I kind of agree with wotc about bannings vs restrictions. Bannings in Legacy are the thing that differentiates it from Vintage so I feel like it's a valuable line to draw that separates the two, very different, formats.
Force of Will, obviously. I can guarantee that banning brainstorm won't impact the format at all, because it will have the same results than banning Atog in standard affinity. There's simply too much filtering available and wotc will keep printing more every set, and the control decks that don't need filtering will instead play card drawing effects.Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
However, banning FoW automatically fixes the format for good because it kills the blue tempo decks and the blue combo decks that have been ruining magic since forever.
Then, WotC hires me to make sure that the next Snapcaster Mage is red and Insectile Aberration is black, and I use my power to print "Chancellor of the Discard" and other cards that actually fix the format without having to rely on broken cards that makes all other colors irrelevant.
By the way, the reason people don't play discard anymore is not because of brainstorm, but because discard is severely outclassed by free (and undercosted) countermagic.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
-So everyone can play Zoo like in Modern? That's your idea of "Magic"?
I hope enough people listen to you. Banning FoW will kill Legacy and then more people will play EDH. It'll also makes duals cheaper for EDH. Go on, keep crying for the ban of blue: I hope you win!
Heh, it's not my fault that WotC is stupid and doesn't ban any piece of Zoo in modern, or prints stupid cards like Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage, but people here is also pretty dumb. You know, the only nonblue deck that gets played and wins nowadays is dredge because it doesn't cast spells, and people conclude that the problem is brainstorm and not the free timewalks.-So everyone can play Zoo like in Modern? That's your idea of "Magic"?
I hope enough people listen to you. Banning FoW will kill Legacy and then more people will play EDH. It'll also makes duals cheaper for EDH. Go on, keep crying for the ban of blue: I hope you win!
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
WotC wants everyone to play Zoo or deck like Zoo. That and the fact that combo decks of jank cards rule the format are why Modern is dying.
Maverick and Zoo don't exist in Legacy.You know, the only nonblue deck that gets played and wins nowadays is dredge because it doesn't cast spells, and people conclude that the problem is brainstorm and not the free timewalks.
wtf? there are people without 40 duals? Furthermore, there are people without 40 duals who play legacy?!It'll also makes duals cheaper for EDH. Go on, keep crying for the ban of blue: I hope you win!
You do play legacy I guess, eh? It's hard to tell, but you have 1K+ posts so I guess you do... Sorry you hate blue tempo decks (LOLOL)
Well, anyway, there's this thing called combo, without free counterspells combo decks become much stronger. In fact, this is so true that people often refer to Force as "the glue that holds legacy together"
You should go check out some Storm decks or TES and see why FoW is important for us.
I think you got it wrong, combo decks become stronger because they can play Force of Will, and fact is, 90% of banned cards belonged to combo decks that used FoW to force the combo through all kinds of hate. Yeah, it sucks but it's an ugly truth.
Or where you thinking in those other combo decks that cast a bunch of rituals? Heh, R&D confessed in an article that they keep them legal because they can put up a fight against the FoW decks, otherwise, it would just be FoW decks all day. Did you think for a moment that any deck that reliably kills you on turns 1-2 would be legal otherwise?
If you still don't understand why free countermagic is destroying the format, you could also read this article that sums it nicely. It's the section: "What happens when everybody plays duress", but I also urge you to read the section "Are we speeding offtrack or did we already crash and are already dead?".
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
Reanimator is the only competitive combo deck that runs Force. The storm decks are also extremely powerful and do not use Force.
ANT or some similar deck would dominate unconditionally if Force were gone.
DrJones I missed you. That is all :D
Not sure if serious...
I guess you forgot about Spiral Tide, Hive Mind, every other deck that plays Show and Tell (and a few that play Natural Order). Since you listed "competitive" implying "right now" I won't expound on all the other combo decks with FOW that have seen play in the last year or so.
As for ANT dominating without Force? Who knows. It's quite possible to fight it with discard, and as a storm player I actually fear Stompy and Staxxx-esque strategies much more than blue (but stompy is bad because of blue decks, so I don't usually have to worry about it).
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
As far as I can tell, there are only 28 dual lands. I keep hearing rumors of lands that tap for extra colors of mana with no drawback in colors that don't cast Brainstorm or Dark Ritual, but I'm pretty sure they're false.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Yes I meant current top tier decks. Hive Mind isn't as good as it was in the summer and I haven't seen Spiral Tide doing well for a while.
I'm not saying those aren't real decks but they aren't the best decks around right now and that's all I said.
and I realize now I was trolled :(
I got kind of annoyed with the numerous grammatical errors... doesn't anyone proof-read these things?
"If you're playing Storm in Legacy, you need to believe that what your deck does is better than what their deck does."
Hive Mind made Top 8 at GP Amsterdam two weeks ago.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
I felt this too at first but I assume English is not the author's first language.
You'd think the website would at least have an editor though :/
AnT would get a huge boost if FoW was out of the picture. Though you're right, decks like Stax are far harder to beat than most blue decks, with the exception of CounterTop.deck. Stompy I don't much care about short of a live MoM with a Ethersworn Canonist on the table or a G1 Teeg.
Yes we all know how you (DrJones) wants to see FoW Banned.I think you got it wrong, combo decks become stronger because they can play Force of Will, and fact is, 90% of banned cards belonged to combo decks that used FoW to force the combo through all kinds of hate. Yeah, it sucks but it's an ugly truth.
Or where you thinking in those other combo decks that cast a bunch of rituals? Heh, R&D confessed in an article that they keep them legal because they can put up a fight against the FoW decks, otherwise, it would just be FoW decks all day. Did you think for a moment that any deck that reliably kills you on turns 1-2 would be legal otherwise?
If you still don't understand why free countermagic is destroying the format, you could also read this article that sums it nicely. It's the section: "What happens when everybody plays duress", but I also urge you to read the section "Are we speeding offtrack or did we already crash and are already dead?".
Funny how you mention the SCG article by Brian Demars saying Vintage is too fast due to the 'free' counterspells, and fail to even mention the various articles by arguably better players that argue against it one of which is found here http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=2333. Mr. Menendian himself stating and I quote "Although Brian’s article is well written (from a rhetorical and literary perspective), and entertaining, ultimately his argument is poorly conceived, badly reasoned, and, most importantly, factually wrong. Put simply, free spells don’t necessarily create a faster format. Nor have the free spells printed recently done so as a factual matter"
Last edited by crovakiet; 11-09-2011 at 08:56 PM. Reason: messed up quote
Please ban FoW so I can sling belcher all day long with ease. Or ANT or TES or what have you.
I knew you would post FoW to be the next banning knowing you DrJones. And foil isn't a legitimate card because it's a 3 for 1 and no one would run it. Disrupting shoal is also awful as fuck to replace it. Pact of negation costs 5 mana or 0 mana if you win the turn you cast it.
I'm against banning brainstorm; but knowing WotC they'll ban it anyways just to fuck up my blue decks and make a lot of the playerbase angry.
Also DragonFireheart who said EDH players would scoop up all the duals if some number of legacy players quit? There is no way to know this for sure unless it happened and you tracked the sale of every single dual land and asked the buyer of said dual what they would use it for. I'm guessing most would say legacy.
Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
Currently Playing:
All flavors of storm combo
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote