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Thread: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

  1. #1
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    [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    This may be outright awful, but having read many N&D threads I'll go out on a limb and post.

    Creatures 22
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Tallowisp
    4 Spectral Lynx
    4 Drogskol Captain
    4 Geist of Saint Traft
    2 Phantasmal Image

    Instants 8
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Auras() 6
    2 Steel of the Godhead
    2 Temporal Isolation
    1 Threads of Disloyalty
    1 Angelic Destiny

    Planeswalkers 2
    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    Lands 22
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Tundra
    3 Wasteland
    2 Scrubland
    2 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Karakas


    Creature/Aura explanations:

    Mother of Runes: Fills several holes. Serves as an early means of defense, protects Drogskol, provides additional evasion when needed. Sadly not a Spirit, but the 1 drop Spirits are indefensible, and Mother of Runes is a great card.

    Tallowisp: Argothian Enchantress (for Spirits) meets Demonic Tutor (for Enchantments). You play 16 of them, so w/e you cast one you can tutor a piece of utility.

    Spectral Lynx: 2/1 for 2, Pro:Green is pretty good evasion versus agro. Maybe a weak spot, I'm open to ideas. On the 'Cards' tag it doesn't show it's Oracle creature type which is indeed Cat Spirit.

    Drogskol Captain: The new Lord from Dark Ascension. 2/2 Flyer grants Hexproof to other Spirits and +1/+1.

    Geist of Saint Traft: The reason to play the deck, it's a huge clock. With Tallowisp you can tutor Steel of the Godhead making him a 4/4 Lifelinked Unblockable so he swings for 8 while gaining you 4. Mother of Runes, Elspeth and Angelic Destiny provide alternate evasion routes.

    Phantasmal Image: Does it's awesome Crystalline+Muscle Sliver impression ala Standard Illusions when you target a Captain. Can easily serve as MD hate against Reanimator and Show and Tell.

    Steel of the Godhead: This one is the best option for the agro plan with Geist or Captain making them Unblockable and Lifelinked.

    Temporal Isolation: Cheap solution to problem creature of CMC>2.

    Threads of Disloyalty: Cheap solution to a problem creature of CMC=<2.

    Angelic Destiny: Another agro option.


    IDK I just brainstormed this after looking at the Dark Ascension preview, the Source discussion of spoiled cards and brainstorming a bit off of the old Extended deck Spirit Stompy. It definitely might not be viable, but I have a soft spot for White Weenie and thought I'd share the idea to see if people had input.

    Thanks for looking.

  2. #2

    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Maybe some Figure of Destiny?

  3. #3
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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    A long long time ago I made a deck called Spirit Truck... and i learned that you can not search for Threads with Tallowisp.

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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by from Cairo View Post
    This may be outright awful, but having read many N&D threads I'll go out on a limb and post.
    I find there to be no harm in posting as long as your willing to work on it, and really would like to know if something of your idea sticks.

    Personally I get a lot out of reading these even if it was a terrible deck that started the conversation. As long as others give a quality response you can learn a lot about the meta, and why some things are doomed to fail from the get go.

    I have nothing to do with moderating this site however, so perhaps they have a different take on this then those who do.

    You MAY get something out of reading through this thread.

    There is a lot of information about running auras in general in Legacy, and a good deal of testing behind it.

    Hexproof will be key.

    There is Pseudo hexproof in the powerful Flickering Ward which you may want to consider.

    Also, Grand Abolisher may be useful to set-up your plan free of counter spells and instant speed removal.

  5. #5

    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Call to the Kindred would be cute, but probably not fast enough.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Thanks everyone for the feedback.

    I think the "engine" curve of Tallowisp into Geist into Angelic Destiny/Steel of the Godhead has potential. Geist is a super powerful Legend that was really looking for a way to swing through protected. The fact that Tallowisp can provide a means of evasion and adds a utility engine seems like an interesting route to pursue.

    I'd like to address all the suggestions people have offered.

    from the Dark Ascension in Legacy thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Tallowisp + Hexproof does instead sound very good with the right enchantments (like Pariah - which is a gigantic "Fuck you!" to damaged-based decks if you use Phantom guys).

    Too bad there aren't enough good spirits to actually support a deck.
    I'd initially listed Phantom Nomad as being pretty strong with Drogskol Captain, aware of it's interaction that damage is constantly prevented, since Nomad retains it's +1/+1 from the lord effect even once it's counters are gone. What I'd missed was recognizing the interaction with Pariah. If one can get this combination down you can't be dealt damage until the Pariah or the Captain are answered.

    Admittedly this is quite a combination of cards sticking - a Drogskol Captain, a Phantom Nomad, and a Pariah, but with Tallowisp to provide tutoring, one could run the Phantom as a 2-3 of and the Pariah as a 1 of only to be pulled up circumstantially when it can provide the soft lock. This strikes me as probably better than the slots occupied by Spectral Lynx.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Maybe some Figure of Destiny?
    I'm interested in this being elaborated on. Figure is an OK agro guy, but offers us no utility. Our actual agro plan is fairly soft, especially on the ground hence the Auras to provide evasion. Also Figure is pretty mana intensive, where I feel like this deck is top heavy to begin with and isn't going to left w/o things to spend mana on. There's a ton of 3cc+ cards in the list as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    A long long time ago I made a deck called Spirit Truck... and i learned that you can not search for Threads with Tallowisp.
    I don't see anything based on their Oracle texts that would indicate that this interaction does not work...

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle
    Card Name: Tallowisp
    Mana Cost: 1W
    Types: Creature — Spirit
    Card Text: Whenever you cast a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may search your library for an Aura card with enchant creature, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle
    Card Name: Threads of Disloyalty
    Mana Cost: 1UU
    Types: Enchantment — Aura
    Card Text: Enchant creature with converted mana cost 2 or less
    You control enchanted creature.
    I mean I could be wrong, but I'm totally missing the grounds on which this doesn't work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freggle View Post
    You MAY get something out of reading through this thread.

    There is a lot of information about running auras in general in Legacy, and a good deal of testing behind it.

    Hexproof will be key.

    There is Pseudo hexproof in the powerful Flickering Ward which you may want to consider.

    Also, Grand Abolisher may be useful to set-up your plan free of counter spells and instant speed removal.
    Thanks for the link.

    Flickering Ward is definitely an interesting option. I was sort of thinking Mother of Runes filled this role, while being a turn 1 drop, where the deck otherwise doesn't have much action. As opposed to being another card that has to attach to an unprotected body. IE it strikes me as preferable to start with Mother -> Tallowisp, rather than Tallowisp -> Flickering Ward. If they have removal you get 2 for 1'd where in the Mother of Runes case, chances are she eats a removal spell, granting better chances for 'Wisp to live, if they don't have removal you're golden in either case. I will try the Ward out though.

    Grand Abolisher strikes me as a good option, because I agree we are soft to counters and removal. I also noticed that with 4 Drogskol Captain, 4 Geist of Saint Traft, 4 Brainstorm, 2 Steel of the Godhead, some Phantasmal Images and a Threads, our Blue count is in the very high teens - which perhaps opens the deck up to a few minor shifts and supporting Force of Will. Force of Will strikes me as more appealing because it provides an answer to Qasali Pridemage as well as random combo that are going to otherwise be major headaches.

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Call to the Kindred would be cute, but probably not fast enough.
    Yea I think I'd rather have Godhead or Destiny at 3-4 mana and be putting a 10ish pt unblockable life swing into action rather than *maybe* bringing out an additional guy the following turn.

    With all these aspects in mind I'm currently thinking of this sort of shell:

    Creatures 15-19
    4 Tallowisp
    4 Geist of Saint Traft
    3-4 Mother of Runes
    2-4 Drogskol Captain
    2-3 Phantom Nomad

    Instants 11-12
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3-4 Force of Will

    Auras 6
    2 Steel of the Godhead
    1 Ice Cage*
    1 Pariah
    1 Threads of Disloyalty
    1 Angelic Destiny

    Lands 22
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Tundra
    2 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Karakas
    0-4 Wasteland
    0-1 Moorland Haunt
    X White fetches

    *Ice Cage seems better than Temporal Isolation a few different ways. It pitches to Force, and far more importantly it can turn off a Qasali Pridemage (force them to pop it) or Knight of the Reliquary. I can't think of too many things that would target the creature that wouldn't blank the Pacifism effect anyway - IE if they have a Mother of Runes or something then it's getting knocked off anyway. A Grim Lavamancer activation would kill the Pridemage since it can't attack and get Exalted, etc. I mean most DTB's targeted effects are removal, so they're not going to target their Ice Cage'd creature.

    This leaves 1-6 Flex slots that could be devoted to other angles of attack/support/utility.

    Some stuff that strikes me as worth considering:

    Planeswalkers - Elspeth or Jace, I had Elspeth in the OP, but most as filler to flush out the list and give a 60 starting point. I don't know that it's best, though it does give an alt plan to the Tallowisp engine and is boss with Geist.
    Phantasmal Image - mentioned in OP
    Meddling Mage - being able to chant QPM or KGrip is appealing
    Trinket Mage - offers the toolbox of:
    Pithing Needle - to answer QPM, Pernicious Deed etc.
    Grafdigger's Cage - we're immune to this card and having it MD puts a hurting to Dredge and Reanimator especially.
    Spell Snare - Qasali Pridemage is the primier/only enchantment hate seeing play right now, Snare doesn't seem bad
    Spell Pierce - Helps answer Deed, GSZ, and Jace if BUG/Nic Fit are big
    Daze - could be considered here too depending on the meta, but setting this deck mana seems bad

    Anyway, thanks a ton for the feedback guys. I'm going to try to test this out some over the next few weeks to see if I can tune something to my liking. I think the trick will be juggling the deck's role, because if it's geared too much in the control direction it looks like bad Blade Control, and too much in the agro direction leaves it soft to too many matches. If one was going to run balls to the wall agro this shouldn't be the choice. I think it does offer a different take on a utility/combo deck though. It offers some things other such decks don't; having Blue is awesome since it instantly pads the combo match ups. Also I think the Nomad + Pariah could prove to help give the deck some breathing room against UR Delver and the RDW deck that took down the latest SCG.

  7. #7

    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by from Cairo View Post
    I'm interested in this being elaborated on. Figure is an OK agro guy, but offers us no utility. Our actual agro plan is fairly soft, especially on the ground hence the Auras to provide evasion. Also Figure is pretty mana intensive, where I feel like this deck is top heavy to begin with and isn't going to left w/o things to spend mana on. There's a ton of 3cc+ cards in the list as is.
    Figure is a potentially threatening 1-drop, and, once pumped, does turn into a spirit. That said, it might not be the best fit for the deck since -apparently- you're looking to abuse Tallowisp.

  8. #8
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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    The reason it doesn't work is actually quite retarded and you can not believe me if you want - but seriously this is why:

    Tallowisp
    Mana Cost: 1W
    Types: Creature — Spirit
    Whenever you cast a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may search your library for an Aura card with enchant creature, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library.

    Threads of Disloyalty
    Mana Cost: 1UU
    Types: Enchantment — Aura
    Enchant creature with converted mana cost 2 or less
    You control enchanted creature.

    Threads is NOT an Aura card with enchant creature it is an Aura card with Enchant creature with converted mana cost 2 or less and thus can't be searched by Tallowisp

    Yes it is monumentally stupid, yes it is counter intuitive - but that's how the ruling goes

  9. #9

    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    At the risk of sounding like a jerk, it might be better to consider this deck for Modern than Legacy. You might be able to use the Tallowisp engine as a replacement for the (banned) Stoneforge Mystic. You lose a couple things, but I think you're likely to come out ahead in a format switch.

    That said, some other things to consider:
    1) Spiritual Visit is a Spirit card in all the ways which are relevant to you, since it will give you a Spirit creature and trigger Tallowisp. It also has Splice, which could make it tempting (especially in Modern) to run an Arcane engine.

    Other possibly interesting Arcane cards that are on color include Blessed Breath, Evermind, Disrupting Shoal, Shining Shoal, and Veil of Secrecy. Disrupting Shoal (in Modern) gives you a turn-0 counterspell in a format which otherwise lacks them. Blessed Breath and Veil of Secrecy give you protection and have Splice.

    2) There are no good one-drops. The best one is in black (Will-o'-the-Wisp). As a person who has wanted a Tallowisp engine to work since it was printed, Spirits needed solid one-drops way more than this Lord they're printing. (Aside: Kamigawa was a low-power block, so there are Spirits which would be good if they weren't overcosted. A good example is Waxmane Baku, which would be a good two drop, or as a 1/1 for W.)

    3) Evershrike costs 5, but its Aura-based recursion thing is an interesting complement to Tallowisp. You would need ways to get in in the graveyard and cheap beneficial Auras for that to be worth it, though. However, being able to snag it out of the graveyard with an Edge of the Divinity on it for 3 is utter nonsense.

    4) If you're most interested in abusing Geist in Legacy, I think that Maze of Ith and Karakas (maybe with KotR/Wayfarer/Crop Rotation abuse) are better ways to go than the unblockable/protection route.

    5) Animate Dead cannot be grabbed by Tallowisp for the same reason that Threads of Disloyalty cannot, and that is a shame. Because Intuition for Geist, Geist, Tallowisp followed by Animate would be interesting to try.

  10. #10
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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Thanks for the replies-

    @Rufus
    Yea Figure might be a good option as 1-2 of to flush out the 1cc slot. Relying overly on a 1/3 is probably too cute.

    Even just goldfishing with the Nomads Pariah combo I found them being mostly dead/underwhelming. I guess it could come up that you "live the dream" and have invulnerability, but it absolutely requiring a Captain stay on board, while taking Tallowisp or crazy luck to get the pieces to hand, much less play is danger of cool things. So I could see a couple spaces going to Figure (or some split with Spectral Lynx) from those slots.

    @Cire on the Threads/Animate Dead

    I believe you. Reading the cards it strikes me as very counter intuitive. And it seemed odd that neither card had it flagged on their respective rulings page, but I guess the fact that it's not an exclusion or anything, just a very literal reading of the card's text there would be no Oracle notes. Thanks for explaining it.

    @Cherub_Daemon

    The deck might work better in Modern I have no experience there, but the core stuff is legal for sure and presumably the level of the field is weaker. I guess we still have the 3rd set of Innistrad Block that will maybe see a 1-2cc Spirit the boost the idea, I may still try playing around testing it, but it probably is a bit short right now. Thanks for also verifying the ruling.

  11. #11

    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    ok so you can't get threads of disloyalty, you can still get control magic. control magic may cost more, but it seems better to me anyway.

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    Re: [Developmental] WU Spirit Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by gkraigher View Post
    ok so you can't get threads of disloyalty, you can still get control magic. control magic may cost more, but it seems better to me anyway.
    Yea that's definitely a possibility.

    Another card I was looking at with some interest from Dark Ascension was Niblis of the Urn.

    Niblis of the Urn
    Mana Cost: 1W
    Types: Creature — Spirit
    Flying
    Whenever Niblis of the Urn attacks, you may tap target creature.
    1/1

    Seems like another good way to push Geist through, tapping a blocker. Obviously it works nicely with the buffs from Drogskol Captain as well, becoming a 2/2 Hexproof Flyer. I don't think it's crazy good, but it might be playable as a 2-of or so.

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