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Thread: [Deck] U/R Delver

  1. #1

    [Deck] U/R Delver

    Hello all,

    Before the deck list or anything else, I would like to preface this by saying thank you to all of the people of this webstite who have helped shaped the basic shell, and given card suggestions to make this deck as strong as it is. Without you it would still be the random crap I thought of at 2 Am after work.

    Special Thanks to Kich for agreeing to help with matchup analysis.
    The original Deck list.

    //Creatures
    4 Delver of secrets
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Grim lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster mage
    2 Vendilion clique

    //Plansewalkers
    2 Jace the Mind sculptor

    //Instant
    4 Lightning bolt
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    //Instant/Sorcery(cards that can be changed amongst each other)
    4 Ponder/Stifle(meta dependant)

    //Lands
    4 Volcanic island
    4 Scaldng Tarn
    6 Island
    6 Mountains
    4 Wasteland


    This was the list I originally tested. After play testing and discussion on these boards, we have figured out a basic shell for the deck. These are the cards that given no budget concerns or lack of cards, that should appear in all versions of the deck.


    //Creature: 11-12
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3-4 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster mage

    //Instant: 8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt

    //Lands: 8
    4 Volcanic island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    //Core Total: 27-28 cards


    This list here is the core to the deck whether or not you are playing a more aggro approach with more creatures, a control version with JTMS and force of will, or more burn with Price of progress and Chain Lightning.

    Another thing that has come up through testing and has been discussed here is the mana base. I believe that a more basics approach is the better route, this is not yet proven and in fact arguably false. The two Mana Bases that are being considered right now are:

    //Option one with variance on the fetches or basics.
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Arid Mesa
    4 Island
    4 Mountain
    // Or Option 2 with less basics and a heavier Fetch Base With variance again on exact number or specific fetches
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    4Arid Mesa
    2 Island
    2 Mountain


    Now this leaves a Large amount a deck space to building around your meta.

    After assembling the core of the deck and the Mana Base, you are going to have a lot of room left over So down here I am going to make a list of 'goodstuffs' that can be added in the blank spots to make up the deck of your choice. One of the great things about the deck so far is that after the 'base' you have a lot of room to customize it to how you would like to play, at least until it is more thoroughly tested and proven.

    Goodstuffs: This list will grow as more and more cards are proven in different builds if you suggest a card and it is not listed here, no disrespect intended, I just haven't had the chance to test it or add it to the thread yet.
    First up Goblin Guide. This card is amazing in the more aggro based lists. A hasty 2/2 for with almost no drawback. The aggro it provides can be ridden to a victory if protected, or even be a sponge for removal before you drop Delver. Recommended for the Aggro Control, and Aggro-burn Variants.

    Next we have Vendilion Clique. While many times this card does not see play in the main deck of many decks it is a power house card. A 3/1 for with flying, flash, and the ability to cycle either a card from your own hand, or a problematic card from an opponents hand. Recommended for the Control Builds only.

    Not to be outdone we have Jace, The Mind Sculptor. I Do not think I need to describe the raw power of this card. As legacy players we know just how powerful the card is and just what kind of craziness it is capable of. Recommended for the Control Builds and Aggro-Control Builds. It is far far too slow for the Burn setups.

    Continuing the Trend of good Bluestuffs we have Force of Will. While some would consider it a necessity, it is becoming more and more apparent that is not the case. In a more burn Centric Build it takes up slots that could be better filled. However, In Aggro-Control, Counter-Burn and Control Variants, it should be the first (or second after jace) card considered.

    C-c-c-c-combo breaker time for a red card Price of Progress In reality this card should be the first red card considered to be added in the Burn variants. In the current meta Mana bases are getting greedier making this card more and more desirable. Recommended for the Burn, and Counter-Burn Variants.

    Enough of the funny titles I'm not that creative Surgical Extraction. One of the most abusable cards with Snapcaster mage, the ability to use it once on a nasty card that your opponents use, and to then be able to flash it back is monstrous. In some of the decks that are popular they are very light on threats 2-4 different threats in the entire deck, Removing all copies of two of them, from one copy of the card is an amazing utility(this is the only non- or card on the list of goodstuffs. Recommended for the Mainboard of Control Variant and to be considered in the sideboard for ALL variants.

    Chain Lightning. The burn spell of choice after Lightning Bolt and Price of Progress. Self Explanatory. (aka I dunno what else to say here) Recommended for the Burn and Counter-Burn Variants.

    Daze. A Free Counterspell is always good. Recommended for the Control, Counter-Burn, and Aggro-Control Variants.

    Magma Jet. A filter spell that also is a burn spell. This is a win win Situation. Recommended for the Burn, Counter-Burn and Aggro-Control Variants.

    Ponder. A good filter spell or shuffle effect if needed. Recommended for the Control Variant, as magma jet is better for the burn, counter-burn and Aggro-Control Variant

    Stifle. Great against storm and extremely greedy mana bases.

    Spell Pierce. Another Control/aggro-control card. Also possibly the counter-burn builds. Weaker than daze the first time, stronger the second due to being cheaper to flash with snapcaster.

    Spell Snare. Counters CMC 2. In the current Meta 2 costs are powerful, Counters opposing snapcasters and stops goyfs, confidants, Burning Wish, Tutors, etc etc. Just an insanely powerful card in the Control/Aggro-control, Possibly also in the counter-burn styles.

    Repeal. Utility Bounce spell. Great for bouncing problematic small cards or even tokens. Card Draw is a plus, and can be draw a card for if it comes to it. Recommended for the Control and Aggro-Control Variants, until further testing proves it better elsewhere.

    I will post a sample decklists shortly, I would like those who have suggested the different variants to post what they think would be a optimal list for the style they like, and I will post it here with Credit Given to Originators, Also Match Up analysis to Follow soon, More testing is being done before I post anything definitive in that field.

    Control Variant Sample Decklist: Featuring more Basics Mana Base By Beatusnox

    //Creatures: 13
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    2 Vendilion Clique

    //Plansewalkers:2
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    //Instant: 22
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Surgical Extraction
    3 Daze
    3 Fire/Ice
    2 Repeal

    //Sorcery:3
    3 Ponder

    //Lands:20
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Arid Mesa
    5 Island
    3 Mountain
    //Deck Total: 60


    Counter-Burn Variant Thanks to Troopatropp Featuring the less basics more fetches mana base.


    //Creatures: 12
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Grim Lavamancer

    //Instant/ Sorcery: 29
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Price of Progress
    3 Force of Will
    3 Daze
    4 Spell Pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder

    //Lands: 19
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    //Deck Total: 60


    Burn Variant Thanks to Kich867 Featuring a Hybrid of both Mana bases

    //Creatures: 10
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    //Spells: 30
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Fireblast
    4 Price of Progress
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    3 Magma Jet
    3 Ponder
    2 Chain of Vapor

    //Lands: 20
    4x Volcanic Island
    4x Scalding Tarn
    2x Misty Rainforest
    2x Arid Mesa
    5x Mountain
    3x Island

    Remember that Sample lists are only samples. This is still a very new Archetype so the kinks are being worked out and optimal lists have not yet been established. It is just to give you a jumping post to start from, as this thread continues to grow the lists will become firmer and firmer. Outside of Playtesting, any tournament reports made of this deck(any variant), Will be posted and Credit Given to whoever it was, no matter how well you placed. Going over tournament reports that have mistakes that are pointed out helps others grow to avoid those mistakes and it helps designers of the deck try to find ways to shore up any holes and weaknesses either through main deck fixes or sideboard cards.



    Well Placing Decklists: The lists here are proven to perform well in a competitive environment.

    //First Place Starcity Games St. Louis Piloted by Andrew Shrout

    //Creatures 14
    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    //Instant: 21
    2 Fireblast
    3 Price of Progress
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Force of Will
    3 Spell Snare
    2 Daze
    4 Lightning Bolt

    //Sorcery: 7
    3 Ponder
    4 Chain Lightning

    //Lands:18
    2 Island
    2 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa
    3 Misty Rainforest
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Volcanic Island



    //Second Place Starcity Games Invitational Piloted by Adam Prosak

    //Creatures: 14
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Vendilion Clique

    //Instant: 18
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Force of Will
    1 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Spell Snare
    3 Fire/Ice

    //Sorcery: 9
    3 Gitaxian Probes
    2 Ponder
    4 Chain Lightning

    //Lands: 19
    2 Island
    2 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Wooded Foothills
    4 Wasteland
    4 Volcanic Island


    Both of these Lists were piloted through an extremely competitive meta. I will add more later have to get up in about 4 hours for work <_<
    Thanks again for all the help to everyone.
    Last edited by Beatusnox; 12-15-2011 at 03:38 AM. Reason: Fixing OP to make real primer

  2. #2

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Looks like a Standard Tempo list for me, except that you
    .) left out the third color, which is not bad, because you get a much more stable mana base
    .) therefore loose Goyf and Mongoose and replace them with Goblin Guide
    .) have at least some things going for a lategame in the form of Jace

    Now I don't think you can play the "stick a threat and then play the permission game with Wasteland, Stifle and Daze" if your threat happens to be Goblin Guide, because they will just draw into more lands quicker. Maybe you just need a little more burn to give you more reach to finish them off quicker, because you have no way of beating Goyf or KotR once they resolve. So your gameplan should be to not let that happen by delaying their strategy and killing them before that happens, which makes you actually a tempo deck. I don't think you can play control without a way to beat creatures with toughness 4 or greater.

    Also, I don't get why you would play 24 (twenty four!) lands. That's the amount of lands a pure control deck with 4 Jace and other mana intensive threats would play. You are two-colors only and have a lot of basics, so you can't get color screwed that often. Oh and Wasteland are a must in such a deck btw. The color issue you mentioned can be neglected completely. It's just 4 colorless sources in a two color deck. People play 21 lands in a deck that needs BB, G and UU and they can support 4 Wastelands as well. You also need more fetches, at least 8 to make Brainstorm more effective and to make sure you don't flood too often. I don't think that you ever want more than 4 lands in play, but with your mana base, if you don't kill them early, you will wind up with way too many lands. I would play something like that:

    [21 Lands]

    4 Wasteland
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Island
    2 Mountain


    That gives you at least 3 more spots for things like Fire/Ice or Chain Lightning or such.

  3. #3
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    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Price of Progress + Snapcaster Mage is U/R is Legacy right now. Delver too obv, but I like the "burn" approach.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Price of Progress
    3 Fireblast
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder

    4 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Wooded Foothills
    1 Island
    1 Mountain

    Hasn't really let me down yet. I can beat Midrange easily with PoP + Snappy, and Aggro with Burn + Grim. With everyone looking at Red, wondering where the 2 drop is, look no further. Combo is good against me with this build, but I figure to hell with it. It's not worth running Force of Will over Fireblast in this deck, and our clock is respectable. It's really remarkable how good this decks' turn 4's and 5's are. With Counterbalance almost completely out of the picture, and with Tempo decks sporting Delver, Burn is as good as it's ever been. Board for Combo, pray you beat randomness, and Price good decks for the win. It's strangely brutal...

  4. #4

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    I am considering changing the title to U/R Snapcaster and listing both the more burn centric and control centric versions. What are you guys opinions on that? Also I agree that we are land heavy but disagree on more fetces i understand they make brainsorm better but strength against moons and stifles is a huge key(at least in my area) maybe in the main post will put the both versions for meta variance?

  5. #5

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    perhaps you could find the middle road? Light 'em up burn + Force of Will & Stifle? Cutting Daze seems acceptable, given that its a nonbo with your snatch master. You should definitely run Fire/Ice. Also, some number of Magma Jets in exchange for some number of Ponders might be hot.

  6. #6

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    That's interesting, I actually just a few nights ago built a very similar list after a friend pointed out that the White in my R/W/U list wasn't doing much for me.

    //Creatures: 10
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Grim Lavamancer
    3x Snapcaster Mage

    //Spells: 28
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Force of Will
    3x Counterspell
    2x Spell Pierce
    2x Spell Snare
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Magma Jet

    22 Land

    That may or may not be 100% accurate, I'm just doing it off memory..

    After some play testing, it basically boiled down to this: Prioritize countering their threats over burning them, burn things that will be big later early on, save burns for things that aren't that big and won't grow later, use burns EOT.

    I was somewhat astonished to find out that Chain Lightning was not in fact an instant (legit didn't know that until I built the deck haha).

    My list is a very Counter-burn style list, but I'm quite influenced by the way more burn oriented lists that I'm seeing. I'd recommend running fewer duals and more basics in the PoP lists, if you don't run counterspell and you have no double color requirements (which is true) there seems to be no reason not to run more basics and just fetch as necessary for them.

    If I had to run it, I'd run something like Troopatroop's list, get some more basics in there, and try and fit 2-3 Magma Jet's somewhere. I'd probably drop Ponder's for them. I'd rather have instant speed filter that does damage, ponder would be grabbing burn's anyways. In my experience with the list I posted, Magma Jet was phenomenal every time I cast it. I was excited to see it and extensively used it with a Brainstorm follow-up. Nothing quite like EOT turn 3 Magma Jet -> bottom deck 2 cards you don't want > brainstorm. It gives you the opportunity to dig hard and a little more precision over what's on top of your deck (not a fan of shuffling with Ponder, we already have enough shuffle from fetches).

    I agree that wastelands seem iffy, I'd rather win than slow them down. Wastelands slow down an otherwise very fast deck--it would hurt to not be able to sac double mountains to fireblast because we have a wasteland on the table.

    Troopatroop, do you just play your list super aggressively? Do you burn creatures at all or just to the dome?


    PS -- Troopatroop am I just horribly dumb or is the list you posted only 51 cards, I count 35 spells and 16 lands. Given that's the case, just run a 3/3 split of Magma Jet and Ponder, then it's just an absurd win/win.


    On a side-note, can we please call this deck Snap-Crackle-Pop (Snapcaster, Lightning Bolt / Chain Lightning, Price of Progress)? It seems way too fitting.

    --- Edit:

    This is the list inspired by troopa that I just made:
    //Creatures: 10
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Grim Lavamancer
    3x Snapcaster Mage

    //Spells: 30
    4x Brainstorm
    3x Fireblast
    4x Price of Progress
    3x Spell Pierce
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    3x Magma Jet
    3x Ponder
    2x Chain of Vapor (could be Echoing Truth as well)

    20x Land (With such a low curve I saw no reason to run 22 lands)

    Maindeck bounce seemed viable, I'm not sure which I'd run, probably Echoing Truth just for the sheer utility of it. It hoses lots of token generation, multiple goyfs / delvers, enchantments and artifacts mainboard that would give us problems like Energy Field.

  7. #7

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Right now i am on my phone so its a pain to edit the op tomorrow when I get out of work I should be able to use a computer fix a more comprehensive op. I think ponder for magma jet. Daze for fire/ice cut wastelands for 4 more fetches.

    For a sideboard we could transform into either more control or more burn for matchups the control is not needed. Using price of progress and chain lightning to burn harder. While if more control is needed bring in spell pierce or snare and maybe flusterstorm depending on meta. Definitel surgical xtractions and tormods.

  8. #8

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatusnox View Post
    Right now i am on my phone so its a pain to edit the op tomorrow when I get out of work I should be able to use a computer fix a more comprehensive op. I think ponder for magma jet. Daze for fire/ice cut wastelands for 4 more fetches.

    For a sideboard we could transform into either more control or more burn for matchups the control is not needed. Using price of progress and chain lightning to burn harder. While if more control is needed bring in spell pierce or snare and maybe flusterstorm depending on meta. Definitel surgical xtractions and tormods.
    I feel the sideboard should be mostly dedicated to combo. Mindbreak Trap, flusterstorm, with a selection of graveyard hate (probably surgical since it's flexible), that leaves 2 flex-spots depending on your meta.

  9. #9
    3-point-shooter

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    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    This is the decklist I am starting to playtest. The only MUs I can think of that will suffer from adding blue are against Tempo decks (Stifle + Wasteland). However, normal Burn is not favored against Tempo either. Any idea to improve this MU?

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Force of Will
    3 Fireblast
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Price of Progress
    3 Magma Jet
    1 Daze

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Steam Vent
    2 Island
    3 Mountain

    4 Surgical Extraction
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    4 Smash to Smithereens
    3 Flusterstorm
    On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
    Yep DCI/Wizards never fails... those that cry the loudest wins!

  10. #10

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Quote Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc View Post
    This is the decklist I am starting to playtest. The only MUs I can think of that will suffer from adding blue are against Tempo decks (Stifle + Wasteland). However, normal Burn is not favored against Tempo either. Any idea to improve this MU?

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Force of Will
    3 Fireblast
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    3 Spell Pierce
    4 Price of Progress
    3 Magma Jet
    1 Daze

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Steam Vent
    2 Island
    3 Mountain

    4 Surgical Extraction
    4 Red Elemental Blast
    4 Smash to Smithereens
    3 Flusterstorm
    Just out of curiosity what's the singleton steam vent for over volcanic island? I believe the goal against tempo would be to hopefully be able to fetch for basics and ride on those. Play around stifle, they'll keep mana open to stifle if they've got it, just keep playing lands and waiting them out, sculpt a solid hand, the moment they tap out, start cracking those fetches.

    I just noticed that we've developed somewhat of a core to the deck, there's about 4-6 flex spots depending on whether you run 19, 20, or 21 land (22 seems like way too much).

    Our lists only differ in that where I have ponder and bounce you run Force of Will. My deck doing that would run 19 blue cards, I would keep a singleton echoing truth over daze. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'm almost not even sure what I would be willing to ditch to force of will, I don't want to drop a snappy, a delver, or a brainstorm to force.

    Something about having 10 card filters feels solid, we'll always have business, I feel like Force (from playtesting in my previous list) frequently makes you pitch Brainstorm to it since the other cards are too important, which means down the line when you need more stuff, you're not finding it.

  11. #11
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    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Two cards that seem to me like they could have interesting application in this archetype are Repeal and Gut Shot. Repeal give you a great option against Batterskull especially, but it can buy some good time against 1 drops too, returning a Nacatl or Aether Vial or something. Being able to flash it back in the late game seems like it could be pretty good to. It seems noticeably weaker on the draw though, when you're behind a mana.

    Gut Shot just seems awesome against Legacy agro - Lackey, Grim, Mother of Runes, Noble Hierarch, Dark Confidant, Dryad Arbor, unflipped Delver of Secrets. It allows you to be aggressive and keep your opponent's tempo in check. It also gives your Snapcaster Mage an earlier target. Maybe it's more a SB card against Maverick and RUG Tempo, but it seems like it has decent application versus many archetypes.

    Fire//Ice strikes me as better than Magma Jet in the control lists. Considering it's ability to pitch to FoW, being able to ping off multiple targets and the Ice ability is more relevant with a lesser clock.

    Just a couple cards that seemed like they might fit the strategy.

  12. #12

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    I am currently testing the control version and while its only goldfishing lately, i hav an average turn 4.5 win through aggro/burn. While before snapcaster, pitcing brainstorm to force was totally unattractive now that snapcaster exists is less of a problem. I am still working atm when i get home i will fix the op and list a basic core. Both land bases and a list of good stuffs to be considered in the flex slots...... So basicaly a real primer lol.

  13. #13

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    If you need any help let me know, I've been playing the deck on Cockatrice with good results.

  14. #14

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kich867 View Post
    If you need any help let me know, I've been playing the deck on Cockatrice with good results.
    Which version are you testing? The more burn centric or control centric? If burn centric please post match up analysis as I am playing the more control based list.

  15. #15

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    I had been testing my original list, I need to build the more burn centric one, but I trust Troopatroop's assertion. My original list was much more similar to a counterburn suite. It was slower to win but still consistent.

  16. #16

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Any help you could give is greatly appreciated. Work lately is making it harder and harder to actively test all variants in any kind of depth.

    Thank you.

  17. #17

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    I'm rather packed this weekend, but moving into next week (so probably around wednesday or thursday) I'll have my playtesting partner build all of the current DTB's and we'll play a few Bo3's with them. I'll try and build my controly version more like yours and I'll play a more burn centric one against them as well and write some stuff up.

    So hopefully I'll have some stuff by friday or saturday.

  18. #18
    3-point-shooter

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    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kich867 View Post
    Just out of curiosity what's the singleton steam vent for over volcanic island? I believe the goal against tempo would be to hopefully be able to fetch for basics and ride on those. Play around stifle, they'll keep mana open to stifle if they've got it, just keep playing lands and waiting them out, sculpt a solid hand, the moment they tap out, start cracking those fetches.

    I just noticed that we've developed somewhat of a core to the deck, there's about 4-6 flex spots depending on whether you run 19, 20, or 21 land (22 seems like way too much).

    Our lists only differ in that where I have ponder and bounce you run Force of Will. My deck doing that would run 19 blue cards, I would keep a singleton echoing truth over daze. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'm almost not even sure what I would be willing to ditch to force of will, I don't want to drop a snappy, a delver, or a brainstorm to force.

    Something about having 10 card filters feels solid, we'll always have business, I feel like Force (from playtesting in my previous list) frequently makes you pitch Brainstorm to it since the other cards are too important, which means down the line when you need more stuff, you're not finding it.
    That lone Steam Vent is for Extirpate effects, which may not be necessary.

    I like the idea of a bounce spell, and as suggested from Cairo, Repeal is a very good candidate. The 1-of Daze is there to make your opponent playing around it.

    Force of Will is still the king against combo and other key-spell decks. I would happily pitch Snapcaster Mage in early games, Delver if I suspect removals, Brainstorm if I have a threat dense hand, Spell Pierce against a spell-light deck, or ANY card if I would lose otherwise. In a meta full of decks with redundancy (Mavs, Thresh, Zoo), Force of Will is indeed very weak.

    Playing cautiously does not turn the Thresh matchup around. I wonder if SB Submerge is what the deck wants.
    On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
    Yep DCI/Wizards never fails... those that cry the loudest wins!

  19. #19
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    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    Quote Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc View Post
    Force of Will is still the king against combo and other key-spell decks. I would happily pitch Snapcaster Mage in early games, Delver if I suspect removals, Brainstorm if I have a threat dense hand, Spell Pierce against a spell-light deck, or ANY card if I would lose otherwise. In a meta full of decks with redundancy (Mavs, Thresh, Zoo), Force of Will is indeed very weak.
    Right. At some point, we run out of "great" cards for this deck, because we're only two color. Force would be another great card to add, but it does NOT fit in with a burn oriented list, because going -1 in cards is fundamentally bad for the 7 card combo deck. Magma Jet really doesn't appeal to me at all, and I find Ponder to be much better.

    Gut Shot, Searing Blaze, Spell Snare, Repeal, Echoing Truth, Fire,and Dismember, are the cards I'm mainly looking at. Goblin Guide is another creature that could be necessary, but I've hated using him against a Brainstorm deck. I wish I had more time to test!

  20. #20

    Re: U/R Aggro-Control

    I work again tonight when I get home I will update the thread for more goodstuffs and a sample of the control version.
    Belcher
    Delver
    Dredge

    When your heart won't beat, your eyes go black
    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

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