look at all the redundance in workshop decks this is a common scenario of lacking interaction playing against shops. Why Storm is considered unfair is a riddle for me. If a player can play 10 spells uninterrupted in One turn (with all the Cards and mana requires to do so) he deserves to win the game

It's more rewarding and challenging than any other way to win so calling it "unfun" in general is nothing more than trolling because you've sat too often on the other side of the table. Storm isn't Play one card and win.

[Pippin]

"There's apparently a gentlemen's agreement of not playing dredge. Otherwise the ultra powerful zombies would beat everything, just like I did at a 10 man unsanctioned tournament. We even tested it at Magic Online Casual room and beat everything, so we decided to act. All dredge cards are hereby banned. Long live the elves!"

- Tom LaPille

[Mr. Safety]

Magic is magic...the whole point of the mechanics of magic is to break the rules. The cards that are the most powerful and/or fun are always the ones that break the traditional rules. That's essentially how wizards creates new mechanics: find a way to break the rules. Am I totally wrong here? Does Tom Lapille not understand this fundamental aspect of magic, not only in design/development but also in practical play terms? What an asshat.

With that said, it is becoming increasingly more obvious that Wizards wants to make everyone that plays magic to play at a casual level. Look at all the effort they went through to push the new Commander sets, the From-the-Vault sets, basically all of the promo stuff they've been pushing over the past few years. They don't want competitive magic; they want us all to be little pink bunnies trading rainbows in the meadow of Everyone-Has-Fun-And-Everyone-Wins Land.

I may be way off, but it certainly feels like WotC is trying to neuter the game into what they see as it's 'ideal state'. Yes, we understand that some cards need to be banned in order to create a balanced environment. BUT, the brief moment in time when something absolutely AWESOME comes about (Hulk-Flash anyone?) is one of the most exciting times in the game. Something unpredictable and amazing reinforced why we all think this game is great.

Tom Lapille, please stop trying to squash what makes magic fun. By trying to make it more fun or accessable (in your eyes) you're actually encouraging cancerous growth.

[nayon]

Yet another gem from Mr. LaPille: "For what it's worth, I enjoy untap-my-lands blue storm decks way more than Dark Ritual black storm decks."

Is this guy trolling or is he thick?

[UnsungHero]

This thread needs more great stable stag.

Dredge decks are awesome. Its the obscurity of the deck that makes it challenging and unique. I for one welcome a army of 2/2 zombies over tapping 3 mana and playing a great sable stag. Suck it La Pille.

[SpikeyMikey]

Yet another gem from Mr. LaPille: "For what it's worth, I enjoy untap-my-lands blue storm decks way more than Dark Ritual black storm decks."

Is this guy trolling or is he thick?

He's just an idiot. It's not trolling.

[joemauer]

Well that explains why we see colorless graveyard hate printed every few sets.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

What's wrong with his statement?

I fully agree with him.

"like dredge or storm or no one casting spells forever or something."
"I played Dredge at an unsanctioned tournament yesterday and did not have fun."

I mean those decks are probably the most non-interactive, most un-fun decks.

I enjoy playing against dredge, since there's a minimum of interaction. I hate playing against storm combo and Countertop. But they're still "Magic". You can't just arbitrarily say a bunch of decks 'aren't Magic', especially when they or their archetypes have had as long and storied a history as dredge, storm, and prison decks have had. You also can't just ignore format lines like that. It's ridiculous: they're all composed of Magic cards, after all, and a lot of discrete cards that otherwise would see no play. It's perfectly 'Magic'. Whether or not they're much fun to pilot or play against is a different issue altogether, and should not be conflated with the legitimacy of those decks.


But what's REALLY wrong with his series of tweets is that Mental Misstep slowed the format down, thereby achieving what his tweets wanted--except that it was banned. And there's the real irony.

[wcm8]

Magic is magic...the whole point of the mechanics of magic is to break the rules

I agree. If you look at the cards that get played, they all do something inherently broken or 'above the curve' for their mana cost.

-Tarmogoyf gets played over Leatherback Baloth because a 2cmc 4/5 > 3cmc 4/5.
-Even if Mind Twist were unbanned, Hymn to Tourach would still be better due to its mana-cost-to-effect ratio.
-Natural Order was a relatively fair card before the printing of Progenitus.
-Reanimator gets Iona (or some other game-winning creature) into play with a simple 1 or 2 mana spell.

Different formats have a different feel. If you want to enjoy MtG as someone like LaPille thinks it should be played, I think limited/draft is where you want to be focusing your attention. Every constructed format is going to build decks with the intention of breaking the game.

Also, from a flavor point of view, I think decks like Dredge, Storm, and Workshops are incredibly flavorful. You have the necromancer from a foreign land using bizarre forms of magic to summon a horde of the undead; you have a Lich-wizard using fantastic artifacts and blue/black magic to conjure up a lethal storm; you have the artificer who uses 'anti-magical' relics to defeat the more 'mundane' type of mages.

It's a bit more interesting that beating each other over the head with vanilla creatures and the occasional removal spell, don't you think?