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Thread: R/u/x Blue Sligh

  1. #381
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    For UR Delver decks, and especially with under 30 spells, you're going to want 4 Ponder. It helps set up Delver flips, trigger Swiftspear without giving up a card, find SB pieces, and dig you into more burn.

    With Ponder, 16 lands should be fine. You could cut down a few burn spells and Barbarian Ring. Forked Bolt seems weak as a 4-of. Shocking the opponent (2 damage) is a bad value for a card, and you shouldn't need 4 Forked effects main to deal with creatures.

    Brainstorm + Ponder also lets you consider Thunderous Wrath as a 1-of.
    This deck is R/u Sligh, not U/r Delver. It has more in common with Zoo than with an actual Delver deck.

    This deck has consistency with redundancy. Ponder consumes too much tempo to be worth playing in here. Brainstorm is an obvious exception given what it does to fix hands, but I'm not trying to spend a mana to dig for a card. I want to be spending my mana casting creatures and then burn spells.

    26 spells to flip Delver isn't the best, but that's just how it works out.

    The deck wants 18 lands because it wants to hit 2-3 land drops. The deck doesn't want to be forced into wasting multiple turns during the early game to dig for lands with cantrips. Barbarian Ring (and Fireblast to a lesser extent) smoothes this out by converting excess lands into burn in the midgame.

    Forked Bolt is necessary to deal with early creatures. Maybe the amount ran can be less than 4, but you definitely want to be able to clear out early creatures, especially problems like Mother of Runes, Thalia, Ice-Fang Coatl, Infect creatures, Elves, etc. Rift Bolt is often too slow, and I'm already running Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning, so Forked Bolt is the next best thing. You could arguably split them with Searing Blaze, but the mana cost difference between 1 and 2 is huge here. Unlike Burn, some of my lands are non-basic, and I also run Daze.

    This list, in previous incarnations, has been rigorously tested and has placed me in Top 8 (and some 1st place finishes) numerous times over the years. My win % with it was like 75% or better before I stopped playing magic for a while. I know the metagame has changed and the power level of the format has gone up, but the general structure of this deck shouldn't be changed.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  2. #382
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I didn't mean that this was the same deck as UR Delver or should copy it.

    But you're playing blue over monored for a reason, and a big reason is Delver. Turn 1 Delver is a good way to cheese wins. Delver will be harder to blind flip with only 26 spells. "Delver" tempo decks tend to run 30-ish spells and 10-ish cantrips. The build above will have a significantly lower chance of flipping Delvers. Unless you want a vanilla 1/1, Ponder seems good. Ponder costs tempo, but so does running Merfolk of the Pearl Trident.

    Ponder is also good with Swiftspear, sets up consistent burn draws, or sets up consecutive landfall triggers. You can make it work for Sligh. Thunderous Wrath is another way to generate value by having cantrips. You're just at higher card parity getting 3-5 damage per card, instead of playing Shocks in burn.dec. Getting 2 damage out of a card is too little value for a burn strategy. Clearing blockers is important, but you can still do that with 2 Forked Bolt and all the other burn.

    Edit: Just saw Hanni's response. Congrats on the success with the deck in the past. Did you not notice tempo stumbles when you draw 1/1 Delver and can't flip it? Barbarian Ring helps you get gas lategame, but a cantrip would do the same thing better (on average it's drawing you into a Bolt: UR for 3 damage instead of RR for 2 damage).

  3. #383
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Not flipping Delver sucks, but I want to be casting creatures on turns 1 and 2 (unless I need to cast a burn spell). Casting more creatures is better than wasting turn 2 casting a Ponder to dig for land #2 or flip my Delver. If I cast a Ponder on turn 3, it's not helping to flip Delver until turn 4. I tried to make Ponder work in older versions and it just wasn't worth it. Even at just 2 copies, I still had too many hands flooded with cantrips.

    I understand how critical of a card Ponder is for most blue decks in the format, but it just isn't what this deck needs.

    Sometimes the tempo stumbles with not flipping Delver does suck, but that's just how it goes. I need to be spending mana casting more creatures and burn spells during the first few turns. Sometimes a turn 2 Brainstorm is necessary, but it definitely impacts the tempo of the deck when it is.

    Barbarian Ring is better than more cantrips in regards to hitting land drops early and then having gas in the midgame because it helps me to curve out to 2-3 lands within the first few turns without spending mana on a cantrip. There is no mana available to cantrip early, and I need to hit 2-3 lands naturally. Obviously Ponder is a fantastic card to cast in the midgame, but that's not where this deck is looking to operate at more effectively; it's the early turns that matter the most.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-02-2020 at 10:37 AM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  4. #384
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    How good is the blue for you then?

    Now that there's red Steppe Lynx, what if you just ran Rw Sligh with 8x Steppe Lynx. Then you can just curve out creatures and burn, without losing tempo to unflipped Delvers or cantrips, and you can build to maximize Lynx value.

  5. #385
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    While that is certainly a feasible option, blue does add more than just Delver. Even with 26 spells, you're only slightly less than 50% to flip without the assistance of Brainstorm.

    Brainstorm does a lot to increase the consistency by fixing hands. It's the best spell in the format for a reason. Casting it on turn 3 to toss back excess lands and creatures is a huge boost for the performance of this deck.

    Daze also puts in a lot of work by answering problematic spells that the opponent curves into with no mana investment on my end. The ability to return a land to later enable Hounds as a 2/3 Kird Ape isn't bad either (or to Brainstorm away).

    The blue splash also improves the combo matchups postboard by giving access to Force of Will (and Spell Pierce), where many of the white options are more narrow and less versatile against the field.

    I'm not saying you couldn't trim lands, creatures, and/or burn spells for Ponder, or cut blue for white, and you could certainly still do well with them, but you're going to have a worse version compared to my list.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-02-2020 at 10:39 AM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  6. #386
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    How does Fiery Islet fit into the equation?
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #387
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I'd think I'd rather have a guaranteed 2 damage from Barbarian Ring than a random draw off of the top, and I don't think the deck can afford to run both, but Fiery Islet can tap for blue and doesn't require Threshold, so it's certainly worth looking into.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  8. #388
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I'd think I'd rather have a guaranteed 2 damage from Barbarian Ring than a random draw off of the top, and I don't think the deck can afford to run both, but Fiery Islet can tap for blue and doesn't require Threshold, so it's certainly worth looking into.
    I figured with 18 lands, and only Brainstorm to dig, it might be a way to offset flooding. One thing I didn't consider was it's non-combo with Fireblast, which shouldn't come up too often with only 2 Fireblasts but it might not be worth the risk. The mana-base should *always* allow you to finish off with a Fireblast, it's an important part of stealing wins with Burn (in this case, Sligh.)
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  9. #389
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    For such an in your face deck, wouldn't light up the stage work wonders as card advantage that you sorely need?

  10. #390
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Light Up the Stage is an interesting card that I never got around to playtesting, that could be really good at refueling the deck on turns 3+. It's quite possible that it is worth running, but I cannot say for sure without trying it out. If I ever get around to playing this deck again, it is definitely worth looking into.

    I wouldn't say the deck sorely needs the card advantage though, as it typically has enough gas to finish most games pretty quickly. There are a few matchups where I would love the extra gas though, so again, it's worth considering.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  11. #391
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    So it has taken me a few days to re-evaluate the Hellhounds and higher creature count. The higher creature count hurts Delver flipping a tiny bit, but makes the deck so much more aggressive and consistent. The deck is now capable of flooding the board with aggressive creatures on turns 1 and 2 more consistently, and applies pressure way harder than it did with Grim Lavamancer.

    With that being said, the deck might actually benefit from Light Up the Stage more now compared to previous versions, due to not needing to as efficiently use all of its mana in the first three turns as often to squeeze out 20 damage. It also helps fuel Hellhound and Swiftspear better past turn 3 against removal heavy decks.

    I still don't want the full playset, but I'm willing to trim a couple of Forked Bolt for it.

    I'm also cutting 2 Spell Pierce and 2 Seal of Removal in the board for 4 Force of Negation. 8 free hardcounters + Daze is pretty sick vs most of the combo decks in the format.

    It's possible I could board the Forces now to deal with Chalice, and trim some of the Smash to Smithereens for Price of Progress or Blazing Volley or something, but it will require some testing.

    I edited my decklist on the first page of this thread to reflect these changes.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-09-2020 at 06:05 PM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  12. #392

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Hey Hanni,

    I have always been a avid fan of UR sligh /counterburn type playstyle.
    Even now with the established UR list, im still sticking to it.

    However with the recent additional of Uro/Oko, it has been difficult to stay competitve as control decks stabalize much earlier and have ways to gain life.
    I think the only way is to go even faster and all in with our deck.
    With the printing of the new 1drop Akom dog together with the CA cards like LUTS and even sea-gate stormcaller, i think it is possible.

    What i have been exploring is a "revival" of a past combo that has been deemed inefficient due to having to use 2cards to generate damage.
    However if we think about it, Noxious revival + thunderous wrath is really synergistic with Akom dog and Sea-gate caller.

    The following is a rough list and we can discuss below:

    16lands

    Creatures 15
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Akom Dog
    3 Sea-gate stormcaller
    4 Monestary swiftspear

    Spells 29
    4 bolts
    4 chain lightning
    3 LUTS
    2 Thunderous wrath
    4 Brainstorm
    4 ponder
    3 Novious revival
    1 Fireblast
    4 Daze

    Discussion
    1)I got rid of delver of secrets, mainly because it becomes too slow if it does not flip. (However it is still one of the best 1drop out there for our deck so KIV)
    2)Noxious revival by itself is a card disadvantage and does nothing. However there are afew ways to abuse it and synergizes well with the list.
    -Low land count so if we keep a 1land hand. with a dog or swiftspear drop on t1, we can free cast at upkeep to get back our fetchland, with dog, netting 4dmg and with swiftspear it's free prowess. (Having 1land+noxious revival opening and mulling to 6 for 2lands is essentially the same)
    -Set up of the traditional thunderous wrath combo
    -Use with stormcaller to setup LUTS
    -LUTS into noxious into putting back LUTS on top is very powerful ensuring steady fuel-line.
    -A very obscure line with noxious revival is against combo decks like dredge/reanimator/hogaak/echo of eons/nic fit running rectors/even Uro is putting their key card to top of library at instant speed and 0cost, buying an additional turn.
    3)The reason UR burn/tempo does not use snapcaster is usually due to the mana restrictions. However for a deck that focus mainly on hitting opponent hard early, we dont care about choosing spells and being reactive, we use it proactively with free double bolt. Of cos, copying cantrip for CA is always welcomed.
    4)The deck almost does dmg to opponent's face every turn, so triggering spectacle for LUTS shouldn't be a problem.

    If you wish to, we can discuss further in discord as well (not sure if you are in the UR delver discord?)
    Last edited by Blacksummer; 09-20-2020 at 10:16 AM.

  13. #393
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Interesting strategy.

    Because you posted that, I'll share the "aggro" version of UR Delver I've had in my test gauntlet for most of 2020. It's based on the older burn-heavy UR Delver lists (Chain Lightning, no Wasteland, Prowess aggro), adding Dreadhorde Arcanist as a powerful engine. Arcanist enables the deck to go into burn mode by flashing back mutiple Bolts, or control mode by drawing cards and digging into more free counters. It's a proactive version playing cantrips and burn to enable Prowess, backed by 10 free counters.

    I agree Fireblast/Thunderous Wrath gives a lot of potential for explosive finishes on top of the Bolts and beatdown.


    //Lands: 16
    4 Scalding Tarn
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Mountain
    1 Fiery Islet

    //Creatures: 12
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist

    //Core Spells: 28
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    2 Preordain
    2 Force of Negation

    //Flex Slots: 4
    x Fireblast
    x Thunderous Wrath
    x Forked Bolt
    x Soul-Scar Mage
    x Sprite Dragon
    x Preordain
    x Spell Pierce

    //Sideboard: 15
    2 Brazen Borrower
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Submerge
    1 Blazing Volley
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Pithing Needle


    Lately I've been running a burn package of 2 Fireblast + 1 Soul-Scar Mage + 1 Thunderous Wrath, which can lead to explosive T3 wins.
    For example, with Arcanist + Swiftspear you can Bolt + Bolt flashback + Fireblast for 15 damage (10 burn + 3 prowess + 2 creatures)

    I've also run less aggressive versions with more Preordain and other interaction.

    What I like about this is the core of the deck is just a bunch of good cards, cards that work well in most combinations and matchups. The burn effects are all high damage output per card & mana spent, so you don't have to commit too many resources to the burn plan and have better angles to play for card parity. The high variance slots are limited to the flex slots, and SBing can allow you to switch roles depending on the matchup.

    I haven't tried the Noxious combo. It has potential to turn on Thunderous Wrath, though it's also card disadvantage unless you use another tool like Sea Gate or Arcanist to enable it. I think the cantrips are already enough to use 1-2 Wrath well.

    LUTS could be good here too. Haven't tried it yet. I prefer the precombat cantrips to Spectacle card draw, because of Prowess and Arcanist.

    The deck is obviously weak to T1 Chalice, so there are 6 T0 counters for it main and 4 answers postboard.

  14. #394

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I used to play Thunderous Wrath in my UR Delver/UR Slight list before war of the spork.
    While it was fun to play with, results were kind of mixed.
    Unless you have a Brainstorm, a Wrath in your opening hand is an effective mulligan.
    Noxious Revival seems too situational and slow since it does nothing if you can't even get a Wrath in your GY.
    I tried it with Portent, which at least gives you the opportunity to miracle during the opponents turn and that was still meh.

    On another note, I always disliked Force in that deck.
    It is obviously necessary but the card disadvantage really hurts.
    The best use case for the 2nd Force I drew was mostly to pitch it into the first.
    I ran 3 main and 1+ Flusterstorms in the SB which I quite liked.
    4 FoW + (x >0) FoN seems really painful for the aggro plan especially if you rely on bolts to the face which are typically not blue.

  15. #395
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    With the London mulligan now, there is a 0% chance of having it in any hand of size smaller than 7, so it's only a potential issue in a hand of 7 the rare times you have it and also never draw a Brainstorm. Otherwise even Ponder and Preordain help you set up when you draw it from library, and it's easy to blind Miracle in Volcanic Island.dec.

    I agree it's higher variance though, so I only run 0-1 copies. Fireblast is also a mulligan unless the opponent is at 4 life. They're higher risk but higher reward if you want a faster clock.

  16. #396

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    With the London mulligan now, there is a 0% chance of having it in any hand of size smaller than 7, so it's only a potential issue in a hand of 7 the rare times you have it and also never draw a Brainstorm. Otherwise even Ponder and Preordain help you set up when you draw it from library, and it's easy to blind Miracle in Volcanic Island.dec.

    I agree it's higher variance though, so I only run 0-1 copies. Fireblast is also a mulligan unless the opponent is at 4 life. They're higher risk but higher reward if you want a faster clock.
    That is true.

    Fire Blast on the other hand costs 0 mana and can be used to kill a blocker to get more damage through.
    Still I also dislike it for the same reason.

    Personally I'm not much if a fan of "random" 1/2-offs.
    I just don't like the high variance.

    On topic, if you run blue I would consider some Vapor Snags.
    Snag can really help you keep up the tempo and also protects against random 20/20 tokens.
    Recursion with Arcanist is an added bonus, but usually games where that guy sticks are won anyway.

  17. #397
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Yeah, I mean if you want to play more consistency you just play closer to UR Delver. That's why I have those as "flex slots". It could also be a mix of Preordains / Spell Pierce / Vapor Snag instead if you want lower variance against fair decks.

    I just showed that "burn package" because it's one option to play the deck that's closer to to goal of RU Sligh and also closer to what Blacksummer was playing. It works if you need to race and are OK with variance. That's useful in some metagames where racing matters. For example, I used that version when testing gauntlets for Jeskai Breach and Zirda combo decks. OTP the "burn" version could just race those decks a non-trivial amount of time while also holding up Force, which created significant pressure to streamline those combos (to the point of degeneracy). The racing version seems best in combo heavy metas, threatening a turn 3-4 goldfish while also holding counters. In fairer metas, racing may matter less so other slots would come in.

    Otherwise the main reason I like Force main is because the deck completely scoops to Chalice @ 1 or Trinisphere (other resistors to a lesser extent), and Force is the only reasonable maindeck answer. Some lists will run 2 maindeck Borrower, but you are kidding yourself if you think you can topdeck those Borrowers in time with all cantrips shut off, so I would not want to play those matches without G1 Force. Postboard we can bring in even more answers to beat Chalice.

    The card disadvantage from Force hurts, but Arcanist really helps make it up. I also never cast burn at face until it would add up to lethal or could be recurred by Arcanist. This deck isn't flinging early Lava Spikes at the dome like mono R burn has to.

  18. #398

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Yeah, I mean if you want to play more consistency you just play closer to UR Delver. That's why I have those as "flex slots". It could also be a mix of Preordains / Spell Pierce / Vapor Snag instead if you want lower variance.

    I just showed that "burn package" because it's one option to play the deck that's closer to to goal of RU Sligh and also closer to what Blacksummer was playing. It works if you need to race and are OK with variance. That's useful in some metagames where racing matters. For example, I used that version when testing gauntlets for Jeskai Breach and Zirda combo decks. OTP the "burn" version could just race those decks a non-trivial amount of time while also holding up Force, which created significant pressure to streamline those combos (to the point of degeneracy). The racing version seems best in combo heavy metas, threatening a turn 3-4 goldfish while also holding counters. In fairer metas, racing may matter less so other slots would come in.

    Otherwise the main reason I like Force main is because the deck completely scoops to Chalice @ 1 or Trinisphere (other resistors to a lesser extent), and Force is the only reasonable maindeck answer. Some lists will run 2 maindeck Borrower, but you are kidding yourself if you think you can topdeck those Borrowers in time with all cantrips shut off, so I would not want to play those matches without G1 Force. Postboard we can bring in even more answers to beat Chalice.

    The card disadvantage from Force hurts, but Arcanist really helps make it up. I also never cast burn at face until it would add up to lethal or could be recurred by Arcanist. This deck isn't flinging early Lava Spikes at the dome like mono R burn has to.
    Yeah I guess it comes down to the meta and personal preference.
    I played I think like 2 Abrade main and Smash to Smithereens in the side.
    Abrade was ok but never really good.
    I agree that Borrower is not a good plan.
    That said if you play some 2+ drops like Nemesis, Dragon, Stormchaser Mage, w/e you can still put up some pressure.
    However that is not a slight deck anymore IMO.

    I'm still mad that it's a landfall dog this time and not a cat.
    Even though they refuse to print a 2 mana cat lord I'm itching to play thundercats again at some point.

  19. #399
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    In regards to LUTS vs Ponder, usually the plan on turn 1 and turn 2 is to cast creatures. Especially now with my creature count up to 16, that's pretty consistently what the deck should be doing. Sometimes you'll need to cast a burn spell instead, especially if the opponent plays a creature that demands an immediate removal spell (like Mother of Runes), but typically the first two turns you should be casting creatures.

    This is one of the reasons for running 18 lands. I don't want to be cantripping until turn 3+ unless I have to. By turn 3+, it's usually not a problem to cast a burn spell to the opponent's face, enabling LUTS pre-combat to pump Swiftspear. I really want to able to hit my first two lands drops naturally (without relying on cantrips), as often as possible. Barbarian Ring helps increase consistency towards this by allowing me to run a higher land count while helping to alleviate mana flooding in the midgame by converting into a burn spell. Being uncounterable and a colorless source of damage can also be relevant.

    I prefer the guaranteed burn of Barbarian Ring over the random draw off the top with Fiery Islet, but I do respect the fact that Islet can provide both blue and red mana. In either case, I'd much prefer to run 2 of either land with 18 total lands than to trim down to 16.

    The deck has consistency with redundancy to not need too many cantrip effects, but at least in the case of LUTS, it provides card advantage. It's also relevant that it costs red instead of blue, making it much more reliable to cast with my manabase.

    As far as Uro/Oko goes, the plan is to race the opponent down before those slower cards become effective. The Sligh version I run can consistently goldfish by turn 3. You need to be as aggressive as possible to get under the midrange decks. Daze also does alot of work at fighting against 3cc+ spells like Uro and Oko. A lot of times Ice-Fang Coatl doesn't have deathtouch until it's too late, and if they flash one out before it does get deathtouch, we can potentially hit it with Forked Bolt to still do a point of damage to the opponent as well.

    I don't dislike the idea Smash to Smithereens postboard vs midrange. Hitting Arcum Astrolabe can make it difficult for the opponent to escape Uro, and hitting food tokens while the opponent doesn't have the mana to crack them for lifegain is also interesting. I do have Surgical Extraction and Pithing Needle in my board as well, so I'm not exactly sure how I'd want to board yet.

    I'm not a fan of 2cc creatures in this deck (especially without haste). I realize that Sea Caller and Arcanist can provide card advantage, but they aren't aggressive enough. Even Arcanist flashing back Bolts makes it basically deal 4 damage per combat, which is as much damage as Akoum can deal for half the cost. Sea Caller is even worse, since it's technically a 3cc creature. There are plenty of games where the deck never gets to 3 mana.

    The only 2cc creature I would consider would be Sprite Dragon, but I don't think it is better than the 1cc creatures that we already have. Even with haste, it's still too slow. If Gitaxian Probe was still legal, it might be worth running over Delver of Secrets, but alas.

    Having a large amount of one drop creatures and flooding the board with creatures on turns 1 and 2, is the strongest strategy. You overload the opponent's removal, and produce too many threats for the opponent to deal with at the beginning of the game. By the time an opponent can stabilize, they are typically within burn range.

    I think the extra countermagic dilutes the maindeck plan too much. We are attempting to do 20 damage as fast as possible, so we need all the gas that we can get, where the card disadvantage of Force of Will is a really big deal.

    The lists you guys posted are interesting, but are not really the direction that I think the deck needs to go in to be competitive. If I'm not going full on Sligh, I would think a more standard Delver deck would simply perform better as an aggro/control deck.

    I've tested Thunderous Wrath before, several different times, but it was just too high variance. Obviously it's a blank in the opener without Brainstorm, but even drawing it on turns 1-2 puts you in an akward position, because you really want to be casting creatures vs being sort of forced into casting Thunderous Wrath. It's also akward when you eat a Wasteland or cast a Daze, and don't have the mana to miracle Thunderous Wrath on the following draw step.

    However, with the London Mulligan, it may be worth revisiting Thunderous Wrath now. When the card was good, it was great. 5 damage for 1 mana in a single burn spell is definitely nutty. However, it doesn't play well with LUTS, so I would be cutting those for them if I do try it. Ultimately, I think LUTS is going to be the better card, but who knows.

    I would not run Noxious Revival though. Spending two cards to deal 5 damage is worse than just running more Bolts, especially with how bad Noxious Revival is when you don't have a Thunderous Wrath. I realize the combo costs 1 mana total for the 5 damage, and you're getting extra pumps for Swiftspear, but you are drastically reducing consistency for too little pay off.

    I also think Delver is fine, even with only 26 spells to flip it. Brainstorm can be cast in upkeep to help trigger it, too. It does suck when it doesn't flip for a couple of turns, but there are tons of games where it does flip and the flying is extremely relevant for pushing damage through.

    I do concede that the deck is weak to a turn 1 Chalice, but that's the concession that has to be made in order to have a better game 1 against the rest of the field. Obviously the countermagic would improve the combo matchups, but you give up too much gas against everything else. The reason to play this deck is because of how much stronger it is against the fair decks of the format, although it still has a respectable combo matchup due to its ability to goldfish on turn 3. If you want a more balanced deck, a standard Delver deck is the better way to go. However, matchups that a typical Delver deck may have a hard time dealing with (D&T, Snowko, Miracles, etc), this deck tends to crush them.
    Last edited by Hanni; 09-21-2020 at 07:00 AM.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  20. #400

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    ...

    The lists you guys posted are interesting, but are not really the direction that I think the deck needs to go in to be competitive. If I'm not going full on Sligh, I would think a more standard Delver deck would simply perform better as an aggro/control deck.

    ...
    Yeah, I get the impression that Goblin Guide, Delver of Secrets and Akoum Hellhoud really fit with three different kinds of game plans, so it's going to be tricky to find a deck that successfully runs them all at once, or even one that combines two of the three. To me, it also seems like there aren't that many blue cards that fit really well with the Goblin Guide plan in particular.

    Have you considered 1-2 Ghitu Lavarunners or Wayward Guide-Beasts? Force of Rage is also intriguing for the sligh game plan - trading 2 cards and 0 mana for 6 damage is pretty good rate even if you can't get the prowess trigger. [Nevermind, I misread the card.]

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