Did WoTC do this right?

[Esper3k]

Been seeing this across a couple sites recently and figured I'd post it in the Community board since it's MTG related.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/player...ards-employee/

Was WoTC correct? I personally think what they did was fine. Have a harsh policy on things like this because the one time it's not a "joke" and they didn't do something about it, then that's when the big trouble starts...

[Ahab]

The comments are hilarious:
-RAPE IS NOT A JOKE
-IT WAS JUST A JOKE
repeat.

[catmint]

Yes. Nobody should be allowed to joke about raping a woman.
It's also close to a criminal offense.

[OurSerratedDust]

Yeah, I fully support Wizards on this. What an idiot.

[caiomarcos]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...earchid=280833

[Richard Cheese]

Why is it French players that seem to be screwing themselves royally lately?

[clavio]

I agree what he did should have been punished but a lifetime ban seems too steep. Im sure something like a two year ban should be enough to teach him a lesson.

[SpikeyMikey]

Rape is no laughing matter... Unless you're raping a clown.



Debating over whether or not the threat was a joke or even over whether or not rape jokes are funny or acceptable (I imagine you can figure out my stance on that last question) is missing the point entirely. This reminds me a great deal of the Wescoe/Levin situation. It's obviously not a credible threat. Nobody of any intelligence is going to threaten to rape someone over a public forum and then go through with the act. It would make getting caught a certainty. If you were planning on some sort of violent act against an individual because of their actions, you would either threaten them anonymously (magazine cut-out letter, untraceable email, etc.) or not threaten them at all.

Since it's not a credible threat, it was probably just something to get attention. He said something shocking designed to grab attention because he was unhappy with Helene. Wishing bad things on people is a time-honored tradition that dates back long before the internet, and while it's not the most pleasant part of our civilization, it's rarely actually harmful.

A lifetime ban seems excessive, but then again, so did the disqualification of Drew Levin. Wizards' is not really known for their common sense.

[troopatroop]

So unbelievably wrong. The guy raped noone! It was a joke taken too far. This is unbelievable to me.

[Koby]

A lifetime ban seems excessive, but then again, so did the disqualification of Drew Levin. Wizards' is not really known for their common sense.

To be fair, removing a huge portion of the Organized Play hierarchy also seems excessive, and doesn't make any common sense when profits are at an all time high.

Back on topic, WotC did the right thing. The threat of violence and malice should be enough to warrant a ban. It is the criminal's stupidity that linked him to the threat.

[SpikeyMikey]

To be fair, removing a huge portion of the Organized Play hierarchy also seems excessive, and doesn't make any common sense when profits are at an all time high.

Back on topic, WotC did the right thing. The threat of violence and malice should be enough to warrant a ban. It is the criminal's stupidity that linked him to the threat.

The thing was, it wasn't a credible threat. If I say "Ruckus, if I ever see you, I'm going to punch you in the nose", are you going to feel threatened? Probably not. Given the circumstances, it seems unlikely that I'm actually going to punch you in the nose.

[kiblast]

Umh, I don't get this. While I find the joke rather idiot, I think it's absolutely clear that it's a joke and nothing else. And it should be obvious that it's not possible to punish someone for a joke regarding a criminal offence, if no criminal/illicit action was involved.
That's just plain dumb and exagerated.

[Esper3k]

The thing was, it wasn't a credible threat. If I say "Ruckus, if I ever see you, I'm going to punch you in the nose", are you going to feel threatened? Probably not. Given the circumstances, it seems unlikely that I'm actually going to punch you in the nose.

The situation is different though.

You guys "know" each other from this board at least and can casually speak to each other. Florent claims he knew her, but we haven't heard any evidence supporting that.

Second, he's making this "joke" after being clearly very upset. It'd be like Rukcus doing something to piss you off first, then you posting on here saying "Rukcus, I'm going to go to the next tournament you're at and fuck you up to make you pay for what you did."

Finally, there's still the general policy decision aspect. I think that Wizards has to respond to things like this harshly because if they don't and the one time some crazy idiot does actually follow through with their threat, WoTC is going to have some major issues on its hands.

[betterthenandrew]

Yes. Nobody should be allowed to joke about raping a woman.
It's also close to a criminal offense.

Couldn't agree more. I really don't see why people are even discussing this, what he did was so far out of line. I would be upset if he didn't receive the lifetime ban. That's all I have to say on the subject. I think that is all there is to say on the subject.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Makes me think of the threads on here about JVL smoking bowls.

Doesn't he technically work for Wizards?

Is this a good image for a family company?

[I am the brainwasher]

I think that they overreacted on that but they kinda had to, because it is nearly impossible to filter out kids/youngsters in forums which might get some bad influence via this, besides thats a topic which should not be made of, especially when it points (even if its a joke) at real life persons.
In general I am quite confused why it is possible then to read comments on TheSource like: I would kill for card X/Y (example: ... a black Brainstorm) etc. without getting actual feedback/penalties from WotC.
I mean if you really want to go that far, it is some kind of threaten to the cards creators life and the design team as well. Sure that sounds (and is also) stupid but I can see some similarities in terms of exaggerating things to an extend that doesnt make as much as it should be.
I do not know how true the prejudice about americans beeing super sensitive about sexual things in public really is, (and it is not my concern if its the case or not) but that also might have took a small role in terms how the judgement on that guy was, also.
Regardless of that, I can understand the step they took and it is their responsibility because of the agegroup the game has and how big Magic is in general and how influential forum activity is on younger players.

[Esper3k]

I think that they overreacted on that but they kinda had to, because it is nearly impossible to filter out kids/youngsters in forums which might get some bad influence via this, besides thats a topic which should not be made of, especially when it points (even if its a joke) at real life persons.
In general I am quite confused why it is possible then to read comments on TheSource like: I would kill for card X/Y (example: ... a black Brainstorm) etc. without getting actual feedback/penalties from WotC.
I mean if you really want to go that far, it is some kind of threaten to the cards creators life and the design team as well. Sure that sounds (and is also) stupid but I can see some similarities in terms of exaggerating things to an extend that doesnt make as much as it should be.
I do not know how true the prejudice about americans beeing super sensitive about sexual things in public really is, (and it is not my concern if its the case or not) but that also might have took a small role in terms how the judgement on that guy was, also.
Regardless of that, I can understand the step they took and it is their responsibility because of the agegroup the game has and how big Magic is in general and how influential forum activity is on younger players.

I can explain the difference between the example you used with the Black Brainstorm vs the current situation.

The "I'd kill for X" statement is an American colloquial term meaning you really really want X.

Also, the statement under discussion was directed at a specific person - not only that, an employee of WoTC.

[Koby]

Also, the statement under discussion was directed at a specific person - not only that, an employee of WoTC.

The crux of the decision. It's one thing to say "R&D are a bunch of idiots. They need to retire." and "Tom LaPille needs a permanent 'vacation'."

The player chose to call out the individual by name with a threat of violence.

[Sims]

Couldn't agree more. I really don't see why people are even discussing this, what he did was so far out of line. I would be upset if he didn't receive the lifetime ban. That's all I have to say on the subject. I think that is all there is to say on the subject.

Next time I see you I'm going to Rape you.

[Picc]

I'm coming down on the side of excessive punishment (seems like Hasbro legal is engaging in cya). I mean really do any of us believe this was anything more then something stupid said on the internet. Honestly if people are going to get banned for stupid things said on the internet I suspect we might as well throw out our DCI cards now, we've all been guilty at some point.