Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 81

Thread: Introducing: Grinding Station

  1. #41

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Quote Originally Posted by randomly.anonymous View Post
    I suppose Telemin Performance is for those combo mirrors/sneakshow?
    It sounds hilarious against reanimator as well, although that's basically a lottery you can strike gold (jin-gitaxias and Iona come to mind as being sweet ones). Against combo, it's basically a wishable ad nauseam that costs blue instead of black and always wins upon resolution, provided your opponent lacks bob/xantid swarm/creatures.

    I'm tempted to play this deck again, just to try out the new list with burning wishes. At least wish makes LED really good game 1, whereas in the old lists it could only really be used with past in flames.

    Also would like a chance to use my cabal therapies, I haven't used mine in forever and using them with probe seems dirty. I also like to snipe with them, as a skill tester.
    Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
    Currently Playing:
    All flavors of storm combo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix
    Lands is a joke for Solidarity. Its like asking a morbidly obese parapalegic to run the mile with his shoes tied.

  2. #42
    Member
    gamer4life's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    schenectady
    Posts

    10

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Jona,have you ever played The Epic Storm? Lately iv found myself losing more to bad luck and not so much my opponents. Do you ever have the same problem with The Grinding station?

  3. #43

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Ok here are some (very) delayed conclusions. I played against Bg Pox (2-1), Junk (2-1) and Goblins (0-2), each time bringing in the Ad Nauseam package. Which brings up my main sticking point with the deck, I don't like that boarding strategy. The reason I played this over TES was I died to Ad Nauseam too many times and wanted a Tendrils deck that didn't use AN as its engine. But post board this plays much like a TES deck that isn't as good at winning from AN. Maybe I'll try out some Dread of Nights and Infests to combat the aggro decks instead of trying to race them with Ad Nauseam. Or maybe I'll just wait til I've got better with DDFT .

    The deck played out really well apart from that, very consistent due to so many cantrips and had little problem finding business preboard.
    Disregard Creatures : Acquire Storm Count

    http://teamstormboards.proboards.com

  4. #44
    我不是你的英雄。
    Jonathan Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    854

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Quote Originally Posted by gamer4life View Post
    Jona,have you ever played The Epic Storm? Lately iv found myself losing more to bad luck and not so much my opponents. Do you ever have the same problem with The Grinding station?
    I used to play TES back in late 2010 / early 2011. I played both Bryant's and Max McCall's list. So yeah, postboard, this deck is very similar to the latter. Most of my opponents think that I'm playing TES, which is also the reason why I often hear people complaining about me naturally drawing the single Tendrils I have (=

    Anyway, what do you mean by bad luck? And also, about which deck are you talking here? In the last four tournaments I played I picked up six losses, two against Reanimator, three against Dredge and one against Maverick. I know that Dredge is a bad matchup (especially LED-Dredge). Reanimator, well. I have a slightly negative record so far, but it should be a bad matchup I think. The loss against Maverick certainly was unfortunate, but I'd say it's variance rather than bad luck. I can't win everything, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by murkymercy View Post
    Ok here are some (very) delayed conclusions. I played against Bg Pox (2-1), Junk (2-1) and Goblins (0-2), each time bringing in the Ad Nauseam package. Which brings up my main sticking point with the deck, I don't like that boarding strategy. The reason I played this over TES was I died to Ad Nauseam too many times and wanted a Tendrils deck that didn't use AN as its engine. But post board this plays much like a TES deck that isn't as good at winning from AN. Maybe I'll try out some Dread of Nights and Infests to combat the aggro decks instead of trying to race them with Ad Nauseam. Or maybe I'll just wait til I've got better with DDFT .

    The deck played out really well apart from that, very consistent due to so many cantrips and had little problem finding business preboard.
    The most important question is this: In what kind of metagame are you playing the deck? This deck was built to beat the blue decks of the format while not losing to random shit. If people don't play blue decks in your metagame, just go play TES or ANT. You might also win against Dredge then haha

    You should play some games against RUG Tempo, Esperblade and Maverick, then take it to a bigger event. This is the kind of metagame where Grinding Station shines, and there the boarding plan makes sense. Nonetheless, I thought about the Dread of Night thing as well. I rarely go off with Ad Nauseam anyway (even postboard), but I do use Infernal Tutor to go off with Past in Flames from time to time. It's just that the Ad Nauseam plan is also good outside of the Maverick matchup, whereas Dread of Night isn't. I think I'm going to try that out at some point, but I don't think it's actually better.

    Edit: Also, I don't see how you're going to win against Nic Fit without Ad Nauseam / Infernal Tutor in the deck. That's a matchup I often have to play against and one of the main reasons why I'm sticking to my current sideboard. Affinity can also race you occasionally.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

    deckstats.net archive

  5. #45
    Member
    der_agibert's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2011
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    4

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Hey,
    to begin with, my current deck list:

    -

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Rain of Filth

    1 Badlands
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea

    4 Burning Wish
    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Past in Flames
    3 Preordain
    2 Ponder
    3 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Duress

    SB: 1 Ad Nauseam
    SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
    SB: 1 Chain Lightning
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 4 Infernal Tutor
    SB: 1 Past in Flames
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Virtue's Ruin
    SB: 2 Echoing Truth
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

    -

    Concerning the Ponder/Preordain split, I'm still not entirely sure. The set-up character of T1 and 2 Preordain is amazing but, to my mind, when it comes to going off Ponder just has the advantage of digging 1 card deeper. Right now, I am pretty satisfied with my distribution but I can absolutely see the point of running 4/1.

    I was never a great fan of Thoughtseize as in quite a few cases the 2 life loss actually is relevant. Aiming to go the PiF or 8 vs. 7 route (for example against UR(G) Delver or other decks featuring early pressure and a good pile of countermagic / disruption), I often found myself having been dealt quite some damage while dropping lands and cantripping / sculpting. Playing Probe for U is certainly not something that sounds too desireable and fetching always costs 1 life, so I actually think we, as a deck that uses its life total as a time ressource, already feature enough spells feasting on us. Additionally, the only relevant cards I can think about right now that won't be ripped by IoK are FoW and Mindbreak Trap (maybe Sneak Attack, too). All the rest is covered by IoK's cc3, I think: Stifles, Pierces, Daze, Counterbalance, GSZ, Thalia, Teeg, heavy damage-dealing little critters...
    Maybe I forgot something crucial here but during my games I never felt the 2 life loss justified for ripping something IoK could have gotten rid of as well. In some cases, when going for casting 9 spells and Tendrils without any engine, a bad timed opponent's FoW actually won me the game by rising the storm account to lethal, so a random Force is not too scary for me anyway and can be easily played around.
    Furthermore, I also run 2 Duress and 2 Therapies so I guess even going for one "big spell" (i.e. PiF or Wishing for Tendrils/PiF) that needs to be protected seems pretty manageable for me.

    I am a huge fan of Burning Wishes in Grinding Station (already featured the reasons in my last post) and am very comfortable running the whole playset. Another thing I have not mentioned before is our ANT-like boarding plan in games 2 and 3:
    We board this way for the sake of just being faster than any opposing stuff like GSZ into Thalia or Teeg or too much damage during the first few turns. Going this way, we need business spells and we need them fast. Of course, that's what the IT are for, nothing new here. B-Wish is a business spell, too, but to a great lesser extend. That's because there are no SB soceries that end the game just by having enough mana to cast them (T. Peformance, as already stated, does not strike against every deck here). I think that is one aspect you slightly mentioned before, Jona, talking about Infernal Contract and Dimishing Returns. We may Wish into PiF which is pointless as B-Wish unfortunately exiles itself leaving us with lethal storm but without a way to get Tendrils. We may wish for Empty the Warrens which may result in 10 Gobbos losing to a stoneforged Batterskull or just some random blockers, nothing what we want either.
    My justification for running the 4th Wish is the fact that it is able to get an Infernal Tutor, too, given that there is one left in the SB of course. Infernal here gets us our aimed-for Ad Nauseam, therefore being able to actually end the game immediately. Being annoyed and frustrated by these scenarios, I have begun leaving one IT in my SB for this reason, still running 7 business spells with the 4th Wish. Sure, one might say that the move B-Wish into Infernal into AN / PiF is way too expensive with required 9 mana (10 mana in order to have a B left floating for post-AN Rituals ect.) and that is actually true and legit but the fact that it makes B-Wish lethal is worth it in my personal opinion. Furthermore, you may transform the Wish into a Tutor a turn before, thereby lessening the amount of mana needed to 7 which should be doable with a LED, I think.
    I hope you see what I want to say with this paragraph. In a nutshell, take it as "I want a possibility to kill with a sole B-Wish!" :)
    For this purpose, I have already considered Grim Tutor in the SB which would allow me to run all 4 IT main but it costs an additional B...
    Have you never had this problem in g2 and g3? Does anyone know a better way to solve this (or, if not generally shared, maybe just my personal little) scenario?

    One last thing about my list: I have never ever used the Chain Lightning in my SB. I just never needed it, neither to kill a single random hate bear nor to "raise" storm. Is it just me or might the slot be given to another card instead?

    -

    @ gamer4life + murkymercy: As I already mentioned, I run Grinding Station for exactly this reason over TES. Maybe I am just too stupid or not capable enough to play TES the proper way but as you say, I often found myself f*cked by my own deck and not by my opponent. Let's agree on calling it "consistency" rather than bad luck or a lack of skill. If you aim for consistency and your meta allows you to spend 2 or 3 turns on sculpting a reasonable hand and dropping lands (i.e. as Jona already pointed out a blue-based meta), Grinding Station is what you should prefer imho.
    However, if you aim for (or simply like) exploding and going all-in turn 2 or you are simply forced so by your meta, TES is ours, I think.

    Speaking about AN: I actually died only 2 times because of my own AN which was because I had to start it with 12 or 11 life due to early punches. In all other cases AN with B(X) floating was no greater problem, even though there are many situations you just can savely PiF for the win instead. I am pretty happy with the boarding strategy so far, which is one extremely important part of this deck's construction, and share Jona's opinion of AN's simple necessarity and brute force. You just have to realise that g2 and g3 you have the option (and sometimes you are forced) to run a different deck in fact, i.e a quick and reckless ANT/TES.

    @ Dread of Night: Have not tested them but they do not seem too favourable. 1x kills Mothers and Thalia, yup, but (GSZ into) Teeg still stops you. You had to run 4 to have a realistic chance of drawing 2 of them in order to kill Teeg. But that is something our SB does not tolarates imho. Furthermore, random getting Quasali-ised one of them or seeing a sword getting equipped before your 2nd Dread lands is nothing you are too happy to see happen. 1 Virtue's Ruin always did the job for me quite well.

  6. #46
    我不是你的英雄。
    Jonathan Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    854

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Chain Lightning has been pretty good for me. I used it to get rid of quite a few hatebears and players. Really, I don't think I'm going to change anything from my list, although I do like the idea of keeping one Infernal Tutor in the board. What I don't like about that is that you have to run four Burning Wishes, which tend to be rather bad in multiples. The alternative is cutting something from the board to include a Time Spiral or Diminishing Returns. I tested a list with Time Spiral and only got to cast it once, so I'm not sure about that. Also, I feel fine not having something for every single scenario one could possibly encounter.

    I don't think it makes a huge difference whether you run a 3/2 Preordain/Ponder split or the full set of Preordains. Given the bad Dredge matchup, maybe 3/2 is actually better, as Ponder has a better chance of finding Surgical Extraction. By the way, when going off with Past in Flames, Preordain is superior to Ponder. This is pretty much always true when you have to play several cantrips during your combo turn. If it's only one Ponder is better though.

    Also, how has Echoing Truth been for you? I think if I was going to play two-mana anti hate, I'd be running Sudden Shock again. That card is pretty good against Maverick.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

    deckstats.net archive

  7. #47
    Member
    gamer4life's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    schenectady
    Posts

    10

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    @ Jona i was talking about TES/AdS. By bad luck i ment dieing to AdS and all the other inconcistoncies the deck has.

  8. #48

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    What do you do against decks with discard post-board? Deadguy + BUG primarily...

    I've been boarding into the IT/ADN package but would like to discuss options. The only way I could see the maindeck approach working is with Past in Flames, but if they bring in gravehate this route seems less enticing.

    Also, Esperblade is much tougher than traditional U/W because of discard (Inquisition/Seize, sometimes Cabal Therapy (!) with lingering souls/snapcaster to sacrifice.) Have you guys been beating esperblade?

  9. #49
    我不是你的英雄。
    Jonathan Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    854

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    If they also have countermagic, I tend to just board out my Wishes for Past in Flames, Tendrils and Empty the Warrens. If they don't, bring in the Infernal Tutor package, as that has more draws that don't care about discard and more insane topdecks.

    The Lingering Souls Blade lists aren't too bad. They neither have much countermagic nor much discard. I played against that deck last week and won 2-0. They have lots of dead cards game one and basically no way to deal with a natural Tendrils kill, unless they run Flusterstorm in the board. I think in this matchup, you can actually keep in Burning Wish. If they don't have Lingering Souls, they're likely to have more disruption instead, which is much worse. I like that those decks have a slow clock, so that gives you lots of time to set up.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

    deckstats.net archive

  10. #50
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2012
    Location

    Grass Valley
    Posts

    43

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    I got top 4 in a 32 man tournament yesterday with this. I faced a lot of burn and U/R delver. I probably should have taken something faster (TES). Here is the list I played:


    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Ritual

    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea

    2 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Past in Flames
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder
    3 Tendrils of Agony
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Burning Wish

    //Sideboard

    4 Infernal Tutor
    3 Chain of Vapor
    2 Past in Flames
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Ad Nauseum
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Infest
    1 Meltdown
    1 Duress

    Round 1: Burn (2-1)
    Round 2: U/R Delver (2-1)
    Round 3: Burn (1-2)
    Round 4: U/R Delver (2-1)
    Round 5: Draw
    T8: Nic Fit (2-0)
    T4: Burn (0-2)

    I was not impressed with thoughtseize, but that could be because of all the burn I faced. Both of the U/R delver games I lost they had the turn one delver.

  11. #51
    我不是你的英雄。
    Jonathan Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    854

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    I really like the look of that list. You seem to be convinced that 16 cantrips is the way to go, so maybe I should try that out. I'm definitely going to squeeze in at least a single Rain of Filth though, that card has been absurd for me. I think I'm going to test this:

    -1 Marsh Flats (Why did you play that?)
    -1 Burning Wish
    -1 Thoughtseize
    +1 Rain of Filth
    +1 Bloodstained Mire
    +1 Cabal Therapy

    /Slightly different sideboard, probably mine:

    1 Ad Nauseam
    2 Chain of Vapor
    2 Extirpate
    1 Empty the Warrens
    4 Infernal Tutor
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Silent Departure
    1 Telemin Performance
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Virtue's Ruin

    Back to Silent Departure and Extirpate because of lots of Reanimator. The one issue I see with the 16 cantrips list is that you might sometimes be too slow, having to cast 3-4 cantrips to be able to go off. That rarely happens with my list, and I really like that. Being able to just sit back and wait is huge. The same is true with Burning Wish, you almost never want to draw multiples, at least in my experience. Has this never been an issue for you?

    Also, nice finish. UR Delver is usually a pretty good matchup. As far as I remember, I only dropped a single tournament match against it so far. But turn one Delver of Secrets is pretty much the only way they can win, yeah. Why did you lose against burn though? That matchup is really easy, you can easily buy multiple turns with a mini-Tendrils (about the only matchup where this is good). Them having creatures obviously makes it a bit worse, but it's still a very good play. Burn is a matchup I really like to play, it's easy and the games don't take long so I can get some food.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

    deckstats.net archive

  12. #52
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2012
    Location

    Grass Valley
    Posts

    43

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    I played the marsh flats because I don't own Bloodstained Mire. I lost in the swiss to burn because g3 he had a faerie macabre that cut me off from Iggy. I went for Ad Nauseam from 8 life and died. In the T4 game one: I could have done a mini-tendrils, but thought I had one more turn. Turns out I didn't have another turn. In game two, I was a turn away from the Iggy loop, but he top decked the bolt for the win. I haven't played the matchup much so it might just be I'm not playing correctly. I really like the 16 cantrips because it synergises with Past in Flames. Do you usually save your cantrips for the combo turn? I usually use them on turns 1-3 and try to combo on turn 4. I could see drawing multiple wishes being an issue. The only time I had multiple wishes in the tournament was against U/R delver. That worked out fine because I just played one to get rid of a soft counter. The duress in the side was going to be ETW, but I accidentally left it at home.

  13. #53

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    How would this deck change with the new Wheel of Fortune - it seems to fit well into this deck

  14. #54
    Psilovibin
    Vacrix's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2008
    Posts

    2,203

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Reforge the Soul could work in here.. but the protection isn't really congruent with Reforge as an engine; you need Chant effects unless you want them drawing into a Force and just stopping you mid spell chain. One dude on the stormboards mentioned a list that plays 4 Silence as protection and has a pretty consistent turn 2-3 kill with Reforge as the primary engine (not including IT/BW/PiF). Not to share his list.. but you guys might want to try running Reforge the Soul.
    Luck is a residue of design.



    I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
    http://soundcloud.com/vacrix


    Expect me or die. I play SI.

  15. #55
    我不是你的英雄。
    Jonathan Alexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2010
    Location

    Germany
    Posts

    854

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    I tried it already. The day it was spoiled, I tested it as a boarding plan for the non-blue matchups, over Ad Nauseam. It sucked, even with more red rituals. I thought it was less restrictive than Ad Nauseam, letting me keep in more Tendrils, but in fact it was even worse. Chaining them seems pretty hard without lots of red rituals, but casting Tendrils off lots of red rituals seems like a bad plan. Whatever.

    Also, still didn't get to test the 16 cantrips list. Maybe next week or so.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

    deckstats.net archive

  16. #56

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Im looking to learn how to play combo in legacy and this deck looks like a great starting point. I have sleeved it up and goldfished a bit, but never seem to be able to reliably storm for 20. I'm sure its because I dont understand all the interactions between the cards in this deck. Jona, have you recorded any of your games playing this deck? I'd love to see what the typical lines of play are.

  17. #57

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    Quote Originally Posted by spacecaptain View Post
    Im looking to learn how to play combo in legacy and this deck looks like a great starting point. I have sleeved it up and goldfished a bit, but never seem to be able to reliably storm for 20. I'm sure its because I dont understand all the interactions between the cards in this deck. Jona, have you recorded any of your games playing this deck? I'd love to see what the typical lines of play are.
    You can't goldfish this deck, I've tried and the only way to get lethal storm with the original build is via past in flames unless you save your cantrips and are able to get to storm ten that way. Having a real opponent is nice, as they will play spells during your turn to interact with your cards.
    Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
    Currently Playing:
    All flavors of storm combo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix
    Lands is a joke for Solidarity. Its like asking a morbidly obese parapalegic to run the mile with his shoes tied.

  18. #58

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    These decklists from the last couple of weeks have changed quite a bit from the original one in the OP, i.e + burning wish and less past in flames maindeck. Also, no empty the warrens maindeck anymore.

    Just wondering if you guys still play the deck in the same way as before, meaning that the primary plan is to do nothing for 3-4 turns, then go off with a 8-card hand against whatever your opponent has?

    Or have you begun playing it more aggressively like UBr ANT?

  19. #59
    Member

    Join Date

    Mar 2012
    Location

    Grass Valley
    Posts

    43

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    With the list I use (16 cantrips), I play my cantrips on turns 1-3 and try to win on turn 4. Sometimes you can win on turn 3, but usually that's only a good idea if your opponent is going to kill you the next turn.

  20. #60
    Psilovibin
    Vacrix's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2008
    Posts

    2,203

    Re: Introducing: Grinding Station

    How often do you guys go for mini-Tendrils to bide your time? Access to so many copies of Past in Flames seems to secure the win for you given that you'll have your graveyard to go off with, at least the builds that are running 3 PiF.
    Luck is a residue of design.



    I'm an aspiring Psychedelic Trance musician. Please feel free to enjoy my sense of life:
    http://soundcloud.com/vacrix


    Expect me or die. I play SI.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)