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Thread: [Deck] Dragonstorm

  1. #1

    [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Dragonstorm 2011

    Dragonstorm is a combo deck that obviously revolves around getting to 9 mana hopefully after a few ritual spells are cast to win the game by fetching for 3 bogardan hellkite's and karrthus, tyrant of jund to swing in for the win that turn. Or, if the opponent is at 20 or less life you can just nab 4 hellkite's and kill them where they stand. But without further ado, a decklist.

    Lands 21
    4 Steam Vents
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Calciform Pools
    2 Shivan Reef
    3 Island
    1 Mountain
    3 Halimar Depths

    Accel 12
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Lotus Bloom

    Digging for the Combo 16
    4 See Beyond
    3 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Peer Through Depths

    Creatures 4
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    3 Bogardan Hellkite

    Win 4
    4 Dragonstorm

    Countermagic 4
    4 Remand

    Sideboard 15
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
    4 Gigadrowse
    3 Repeal
    2 Wipe Away


    This is the skeleton for dragonstorm IMO and serves as a starting point. What you're trying to do is simple. Get a dragonstorm and cast it, because once you cast dragonstorm you generally win with all these big dudes.

    The Maindeck

    4 Dragonstorm - You want at least one each game. Sometimes 2. Therefore, this is a 4 of.

    4 Ponder/Preordain/Peer Through Depths - Dig for either dragonstorm itself or rituals to fuel it. Not much explanation needed.

    4 Rite of Flame, 4 Seething Song, 4 Lotus Bloom - Best mana accelerants in red. Ideally you'll open every turn one with a suspended lotus so that on turn 4 you explode. Again, not much explanation needed.

    4 Remand - The ideal protection. Also allows you semi control over the stack. If the opponent trys to say mana leak seething song or rite of flame and you don't have the mana to pay and then cast dragonstorm afterwards, you can remand your own spell and just go off the next turn or this turn if you draw a really spicy card off of remand's cantrip ability. Also acts as a stall against aggro decks; it basically reads time walk against aggro if they have no creatures on board to swing with.

    4 Bogardan hellkite - Can be cast from hand if you lack dragonstorm to crush aggro decks in their tracks due to his dealing 5 divided as you choose among their creatures and he's a 5/5 flyer himself so it's hard for them to profitably swing afterwards, especially seeing as how you took down at least 2 of their dudes with the 5 damage ability. His main use though is to be nabbed with dragonstorm to send 5 to their dome generally or amongst their creatures.

    2 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund - Useful with bogardan hellkite in that if you get only 3 copies of d.storm total you get 2 hellkites, dome the opponent and their creatures for 10, then give all your creatures haste to swing in FTW.

    4 See Beyond - Quite useful at digging and is the closest thing to brainstorm in the format. Usually you draw 2 cards then shuffle a dragon back into the library namely karrthus since he is literally the worst draw this deck has, since you can't cast him with your lands no instead you need 2 lotus blooms in play and a land that produces red to actually cast him but usually that means you're losing. But yeah again this is meant to dig for the combo while shuffling redundant combo pieces back in.

    Manabase - 4 Steam vents since we're UR. 4 Scalding tarns since again we're UR and these fetch for basics if need be. Calciform pools/other charge counter lands are useful for building up mana if you have nothing better to do or you need to get up to 9 mana for dragonstorm. Halimar depths is just digging for the combo. Shivan reef is useful at producing both red and blue mana so it's included as a 2 of to colorfix us. Basics are there so ghost quarter doesn't become strip mine and so that we can play around tectonic edge if we need to usually we don't need to.

    Sideboard

    4 Leyline of Sanctity - Good against grapeshot combo and discard. Semi useful against aggro deck's that pack lots of burn as well but the plan there is to usually race.

    2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - King against control decks. When you flash this in on their end of turn step and it resolves you win the game pretty much. No more mindbreak trap or countermagic for them. Only a 2 of because you don't want multiples and it's relatively easy to find with all the cantrips and search in here.

    4 Gigadrowse - Again, this is really good against control decks. You play it on their EoT step, tapping down all their mana sources and they can't do anything about it. The only hope they have after you gigadrowse all their lands is to have multiple mindbreak traps in hand

    3 Repeal - Quite good against aggro. It cantrips, and it slows them down. Also used to bounce hatebears like canonist, gaddock teeg, and meddling mage.

    2 Wipe Away - Bounce for annoying permanents that literally can't be countered in this format due to counterbalance not being a contender due to the axing of sensei's divining top.

    Discuss.
    Last edited by Dark Ritual; 08-14-2011 at 01:35 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Your list doesn't actually have Dragonstorm in it..
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  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    Your list doesn't actually have Dragonstorm in it..
    They'll never expect it!

    Pact of Negation and Gitaxian Probe should probably be here somewhere. Oh, and Dragonstorm.

  4. #4
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    -2 land -1 karrthus -1 hellkite

    +4 dragonstorm

    Probe seems worse than the rest of your dig. Maybe if we cut down on lands and replace remand with pact?

  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    I would play Gigadrowse main. It is so useful and never dead. If rapes control, stalls vs aggro and annoys other combo decks. No reason not to play 2 or 3 main, IMO. See beyond is by far the worst spell in that list. I would mind cutting all 4 for maybe 3 Gigadrowse and 1 something else (Gitaxian Probe maybe?). Also for everyone interested in this deck you should check out the video of Nassif vs Mihara at worlds 2006. Alexander Shearer posted it on ChannelFireball here. It's a good watch regardless but Mihara is playing what appears to be an awful matchup and manages to take it by not overextending and playing dragons one at a time. It might not give you much information on actually playing the deck but there's some good lessons to be learned in it.
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  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    @2rach-I did here a story from Dstorm in standard back in the day. There was a guy that cut the dragons to run extra dig cards and it wasnt until the finals that someone asked him to show the kill and he scooped.

    I was planning on running a straight UR Dragonstorm list. I think the mana is going to be much more consistent. My list:

    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Steam Vents
    4 Cascade Bluffs
    1 Misty Rainforest
    6 Island
    3 Mountain

    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    2 Hunted Dragon
    1 Grozoth

    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe (may become preordain, haven't tested much)
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Remand
    3 Gigadrowse

    Pretty standard UR list, Grozoth can transmute for Dragonstorm. Gigadrowse protects. Probe makes sure the coast is clear, but preordain might be better to dig a little deeper. The board is still up for discussion. Firespout seems like it would be good vs aggro.

    On another note, Dragonstorm won a lot of games by hard casting dragons on turn 3 or 4 instead of storming out. I don't see that happening with Karrthus in the OPs list.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention the best secondary dual option is far and away the filter lands as they can give you UU when you 'drowse and still make red mana for the combo.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Yeah I guess I did leave out dragonstorm's in the original list. The list has been updated; I cut a mountain, a ponder, a bogardan hellkite, and a karrthus for 4 dragonstorm.

    Why run gitaxian probe exactly? What are we trying to do here, we're trying to find dragonstorm + rituals and cast dragonstorm for lethal. Probe just cantrips and is a weak card to try to find a copy of dragonstorm or a ritual when you stack it up against cards like ponder and preordain.

    Gigadrowse in the main isn't needed IMO. You can try running it main sure but it's really only good against control. Based on the bannings, it looks like the format will be dominated by aggro decks. Against aggro you just race them via all the cantrips in the deck to find dragonstorm and rituals. Aggro is cold to the combo of make a bunch of mana and kill you plan. If you really need to stall against aggro, remand a creature of their's on turn 2. And as an added bonus you get to draw a card off of it, quite a powerful ability when it's tacked onto a 2 mana counterspell if you ask me.

    On cascade bluffs. Cascade bluffs doesn't help you if you don't have another colored source while shivan reef is good at colorfixing no matter what unless you're really low on life. It's personal preference really but ATM I prefer shivan reef over cascade bluffs.

    Wow grozoth is techy. Basically acts as dragonstorm #5 in here forgot that guy even had transmute.

    On pact of negation. It is a solid protection spell that at least deserves some spots in the SB at the very least if not maindeck. It even counters mindbreak trap, while remand doesn't nor does gigadrowse. The question is what to cut. Remand is quite powerful for it's stall ability and because making a mana leak cost 2UU makes mana leak look terribad. It could be that we have too much dig spells so we could possibly trim a little bit off like -2 peer through depths and -1 preordain for 3 pact's.
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    Last edited by NesretepNoj; 08-14-2011 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Added tags

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    There seems to me to be two approaches. One plays like Solidarity, which attempts to stall using Remand/Gigadrowse/Repeal, buying enough time to find and build your ramp. The other option seems to be the Charbelcher-like route. Instead of trying to stall, you go off as soon as possible - no protection (Storm, in some sense, has its own built-in protection). Permission overall looks much worse in this format, and that seems to open up the Charbelcher style.

    The Charbelcher, Go for the Throat type combo might look something like this:

    // Lands - 19
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Steam Vents
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Shivan Reef
    1 Halimar Depths

    // Mana Acceleration - 16
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Pyretic Ritual
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Seething Song

    // Win Con Package - 13
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Empty the Warrens

    // Card Quality - 12
    4 Peer Through Depths
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder
    Last edited by 4eak; 08-14-2011 at 07:57 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    I'm thinking Manamorphose could have a place in the deck but I'm uncertain what you would want to cut for it. It fuels EtW like nothing else and filters mana making turn 2 double cantrip easier while still providing gas to make a storm win as turns go by.

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eak View Post
    There seems to me to be two approaches. One plays like Solidarity, which attempts to stall using Remand/Gigadrowse/Repeal, buying enough time to find and build your ramp. The other option seems to be the Charbelcher-like route. Instead of trying to stall, you go off as soon as possible - no protection (Storm, in some sense, has its own built-in protection). Permission overall looks much worse in this format, and that seems to open up the Charbelcher style.

    The Charbelcher, Go for the Throat type combo might look something like this:

    // Lands - 19
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Steam Vents
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Shivan Reef
    1 Halimar Depths

    // Mana Acceleration - 16
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Pyretic Ritual
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Seething Song

    // Win Con Package - 13
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Empty the Warrens

    // Card Quality - 12
    4 Peer Through Depths
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder
    I still don't love playing Karrthus in a deck with no way to hard cast him. One of the 2 or 3 really viable control archetypes run Martyr of Sands and can also run Proclamation of Rebirth. Being able to hard cast dragons to bait WoGs is what allowed Makihito Mihara to beat Gabriel Nassif at Worlds in 2006. (video of the match here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...five-to-watch/).

    Edit: You can also take a page out of Pat Chapin's Worlds 2007 list and run Ignite Memories as well. I think it might be a better win-con than EtW depending on how you want to take the deck.

  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Karrthus is MVP in the Deck. Against aggro and 12 post you face lethal on turn 4 often enough, so you have to go off with storm 3.

    Also I don't know how viable control even is, the format seems to be 50% 12Post, 30% Zoo/Sligh, 10% Combo Abominations like Hive Mind and some random other decks. Only my experience from testing two days straight on cockatrice.

    My list atm.:


    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Ponder
    4 Remand
    4 Preordain
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    3 Gigadrowse
    2 Cascade Bluffs
    4 Dreadship Reef
    1 Scalding Tarn
    4 Shivan Reef
    4 Steam Vents
    6 Island
    1 Mountain
    2 See Beyond

    SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout
    SB: 3 Repeal
    SB: 2 Firespout
    SB: 4 Blood Moon
    SB: 2 Shadow of Doubt
    SB: 1 Gigadrowse

    Pretty standard. Not sure if See Beyond should be Peer Through Depths though.

    Some notes on the sideboard:
    Volcanic Fallout is against Teeg and Canonist, also quite good against SOME Zoo lists.
    However I feel like 3 damage is sooo much better most of the time, but instant speed and uncounterable is key here.

    Firespout is just an additional sweeper. Better against non-hatebear-creatures, since it can take out goyf on occasion and kills Nacatl.

    Not sure what Repeal is really for, I never sided it in. May become some artifact hate, since I ran into several 12 Post lists with Lodestone Golem, Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Metamorph. Shattering Spree comes to Mind.

    The additional Gigadrowse is against 12 Post and controlish decks, and it is awesome.

    Blood Moon slows down 12Post considerably and gives you time to win. I'm not sure if Magus of the Moon wouldn't be better. It can't be dealt with by Pridemage which I've seen main in 12Post quite often. On the other hand Moon is cool against lots of zooish and fishy decks, too, which tend to run Lightning Bolts and the like.

    I removed Shadow of Doubt initially, since there isn't that much tutoring around after all. But I realized it can serve as a timewalk so often, it's not even funny. Against 12Post you can counter Primeval Titan triggers, and Eye of Ugin searching. The greenish builts of 12Post rely on Primeval Titan quite heavily and between Gigadrowse, Remand and Shadow of Doubt you have 10 ways of buying time, while 6 of them also cantrip. Also it is strong against most of the combodecks out there. Still a slot open for debate.


    Edit..And here is proof why Karrthus is awesome. I just got hit by Neo Cranial Extraction Thingy on Hellkites, then Drew Karrthus, cast it off Reef and Bloom and won the game :D. Epic
    Last edited by jjjoness'; 08-16-2011 at 09:08 AM.

  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by jjjoness' View Post
    Karrthus is MVP in the Deck. Against aggro and 12 post you face lethal on turn 4 often enough, so you have to go off with storm 3.

    Also I don't know how viable control even is, the format seems to be 50% 12Post, 30% Zoo/Sligh, 10% Combo Abominations like Hive Mind and some random other decks. Only my experience from testing two days straight on cockatrice.

    My list atm.:


    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Seething Song
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Ponder
    4 Remand
    4 Preordain
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    3 Gigadrowse
    2 Cascade Bluffs
    4 Dreadship Reef
    1 Scalding Tarn
    4 Shivan Reef
    4 Steam Vents
    6 Island
    1 Mountain
    2 See Beyond

    SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout
    SB: 3 Repeal
    SB: 2 Firespout
    SB: 4 Blood Moon
    SB: 2 Shadow of Doubt
    SB: 1 Gigadrowse

    Pretty standard. Not sure if See Beyond should be Peer Through Depths though.

    Some notes on the sideboard:
    Volcanic Fallout is against Teeg and Canonist, also quite good against SOME Zoo lists.
    However I feel like 3 damage is sooo much better most of the time, but instant speed and uncounterable is key here.

    Firespout is just an additional sweeper. Better against non-hatebear-creatures, since it can take out goyf on occasion and kills Nacatl.

    Not sure what Repeal is really for, I never sided it in. May become some artifact hate, since I ran into several 12 Post lists with Lodestone Golem, Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Metamorph. Shattering Spree comes to Mind.

    The additional Gigadrowse is against 12 Post and controlish decks, and it is awesome.

    Blood Moon slows down 12Post considerably and gives you time to win. I'm not sure if Magus of the Moon wouldn't be better. It can't be dealt with by Pridemage which I've seen main in 12Post quite often. On the other hand Moon is cool against lots of zooish and fishy decks, too, which tend to run Lightning Bolts and the like.

    I removed Shadow of Doubt initially, since there isn't that much tutoring around after all. But I realized it can serve as a timewalk so often, it's not even funny. Against 12Post you can counter Primeval Titan triggers, and Eye of Ugin searching. The greenish builts of 12Post rely on Primeval Titan quite heavily and between Gigadrowse, Remand and Shadow of Doubt you have 10 ways of buying time, while 6 of them also cantrip. Also it is strong against most of the combodecks out there. Still a slot open for debate.


    Edit..And here is proof why Karrthus is awesome. I just got hit by Neo Cranial Extraction Thingy on Hellkites, then Drew Karrthus, cast it off Reef and Bloom and won the game :D. Epic
    Wow, i need to read cards better, Karrthus gives the dragons haste. I'm sold.

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eak View Post
    There seems to me to be two approaches. One plays like Solidarity, which attempts to stall using Remand/Gigadrowse/Repeal, buying enough time to find and build your ramp. The other option seems to be the Charbelcher-like route. Instead of trying to stall, you go off as soon as possible - no protection (Storm, in some sense, has its own built-in protection). Permission overall looks much worse in this format, and that seems to open up the Charbelcher style.

    The Charbelcher, Go for the Throat type combo might look something like this:

    // Lands - 19
    1 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Steam Vents
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Arid Mesa
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Shivan Reef
    1 Halimar Depths

    // Mana Acceleration - 16
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Pyretic Ritual
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Seething Song

    // Win Con Package - 13
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    1 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Empty the Warrens

    // Card Quality - 12
    4 Peer Through Depths
    4 Preordain
    4 Ponder
    I'm fairly certain that without Lotus Blooms, you're going to want to squeeze in 4x Simian Spirit Guide
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  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    The Charbelcher, Go for the Throat type combo might look something like this:
    It could get more agressive...something like:

    Lands

    4 Mountain
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp
    3 Arid Mesa
    3 Scalding Tarn
    2 Stomping Ground
    1 Blood Crypt
    2 Dryad Arbor

    Accelleration

    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Pyretic Ritual
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Seething Song
    4 Channel the Suns
    4 Reverberate

    Utility

    4 Green Sun's Zenith

    Win Package

    4 Dragonstorm
    2 Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund
    4 Bogardan Hellkite
    Last edited by rufus; 08-16-2011 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Wrong Hellkite in list.

  16. #16

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Crimson hellkite is banned in modern sir (as weird as that may seem)

    I'll assume you mean bogadarn hellkites?

  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Do you guys think Dragonstorm decks are better than a possible Empty the Warrens-combo based?

    I am currently testing this list:


    4 Lotus Bloom
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Seething Song
    4 Desperate Ritual
    4 Empty the Warrens
    4 Goblin Bushwhacker
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Steam Vents
    2 Mountain
    2 Island
    2 Ignite Memories
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Shivan Reef
    4 Ponder
    4 Peer Through Depths
    4 Remand
    SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
    SB: 3 Wipe Away
    SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 4 Gigadrowse


    Maybe we could even cut some Bushwhackers.
    Thoughts?

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    SWEET list!!!
    Brainstorm Realist

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  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    SWEET list!!!
    Thanks - it was just for goldfishing, really. Though I find myself wondering about additional support for Green Sun's Zenith...
    Terastadon,Scion of the Ur-Dragon,Woodfall Primus,Gaea's Revenge, Broodmate Dragon, Primeval Titan, Realm Razer,Maelstrom Archangel...

    Edit: it occurs to me that maybe things could be a little more optimized ... the list is pretty bad. Needs more Infernal Tutor and Spoils of the Vault.
    Last edited by rufus; 08-18-2011 at 07:15 PM.

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] Dragonstorm

    How about a mono red build similar to what Pat Chapin ran at Worlds? His list:

    Artifacts
    4 Lotus Bloom (Not currently legal in Standard)

    Creatures
    4 Bogardan Hellkite (Not currently legal in Standard)

    Enchantments
    3 Pyromancer's Swath (Not currently legal in Standard)

    Instants
    4 Incinerate
    4 Shock

    Sorceries
    4 Dragonstorm
    4 Grapeshot
    3 Rift Bolt
    4 Rite of Flame

    Tribal Instants
    2 Tarfire

    Basic Snow Lands
    12 Snow-Covered Mountain

    Lands
    4 Fungal Reaches
    4 Molten Slagheap
    4 Spinerock Knoll

    Already I can see that Seething Song could speed up the average combo turn and Lightning Bolt should be played over Tarfire and Shock as can Lava Spike.

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