Do you like casting spells and drawing cards?Originally Posted by Brentane
U/R Delver is for players who really like interaction. What I think that is amazing of this deck is that it has no impossible matches, not that I've played yet (my meta isn't as diversified as a SCG open for example).
The U/R Pyromancer (it's more important than delver in this, I think) sounds really different from the usual UR Delver playstyle, I've played it and didn't really like it... guess they sound similar but the way you should play them is very different (UR Delver without PoP isn't the same). It's more grindy and relies a lot on the board, as your burn spells are made to go downstairs, instead of upstairs.
If you like killing only with creatures, go with the UR Pyromancer. With the UR Delver list, usually your creatures get there in the early game, and in the late game they just hold back enemy's creatures, since opponents will usually be with low life. Then you finish them off with burn spells (Chain, bolt, PoP and in some cases Thunderous Wrath/lava spike)
I have send you a mp
Can you share your list again ? Iam having troubles with sideboarding against: miracles, elves, rug, burn and DeT
What you consider siding in, and out in you last u/r delver list ? thx !
Have been testing the deck with quite some promising results.
I play 2 Chain Lightning and 2 Forked bolts in the main deck.
My question however is whether it is worthy to include Stifle to the main deck. I`d happily cut the chains and maybe a Probe and a Force for the play set. Daze just seems so out of place quickly as our opponents make their land drops without any problem.
I run Bob's Swiftspear/ Delver/ Pyromancer list.
I normally NEVER play daze in my first turn. I use daze to protect my YP drop in 2 turn and to counter an early gofy or SFM.
Iam not running stifle in my corrent list. I just think it doesnt fit in the aggro version, with no wastlands
ty
I think the problem about stifle is that you have to hold spare mana, and you should be playing spells all the time. Also, there's no wasteland. Maybe if you try running wasteland, but then it kinda goes against your gameplan.
Now, about the UR Burn list: I'm thinking of fitting in Dig Through Time instead of Treasure Cruise. Bob's list is more about spells density, while burn should be about spell quality. Pros and cons:
Pros: You may chose 2 between 7 cards. AND IT'S AN INSTANT!!!
Cons: It costs at least UU. It gives you only 1 card advantage instead of 2 cards advantage
What I'm thinking here is: You will be able to play both of them only about T4. Now, at T4 your opponent should be about 10 life if everything goes by your plan. If they are a combo deck, if they haven't they will probably be about to combo, or if they are aggro they may be casting a big threat. With TC you will use the spell on your turn and get 3 random cards. With DTT you will be waiting for the opponent's move on his turn, and may cast it in response in case he does something. If he doesn't you may just cast it EOT and search for the burning pieces you still need to finish him off. The probability to get at least 1 burn and 1 cantrip to find another is huge between 7 cards, while in 3 cards you might just get none of them.
Even if UR Burn seems redundant, it's not that redundant. I mean, most lists only run about 10 burn spells (mine runs 14), and you have about 50% chance of getting one with TC. With dig through time you have much more chance to get what you need. AND IT'S AN INSTANT!!! I think that alone compensates the fact that it's UU. I mean, when you are able to cast TC you will probably be able to cast DTT.
Also, the problem remains the same: SCM and DTT in the same deck. BTW, I think that's a huge problem. I thought about a 3/3 splash, but then again, it's 6 cards that do absolutely nothing but pitch for FoW until turn 3/4, in a deck that is supposed to be the fastest Delver deck. I mean, if you get 2 of any combination of these 2 in the initial hand, the game may be really hard on you, as your deck relies on early pressure then finish off with burn. What if you don't get that early pressure?
I'm thinking of running some combination of DTT/SCM on the SB so that the first matches against fast decks don't be so problematic, with 6 cards that may only be used after T3
Also, what do you guys think about Blood Moon? I mean, we already got PoP, but it isn't auto-win against some decks, as blood moon is. Maybe sideboard?
You are mixing two different decks.
U/R with Snapcaster is slower than U/R with Treasure Cruise and you cannot play them the same way.
If you are playing with TC, Monastery and Pyros, you really want to spend all your mana in playing spells in your turn and if you play with Snapcaster, you want to re-use your best spell in your graveyard at the end of your opponent turn
I think you misunderstood me, I'm talking extrictly about the UR Burn list, not the UR Pyromancer with swiftspear. My point in that post is how to insert TC and/or DTT in the deck with Snapcaster... I mean, I think there should be some management about it so that the deck has the best overall results, and now with TC and DTT we can't just ignore them, that's too much power for the UR Delver Burn deck.
And yeah, obviously I agree that they are completely different, UR Delver must burn up and sometimes down, while UR Pyro will usually only burn down and trust on the board to win the game.
I think if you want to play UR Burn, you drop Snapcaster and run 4x Delver, 4x Guide, 4x Swiftspear and 4x Cruise. I would probably try to get a couple Fireblasts in there too, just because of how dirty good it is with Cruise.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I've been toying with the idea of running wasteland + stifle in some numbers, since I'd like to have a few more ways to interact with what my opponent is doing, and making daze a live card for a few more turns sounds great. I haven't found the right cuts or numbers yet though.
Yes, I misunderstood you
You cannot run in MD 4 TC and 4 SCM. I have tried 2 TC and 4 SCM but I love U/R Pyro
Good idea, changing the SCMs for swiftspear sounds really great. I'm just not completely sold to the Cruise instead of DTT idea. Being able to chose 2 among 7 cards sounds really great to me, even more at instant speed!
Well, I was thinking about a splash between them, but I haven't really had experience running both in the same deck to know how would be the better splash. Anyways, I think I will just replace the SCMs and run it with 4 swiftspears instead!Yes, I misunderstood you
You cannot run in MD 4 TC and 4 SCM. I have tried 2 TC and 4 SCM but I love U/R Pyro
Stifle won't grow your Monastery Swiftspear when you want him to grow. He'll grow reactively during the opponent's turn or at end of your turn instead. Goblin Guide doesn't work well with the Stifle/Wasteland plan. If you want red hasty critters you have to give up something and Stifle seems like the best thing to give up. If you really want Stifle/Wasteland with the Monastery Swiftspear then Gitaxian Probe is the obvious sacrifice. That's a huge sacrifice.
Alright, so Stifle remains in the binder ;)
I am planning to play a tournament in two weeks and since I have never been there, I am unfamiliar with the meta.
Running the UR Pyro list, what sideboard would you recommend?
Right now it is
2 Grafidggers Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Bloodmoon
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis (Card Disadvantage. Good vs Elves, DnT, the mirror)
2 Smash to Smithereens (Chalice is a pain in the ass!)
2 Submerge
However I do not know if this is the way to go.
Did some testing, and my intuition tells me that 1-2 SCM is probably the most that is supportable in a 4 TC shell. I want to run 1 SCM so I can extend the range of burn spells, and get some free wins with PoP.
I'm also firmly in the PoP side of PoP vs Blood Moon spectrum.
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I'm not so sure. I think Price's application is good, but I think it could be overly redundant as a finisher against decks and match-ups that are already decent to begin with. A card like Blood Moon flat-out wins games on its own against troublesome match-ups like Lands and Turbo Eldrazi, in addition to having similar application against BUG. Price does a lot of damage against BUG, sure, but Blood Moon wins the game flat-out once resolved like it does in those other match-ups.
I just think the deck needs Blood Moon as a win condition to hammer those strategies ill-prepared to deal with it. Don't get me wrong, Price is very powerful, but I think it depends more on what you're looking to accomplish. I hate losing to decks like T.E. and BUG, and I think Moon gives the deck reach to crush those match-ups in one fell swoop, no questions asked.
It's just wondering it now, wouldn't it be good playing blood moon along price? I'm thinking of a possibility of turning G2 and G3 into a prison deck against fair decks, with 4 Ensnaring Bridge and 4 Blood moon, both of them would lock the game against Delver, Jund, Bug, etc. Sounds kinda lame, but I've tried doing this only with the bridges and it worked in some games (others not so well because of Abrupt Decay). The gameplan would be hold the game with counters and burn spells killing their critters until you cast bridge or blood moon. Obviously the game would be slow because you would rely only on burn to win the game.
I know it would be kinda against the original gameplan of killing them fast, but PoP still deals damage with blood moon online, and with blood moon their wastelands wouldn't destroy their non-basics.
PS.: I already run 3 ensnaring bridge as side against almost every deck except non-creature-based combo and it works really well!
Price wins you those games.
Blood Moon stalls out those games. Against some versions Turbo Eldrazi, Blood Moon is merely a road bump. Price forces them into action (got Crop Rot into Chasm?).
It could well be a matter of playstyles too. Blood Moon punishes slow decks; the kind of decks that are ill-equipped to deal with quasi-burn decks. Price closes the gap in those matches and gives the deck a true trump card. Its mana cost and type reflect the ability to steal games.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Double post.
I also feel like PoP works best in lists with goblin guide. Though still very powerful without it.
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