Nobody would've known about the comment if they hadn't banned him. That's the only reason this has hit the community at large. Also, what do you think the chances are that some player saying he was going to rape David Stern would be banned for life from the NBA?
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The exact quote:
which translates to:"je violerais helene au worldz pour lui faire payer.."
A) Sounds like a threat to me."I'll rape Helene at Worlds to make her pay".
B) Morally, this is not someone I want representing Magic, and the Pro Tour/Worlds is the highest visibility of representing Magic.
C) Legally, I can't imagine how bad a position WOTC would be in if they didn't ban the guy, and then he actually (god forbid) did go and rape Helene.
So long story short - good riddance. I don't want someone who publicly threatens violence against women (even as a joke) as someone who also represents Magic.
- Ben
Just wanted you all to know that the other mods and I are keeping an eye on this thread and will close it if it turns ugly.
On the topic, file this under "Moronic things to do in the age of the interwebs."
I think WotC's action here is warranted, harsh as it may be. And every now and then it never hurts to send a loud and clear "No, that will not be tolerated in any way or form" message to the player base, provided the penalty is neither arbitrary nor capricious. Doesn't seem like that's the case here at all.
Yeah, I don't think the banning was a deterrant measure (ie, if he was actually going to follow through with the threat, the banning isn't going to stop him), but a combination of damage control for the company as well as sending a clear message to the players that they don't want people who will make those types of statements playing their game.
However seemingly related they are; thinking something and acting on it are fundamentally different. He didn't just think though, he spoke..I guess that's the point of contention. How to interpret someone's words? If a claim is made that a violent future action will be carried out then I think it's very reasonable to look into it and to thwart any potential harm. Unless it's a joke, in which case it was probably just shitty delivery or the wrong crowd.
Words have consequences? Who knew...?
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It would depend. Obviously it's less believable due to male-male rape being pretty rare outside of prison, while male-female rape is a very real and sadly common occurrence. In addition, if a guy just said that he would rape Stern it wouldn't be as serious as if he said a specific time and place that was a trip halfway around the world from him for the rape to take place. I think that's a big part of what caused the ban. I don't think rape is funny, but specifying the exact time and place that he was going to do it gave the situation a very "realistic" feeling, to me at least.
If somebody pisses me off and I say "I'm gonna kill you", it isn't great but pretty unlikely. If somebody pisses me off and I say "I am going to stab you with my hunting knife on Tuesday night when I know that you'll be home alone in your house on Maple St.", and it is a fact that he'll be there, it feels quite a bit scarier.
I get death threats on our local MTG forum on daily basis.
What the fuck WOTC? and seriously, grow up with sexual harrasment stuff. Silly Americans.
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That time of month jokes.
On a serious note, I'm not so sure it would have been as serious had he said "I'm going to kill Helen for X and Y reasons" i think that rape is a very sore subject for a lot of people, not just women. Its more common than you would think for children to be molested while growing up so it could be a sore subject for those, and it just would take one person in a high place to really push it through.
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He was unlucky the french have a worse union than the feminists in USA.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
So WOTC would open themselves up to a huge lawsuit if someone threatened physical violence against an employee and they let that person participate in company sponsored events. This is most likely a standard blanket policy. Also, they don’t give a crap about this kid and this is a valued employee. Easy ban and the correct decision.
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I keep seeing this argument reiterated by different people. But I'm going to ask that one of you, any one of you, explains what the threat was. Consider this a collective challenge to all the "but what if he actually HAD" crowd.
Let's say I were being interviewed after losing a close game in the T8 and, obviously distraught, I said, "I can't believe I punted that game. I just want to shoot myself in the face!" Would you call the police and place me on a suicide watch because you'd be "opening yourself up to a huge lawsuit" if I then proceeded to actually shoot myself in the face?
Of course you wouldn't. You would accept that what I said was an exaggeration. It was hyperbole. And this is no different. It wasn't a threat. It was hyperbole. It was some guy blowing off steam. Was it inappropriate? Of course. But we're all adults here. Supposedly, we're intelligent adults, since Magic is generally considered an intellectual pursuit. You can't tell me that you're smart enough to play competitive Magic and at the same time ignorant enough of social conventions and several hundred years of language to consider what he said a threat.
Now Wizards' can do whatever they want with their OP program. We've seen that they have no problem with that. But the ban is excessive. They guy deserved to be slapped on the wrist. Like Ben said above, you don't want that to be representative of your game. But we differ in opinion from there. It wasn't a very serious offense. Saito can cheat his way into money and he gets a year and a half. He'll probably still make the Hall of Fame eventually. What does that say about Wizards of the Coast and about those of you that support this action, that you think making a statement in poor taste is a far worse offense than the de facto theft of tens of thousands of dollars? How, exactly, do you rationalize that one? I really want to know.
I guess where you and others like myself disagree is on the severity of the offense.
To me, it's not 100% clear that he didn't intend anything by his statement. I also don't see why WoTC should care to dig deeply into this. If they want to send a message of "we don't want people who make statements like this playing our game", that's their business (and I'm ok with this message).
Simple fact is that Florent made a public statement threatening violent action towards one of WoTC's employees and they acted in the way they thought fit.
To those who argue that there should be legal action taken if WoTC really thought he was serious, we don't know if there was or not yet.
While cheating is terrible for the game, in the end, it's still just money vs someone physically / emotionally getting hurt. That being said, if Saito (or anyone) had been proven to be caught cheating at multiple tournaments, I'm all for a lifetime ban as well. I also believe Saito's punishment was light, but that's a discussion for another thread.
If you're rushing to this guy's defense, step back a second and think about what you're condoning.
As someone who came back to the game as an adult (because its one of the best games going), I have been simultaneously impressed and depressed at the state of the community. for every well-rounded, considerate adult I find (mostly in the Legacy scene), there's some loser who loves to skip showering, stuff his face with greasy food, being a total degenerate for Magic. the latter kind of player is often also the as-offensive-as-possible-at-all-times chap. and you wonder why so few women play Magic? its because at least half of us are inconsiderate asshats.
here's a tiny thought experiment: imagine Mr. Florent's was directed at your kid sister. or your widowed mother. still think its funny? rape is only funny to you because you will never suffer it. rape provides a lifetime of trauma and sexual anxiety for its victims. so sure, yuck it up. rape is a joke. right. (other popular topics: gays and aids! so much class!)
this is exactly the kind of message WotC should send regardless, but it is especially appropriate given that this clown was about to be flown to a high-profile event on their dime. good riddance.
(and yes, had he threatened a male employee with death (or, how about castration?), he should also have been banhammered, family company or not.)
Warfordium, get back to work you lazy prof. I can see you not working and surfing Magic forums from here! I can very easily just stop writing your cheque, or throw my EDH deck at you :P
Regarding this, sure, he may have been joking. Unfortunately, the internet doesn't convey sarcasm all THAT well. It's not like no one has ever said "I'll rape your family" when you get blown out by the only card left in the deck that could have your opponent win the game. But, you should know the person you're saying terrible crap like this to (this includes "I'll kill/rape/maim your family/you/your pets/siblings, I'll cut you, I'll dump your body in a ditch, etc.).
I would have done the same thing as WOTC. Joke or not, how do I know he's not a rapist?
-Matt
No, but if you had lost as the result of a judge's ruling, and you said "When I next see that judge I'm going to rape him to teach him a lesson", then I would expect you to be banned for life from DCI events, and if I were that judge I would have a restraining order taken out against you.
- Ben
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