So one of the Top 8 decks in the SCG Open had a Jitte in the main. I'm currently on 16 lands, 2 forked bolt, 2 pyroblast and I'm going to start testing with 1 pyroblast and 1 Jitte. Has anyone else had experience with a mandeck Jitte?
I've tried Jitte in some pretty sketchy pre KtK lists, and I can't imagine it being horrendous. I'm not sure if that's what the deck wants to be doing though, it's pretty slow and small creature decks shouldn't be that unfavorable that we need it I believe. It's probably great in the mirror, something that I haven't tested as much, but it's also easy to get blown out with it.
In the last week Jacob Wilson posted a list with 17 lands and 2 wastelands, there were quite a few 16 lands lists at the SCG Open and some people (lead by Caleb Durward I believe) are playing 0 daze to go harder on the burn plan. Where is everyone else standing on this?
I'm playing 16 lands with 3 Forked and 1 Fire // Ice and I've been happy with it, though Fire // Ice is a pet card of mine and maybe should be Pyroblast or PoP, specially with 16 lands in the deck. I've tried wastelands in the deck and don't think they belong there, and I don't think running stuff like Fireblast gives you enough of an edge in the matchups that you need it.
I'll be Cruisin' all weekend long at the GP!
This is the list that I played at the GP. I placed 23rd at 12-2-1 losing the final round to MUD to not make Top 8.
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells (32)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Forked Bolt
2 Pyroblast
Lands (16)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
1 Mountain
Sideboard (15)
2 Electrickery
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Price of Progress
2 Pyroblast
2 Smash to Smithereens
1 Hydroblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sulfuric Vortex
R1: Bye
R2: Bye
R3: BUG Delver (2-0) (Overall: 3-0)
R4: Death and Taxes (Craig Wescoe) (1-2) (Overall: 3-1)
R5: 4C Deathblade with Humility (Kennan Hass) (2-0) (Overall: 4-1)
R6: UWR Stoneblade (2-1) (Overall: 5-1)
R7: Grixis Tezereator (2-1) (Overall: 6-1)
R8: BUG Delver (1-1-1) (Overall: 6-1-1)
R9: UWR Stoneblade (2-1) (Overall: 7-1-1)
R10: BUG Delver (2-0) (Overall: 8-1-1)
R11: ANT (JD Nir) (2-0) (Overall: 9-1-1)
R12: 12 Post (Jerimiah Rudolph) (2-0) (Overall: 10-1-1)
R13: UR Delver (2-1) (Overall: 11-1-1)
R14: UR Delver (2-1) (Overall: 12-1-1)
R15: MUD (Joseph Sartomassino) (0-2) (Overall: 12-2-1)
More details
R3: BUG Delver (2-0) (Overall: 3-0)
He was my second loss at the Open last week so I figured he was on a similar list. I knew that he had Engineered Plague.
He won the roll. He mulliganed to 6.
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Price of Progress
+1 Pyroblast
-4 Daze
-1 Force of Will
R4: Death and Taxes (Craig Wescoe) (1-2) (Overall: 3-1)
I won the roll and presumed that he was on Death and Taxes. I decided to play around Wasteland and I got punished by never drawing a second land or a cantrip.
+2 Electrickery
+2 Price of Progress
+2 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
-2 Pyroblast
Game 2 I had a flipped Delver and a bunch of permission and won fast.
Game 3 I ended up misplaying. He had a single draw step on turn 3 to be exactly Flickerwisp. When I went to Smash to Smithereens his Vial at the end of his 4th turn, he blinked it and that small exchange was enough to lose me that game and the match. He also Swords to Plowshares'd his own creature in response to my Sulfuric Vortex which got him above death by 1.
R5: 4C Deathblade with Humility (Kennan Hass) (2-0) (Overall: 4-1)
He had a deck registration error in which he wrote down Elspeth, but did not classify which Elspeth, resulting in him losing game 1. Game 2, I had 2x Daze to his 2 land keep and just got smashed by Delvers and Swiftspears.
R6: UWR Stoneblade (2-1) (Overall: 5-1)
Game 1 I won the roll and mulliganed down to 5. He had an early True-Name Nemesis (He shockingly chose me) and he eventually killed me with an Umezawa's Jitte .
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
-2 Forked Bolt
I mulligan to 6. I play a Swiftspear and attack for 1.
He plays Flooded Strand and passes.
So, I Gitaxian Probe him on Turn 2. He has:
Kor Firewalker
Dig Through Time
Red Elemental Blast
Tundra
Karakas
Volcanis Island x2
I play a Ponder. Then I cast a Pithing Needle. After no response, I name Flooded Strand and bash in for 4. The Time Walk ultimately kills him as I can establish a Young Pyromancer and get a lot of damage in.
Game 3 is just a few small fights over a Delver and a Swiftspearand his slow hand ultimately kills him. He misplayed at one point where I cast Swiftspear into Treasure Cruise. My opponent cast Flusterstorm on my Treasure Cruise with 3 mana open on his side. With my last untapped land, I cast Flusterstorm each copy targeting one of his. He chose not to pay and I drew three cards. He could have easily paid for one copy.
R7: Grixis Tezereator (2-1) (Overall: 6-1)
I won the roll and he mulliganed to 6. I kill him really fast game 1, I knew that he was on UB Tezzerator, but I had an aggressive draw, so I didn't see much more than lands, Baleful Strix and a Jace.
+2 Price of Progress
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
-4 Daze
-2 Forked Bolt
-2 Lightning Bolt
Game 2 he mulliganed to 6 and he resolved an early Chalice of the Void. He showed me a bunch of cards with Dack Fayden and the Thopter Sword combo. I eventually died to it.
+2 Lightning Bolt
-2 Pyroblast
Game 3 he yet again mulliganed to 6. I had a double Swiftspear, double Force of Will draw and just ran him over.
R8: BUG Delver (1-1-1) (Overall: 6-1-1)
Game one is pretty long and drawn out. I overwhelm him with a Delver and a Young Pyromancer that he does not draw answers to.
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Price of Progress
+2 Pyroblast
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
I board in an additional Pyroblast because I saw True-Name Nemesis.
Another long and grindy afair. He kills all my creatures and eventually me with a flipped Delver.
Game 3 I get my opponent down to 3. He has a Delver with Jitte and I Treasure Cruise into 2 lands and a Force. We end up drawing because I can still win if Delver flips and hits me and he can win if that happens and I don't kill him. It is rather close and we agree that the draw is best.
R9: UWR Stoneblade (2-1) (Overall: 7-1-1)
My opponent kills me rather quickly game 1 after dispatching all of my threats.
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
-2 Forked Bolt
I have a fast clock with a Swiftspear into Delver.
My opponent only has three lands and has a Verdict and Pyroclasm, but no red mana. I get yet another player on Pithing Needle on Flooded Strand. He eventually draws a Volcanic Island. He casts Pyroclasm into a Swiftspear and an unflipped Delver. I Flusterstorm it so that my Swiftspear will live. He ends up Spell Piercing the copy and lets his Pyroclasm get countered. He then casts Treasure Cruise and dies.
Game 3 I have a fast clock. I Smash his Jitte. and then Bolt plus some creatures kill him.
R10: BUG Delver (2-0) (Overall: 8-1-1)
Nothing too different than normal.
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Price of Progress
+1 Pyroblast
-4 Daze
-1 Force of Will
I kill him Game 2 with back-to-back Price of Progress. After he kills my first threat.
R11: ANT (JD Nir) (2-0) (Overall: 9-1-1)
Game 1 he Therapies Daze, misses. Casts a second Therapy on Force and passes. I have Monastery Swiftspear. I cast a bunch of burn and then Treasure Cruise into the second Force, pitching my third Force.
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+1 Pyroblast
-2 Forked Bolt
-2 Lightning Bolt
-1 Monastery Swiftspear
Nothing too exciting early. I hold mana open on the early turns. I cast Grafdigger's Cage and then set up a big turn with Swiftspear into while holding up a Pyroblast and hiding an additional one on Top with Brainstorm. He casts Ad Nauseam while at 5 life, flips over Flooded Strand, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, Ponder, Lotus Petal. When he plays out everything and Ponders into Infernal Tutor with 4 mana floating, I win because of the Tendrils having been discarded to Lion's Eye Diamond.
R12: 12 Post (Jerimiah Rudolph) (2-0) (Overall: 10-1-1)
I probe him on the first turn, after he leads Cloudpost. I see a hand of:
Bojuka Bog
Eye of Ugin
Misty Rainforest
Karakas
Glacial Chasm
Cloudpost
I end up having counters for both his Show and Tell and his Primeval TItan.
-4 Daze
-2 Forked Bolt
-1 Young Pyromancer
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Price of Progress
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
The game is not very eventful. I cast a T2 Young Pyromancer. I cast a Force. I cantrip. He fetches. I cast Vortex. He Repeals it. I recast it. I Price of Progress him. He dies.
R13: UR Delver (2-1) (Overall: 11-1-1)
This matchup is really swingy and usually just is determined by who resolves the first Cruise.
+2 Electrickery
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
-1 Young Pyromancer
These games are boring and nothing interesting happens.
R14: UR Delver (2-1) (Overall: 12-1-1)
This matchup is really swingy and usually just is determined by who resolves the first Cruise.
+2 Electrickery
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Hydroblast
-4 Daze
-2 Force of Will
-1 Young Pyromancer
These games are also boring and nothing really interesting happens.
In game 3, I Force a Young Pyromancer, putting me at 3. He casts a Brainstorm, I Pyroblast. He casts a Lightning Bolt. I Flusterstorm. I believe he was playing around a hardcast Force. I draw a second Swiftspear and hit him for exactsies with Pyroblast.
R15: MUD (Joseph Sartomassino) (0-2) (Overall: 12-2-1)
Game 1 I win the roll. I lead Delver against his Cloudpost. I cast a second Delver and start the beats. I have double Force of Will, so I Force'd his Chalice. He has a Cavern on Construct and resolves a Kuldotha Forgemaster. I end up not using Force of his first artifact, expecting a worse one to follow up. It did, but it was protected by another Cavern. I end up getting my Delver blocked by a Platinum Angel and can never kill it.
-4 Daze
-2 Forked Bolt
-2 Pyroblast
+2 Grafdigger's Cage
+2 Price of Progress
+2 Smash to Smithereens
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Sufluric Vortex
Game 2 I lead with Swiftspear. I follow it up with a second Swiftspear and I opt not to Force the Chalice on 1, because my hand consists of Young Pyromancer, Treasure Cruise, Treasure Cruise, Force of Will and Price of Progress. I want to hold Force for Wurmcoil Engine, but after he Caverns Golem and resolves a Lodestone, he plays another Cavern the next turn on Wurm and casts an uncounterable Wurmcoil, which I Force for Treasure Cruise fuel. I end up dying because I get greedy with Treasure Cruise instead of trying to race with Smash to Smithereens.
I've been playing UR delver for the last six months and I play weekly legacy tournaments at my LGS.
A few of the guys there play miracles and I find that this is probably toughest match up.
Last night I did horrible and lost all of my matches and all but one of my games.
What advice do you guys have for a newbie trying to take on some well established miracles players?
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mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn
Play merfolk and make Miracles your bye
I'm not the most experienced with the deck but I've done pretty well against some decent Miracles players.
In my experience it's all about patience, you almost never want to have more than one threat in the board so they don't 2-for-1 you with terminus (the big exception here IMO is if you have a swiftspear in play plus one on hand, can't really fuel the first one and they have a high life total since you do need to pressure them) and you usually don't want to fight the removal until they are low on life or you're very low on resources, and sometimes not even then. Pyromancer is your best threat here, playing it and immediately getting two tokens forces them to have Terminus which is great for you since they don't tend to play 4 and finding one takes time.
Daze anything you can since they can play around it very well most of the time and save your forces for CB and Entreat. Jace, DTT and a key Terminus are also decent targets but don't rush it, you can easily force a Jace and then loose to a resolved CB.
Post board you should be bringing Vortex (I play 2), blasts and some way to stop top. My plan usually is "deal as much damage as fast as possible while trading 1 for 1 and once the coast is clear land a Vortex". I think it's usually right to protect the Vortex since it'll win you the game by itself. You need to be somewhat careful since this deck doesn't deal with unboltable creatures very well and I've lost a game to entreat for 1 after a couple of Probes with a vortex in play once.
I'm an outsider when it comes to this deck, but has anyone considered running 1/2 copies of Flame Jab?
It transform every land you draw into an extra burn spell (eliminating dead draws) and can help develop your board quickly when combined with Young Pyromancer. Sure, 1 damage a pop isn't anything to get too excited about but it does have some synergy with Swiftspear/Pyromancer and lets you dump surplus lands you draw off TC (helping you to fuel the next one).
It also seems like a nice tech in the mirror or vs. Elves. Kind of like a mini-Punishing Fire.
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Little bit too YOLO for my taste, lol.
What was your SB plan for the main decks in the meta? I'm going to basically steal this list after not playing legacy for a few months, just need to buy Swiftspears and TCs.
I'll also probably run Smelt over Smash to Smithereens, but otherwise, I'm likely going to run this same 75.
Smelt doesnt hit chalice@1 and, thus, is unplayable IMO.
In the mirror side out countermagic (force going first, daze if going second) for creature removal and pyroblast. Save pyroblast for delver or cruises, don't bother hitting cantrips.
Pithing needle is for top.
When in doubt, probe is your flex slot. Against white decks you can side out a treasure cruise if you think they're bringing in RIP.
You can't beat batterskull so side in smash against every white deck except miracles, just in case. It'll usually find something.
mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn
Winning through a chalice is actually pretty doable; depending on the board ofc.
I Already won through it a few times, without smashing it or getting it off the board otherwise. As long you have a swiftspear or a Delver on the board already, and play a pyromancer, game is still pretty winnable, since this guys will still trigger, regardless of your spells being countered. And playing a PoP in the Mainboard is also a big thing there G1 :) By the way, regarding Artifact hate, i am running 1 Smash and 1 null Rod. Rod is just extremely sick.
Another thing:
I am still thinking of adding 2 Submerge to my SB, because i made the experience, that some big hitters get extremely annoying, especialy our best 20/20 Friend named Marit Lage. A friend of mine is a extremely good Maverick player, and is currently running Punishing Maverick + Stage/Depths Combo and in 6 of 10 Cases, i still loose with having him on 3-4 Life, because a big spaghetti Monster is coming out of nowhere. A Tarmogoyf without having a Pyromancer ony my side also doesn't seem cool, and Tombstalker is just annoying. I probably would have to put out 2 Bloodmoons for them, but i don't really want to do that, since its a instant win versus some decks.
Also, i am thinking between Lavamancer, Pyrokinesis and Electrickery. Lavamancer is nuts in some Matchups, but can shut off Cruise (mostly boarding 2 out when i bring him in). Pyrokinesis is awesome since it can take out a 3/3 and 1/1 at the same time, and electrickery is also pretty sick. Still, can't decide properly.
Your thoughts?
I always wonder if Dismember is better than Submerge?
I know the older UR Delver decks were more tempo so your life total mattered significantly more, but now that we're more aggro, is it worth 4 life to just have goyf be dead? Perhaps it's still submerge though, just need enough time to get through with Swiftspear 1 more time.
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