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Thread: R/u/x Blue Sligh

  1. #21

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    This may be pushing the mana too far but here is my attempt at playing wild nacatl, tribal flames and steppe lynx
    4 scalding tarn
    4 wooded foothills
    1 misty rain forest
    2 arid mesa
    2 volcanic island
    1 tropical island
    2 taiga
    1 platuea
    1 tundra
    1 mountain
    4 tribal flames
    4 bolt
    4 chain
    2 rift bolt
    2 fireblast
    4 daze
    4 brainstorm
    2 ponder
    4 wild nacatl
    4 delver
    4 goblin guild
    3 steppe lynx
    sb
    4 FOW
    4 spell peirce
    3 sulfuric vortex/batterskull hate
    4 grave hate

    No longer has the option of a fully powered tribal flames but tbh I cast it for 4 like 80% of the time any way (which is still pretty good imo). I am sticking with ponder over magma jet atm due to my counter sideboard. I could definably see cutting the rift bolts and ponders for 4 magma jets. Any way I think Hanni's list is probably better than either of mine but I love wild nacatl so much there is a good chance I stick with mine for the GP.

  2. #22
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    That is true, but i arrived at this point after starting with a straight u/r burn heavy deck, then to counter heavy, then black splash for stalker etc. How could it be more sligh?
    Take a look at my list if you want the answer to that question. I mean, Legacy Sligh for me has evolved over the years, but the shell is still almost exactly the same. I'm talking strictly about Sligh for Legacy, not for old Extended, Standard, etc

    Started out as R/g Goyf Sligh, became R/g/w Naya Sligh, and now R/u/w Blue Sligh. The deck should consist of the following basic shell:

    12-16 creatures (at least 12 of them 1cc)
    16+ burn spells
    18-20 lands

    My older Sligh lists had upwards of 26 burn spells. Now with blue and cantrips, that number is able to drop down a bit. My list is currently running 19 burn spells if you don't count Goblin Guide or Grim Lavamancer as burn spells (although they often function as a burn spell).

    Also, I've trended away from using 2cc creatures completely, because they come down on turn 2 at the earliest, and cannot even swing until turn 3, which is way too slow for Sligh. Unless some really good hasty 2cc creature gets printed in the future (and I mean he has to be really good), there is really no reason to run 2cc creatures anymore. There are plenty of fantastic 1cc creatures available to Sligh nowadays that there's really no good reason to run any 2cc ones.

    You have to remember the deck is all about efficiency, damage to cost ratio, and maximizing damage output for dealing 20 damage as fast as possible. Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, and Vendilion Clique don't do that.

    ---

    Snapcaster Mage is basically a 3 mana Lightning Bolt that leaves a 2/1 body. A vanilla 2/1 body is mostly irreleveant coming down on turn 3, even if you Flash it in on the end of the opponent's turn and it is capable of doing 2 damage next turn, it's still bad in this deck. At 3 mana, I'd rather play Browbeat, Sulfuric Vortex, or even Ball Lightning. Don't get me wrong though, I wouldn't run any of those either.

    Confidant is junk. You waste your entire turn 2 casting a 2/1 creature, who may or may not draw you a few extra cards to compensate for the incredible tempo that you've lost. And if it eats a Bolt or Swords? Ouch.

    Clique costs 3 mana and isn't even guaranteed to deal any damage. 1UU at that. Even if it is capable of swinging once and doing 3 damage, I'd rather just play Lava Spike and do 3 damage for 1 mana. By the time Clique comes down, the opponent should be close to dead already anyway.

    You also run a total of 7 burn spells.

    Now, I'm not saying that you're deck isn't good. It could be fantastic (I haven't played with it to know). What I am saying is, the deck is clearly not Sligh. Please read the opening post, where I specifically said that pretty much all of the cards you're running, besides a few, do not belong in this deck. That deck belongs in the U/R Delver thread.

    ---

    Any way I think Hanni's list is probably better than either of mine but I love wild nacatl so much there is a good chance I stick with mine for the GP.
    You should at least playtest with my list for a little bit, and compare the results with your own. You might find that your list suits you better in playtesting, but you may also find the opposite to be true.

    Hanni I noticed you play no grave hate in the board. Do you think you already have good matchusp vs reanimator and dredge or are you hoping to dodge them?
    Against Dredge, I race them. I have the ability to blow up Bridge from Below at nearly any point in the game if I need to. I can goldfish turn 3, which is around the average goldfish for Dredge, so that's what I've been doing. The deck could certainly fit some graveyard hate in to the tilt the matchup even further though.

    Against Reanimator, I already have Spell Pierce. Although, Grafdigger's Cage would be a hell of alot better than Spell Pierce in this matchup, but still. They have a few targets that they can reanimate that can be a pain in the ass for us, but this deck can often race Reanimator.

    Honestly, I'm questioning the Submerge's in my sideboard, so those may end up becoming Grafdigger's Cage. I haven't really needed Submerge yet in testing, even against decks with Forests and aggro.

    Decks like this rely quite a bit on speed. Cursed Scroll is pretty damn slow, I wouldn't list it on the playable cards list because someone asked you to. Lavamancer does the job a -lot- better.
    There is still value in Cursed Scroll, though. Maybe as a 1-of, maybe in the sideboard, but it is alot harder to deal with than creatures. I'm thinking against some sort of black deck with a bunch of discard and creature kill... although The Rack is probably a better option. At any rate, I do not plan on using Cursed Scroll, but I will leave it on the list of playable options.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  3. #23

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post

    ---


    Honestly, I'm questioning the Submerge's in my sideboard, so those may end up becoming Grafdigger's Cage. I haven't really needed Submerge yet in testing, even against decks with Forests and aggro.
    I think despite its dis-synergy with daze and and not being free path is a better option than submerge. I mainly think this because it doubles as reanimator hate. But I think I agree that it is not needed. creating a ground stall is not really bad for you since that gives you a chance to draw into burn.
    Also maybe I am missing something but in all my testing of blue zoo i have never been excited by Red Elemental blast as a sideboard option in this type of deck.

  4. #24
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I think despite its dis-synergy with daze and and not being free path is a better option than submerge. I mainly think this because it doubles as reanimator hate. But I think I agree that it is not needed. creating a ground stall is not really bad for you since that gives you a chance to draw into burn.
    Also maybe I am missing something but in all my testing of blue zoo i have never been excited by Red Elemental blast as a sideboard option in this type of deck.
    You know, you are probably right. I can't really think of too many situations against opposing blue decks where I would rather have Red Elemental Blast as opposed to just having more Burn. The only situation I can think of is against Counterbalance.

    After I playtest more, I may end up cutting Submerge and Red Elemental Blast for graveyard hate. I'm not sure whether Surgical Extraction or Grafdigger's Cage would be better though. Grafdigger's is more thorough, but Surgical being free is alot more relevant I think.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  5. #25

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    tormod's crypt is also free.

  6. #26
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Actually, Tormod's Crypt does seem to be the best option. I mean, the only two matchups where I'd ever want graveyard hate for would be Reanimator and Dredge. Any other graveyard dependant decks, like Loam decks and such, I really just don't care about their graveyard.

    Against both of these matchups, Tormod's Crypt would work better. Cage seems more powerful, but being free is alot more relevant for this deck. Crypt hitting the entire yard also seems alot better against both decks than Surgical Extraction, since Reanimator could Careful Study two different targets in the yard, and wiping Dredge's entire yard once is pretty much gg for this deck.

    Now I suppose the question is, how many should I run? I definitely think 4 is too many. I mean, I've been doing pretty well against both of these matchups with no graveyard hate. 2 seems too few to be reliable, but I don't know. I guess I'll try 3 out.

    Again, both Submerge and Red Elemental Blast seem unecessary. If I cut those 4 slots for 3 graveyard hate, I free up one slot.

    I also haven't been finding myself bringing in Price of Progress much lately. Most of the matchups I've been playing against, people have been fetching basics heavily. I'm guessing they think I'm running Price even when I'm not, since most U/R Delver lists run them. Either way, the deck doesn't even really need Price of Progress against most decks anyway. I think I'm going to cut these down to 2 to free up another slot.

    With the extra room, I'm going to put in 2 Force of Will. That should be more than enough to give me favorable combo matchups, considering this deck can goldfish turn 3.

    My new sideboard:

    // Sideboard (15)
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 [AL] Force of Will
    SB: 2 [EX] Price of Progress
    SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
    SB: 2 [TE] Disenchant
    SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

    EDIT: While I do like the fact that I can now transform into somewhat of an aggro/control deck postboard with Pierce and Force, I'm not sure if Force is the card I want. The worst matchup I've ran into so far with this deck has been the Smallpox decks I've played against. Total resource denial is a straight up pain in the ass for this deck. Discard, creature kill, and land destruction combined gas this deck out bad. Force seems lackluster here, since it Hymn's myself. Maybe Divert or Spell Snare would be better? Anyway, I'm still going to keep the Forces in there for now, but I'm considering that my flex spot, which is likely going to change after more playtesting.

    EDIT 2: I also wanted to say, that this deck is so rediculously good. I've always enjoyed playing Sligh. It's been one of my favorite decks ever since I started advocating for Naya Sligh while people in the Goyf Sligh thread were arguing with me that splashing white was wrong and I should go play Zoo. With Delver and Brainstorm, R/u/w is just so much stronger than Naya Sligh was. I truly believe this deck should be DTB. It's just ruthlessly consistent at killing the opponent and ends games so fast, that you would have enough time to take a shit in between rounds if you ate some bad food the night before, and still Top 8 on a messed up stomach. My list feels so streamlined it isn't funny, and the maindeck feels absolutely perfect. There's not a single thing I'd change in the maindeck.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  7. #27
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I'm not sure if you even considered it, but I think Ravenous Trap is a solid grave hate option. It rarely gets activated by Reanimator, but dredge is a cinch to get it online for free. It another useful purpose against anything using Past In Flames right now, too (some TES decks, an occasional ANT deck.) Storm hits 3 cards pretty easy on their combo turn, and if they even think about using PiF Ravenous Trap basically reads 'GG'. I use it alongside a singleton Surgical Extraction and Nihil Spellbomb (so I use 3 grave hates in my sideboard.) I am using Tombstalker and a healthy amount of black in a U/b Delver/Faeries build, so that's why I turned to Nihil Spellbomb instead of TCrypt. I still have my graveyard to feed the 3 Stalkers and it cantrips for me.
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  8. #28

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post





    With the extra room, I'm going to put in 2 Force of Will. That should be more than enough to give me favorable combo matchups, considering this deck can goldfish turn 3.

    My new sideboard:

    // Sideboard (15)
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 [AL] Force of Will
    SB: 2 [EX] Price of Progress
    SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
    SB: 2 [TE] Disenchant
    SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

    EDIT: While I do like the fact that I can now transform into somewhat of an aggro/control deck postboard with Pierce and Force, I'm not sure if Force is the card I want. The worst matchup I've ran into so far with this deck has been the Smallpox decks I've played against. Total resource denial is a straight up pain in the ass for this deck. Discard, creature kill, and land destruction combined gas this deck out bad. Force seems lackluster here, since it Hymn's myself. Maybe Divert or Spell Snare would be better? Anyway, I'm still going to keep the Forces in there for now, but I'm considering that my flex spot, which is likely going to change after more playtesting.
    I side my counters in vs only combo decks and a few others (i.e enchantress and chalice decks probebly). I would also side it in if I saw some serious burn hate from their side game 2. All the counters means post board you are a deck with a with a turn 4 goldfish and 10-12 counters (since the counters come in for burn slows you down a little). That is a alot for most combo decks to handle. The pox match up is terrible and I really doubt that you can really do much to change it with 2-3 cards so I would not bother.

    EDIT This is unrelated to my original post. I will be testing Hanni's list and mine in preparation for the GP And I though I would list out in theory the pros and cons of each
    Mine
    Pros
    - I get the play 15 extremely aggressive 1 drops vs 12
    - Tribal flames is pretty powerful when it works
    - Sb artifact and enchantment hate is better
    Cons
    - I am significantly more venerable to wasteland not so much in casting my spells but in that wild nacatl and tribal flmaes depend on land staying in play
    - I have to play 19 lands.
    - I usually have to fetch a land that is not a mountain in my opening two lands often making ending the game in a flurry of burn harder.

  9. #29

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I truly believe this deck should be DTB. It's just ruthlessly consistent at killing the opponent and ends games so fast, that you would have enough time to take a shit in between rounds if you ate some bad food the night before, and still Top 8 on a messed up stomach.


    roflmao!!!!!

    thanks for that hanni!

    it looks like blast to play and i will try it out.

  10. #30
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Pros
    - I get the play 15 extremely aggressive 1 drops vs 12
    - Tribal flames is pretty powerful when it works
    - Sb artifact and enchantment hate is better
    Cons
    - I am significantly more venerable to wasteland not so much in casting my spells but in that wild nacatl and tribal flmaes depend on land staying in play
    - I have to play 19 lands.
    - I usually have to fetch a land that is not a mountain in my opening two lands often making ending the game in a flurry of burn harder.
    I'm running 15 1 drops too...

    I'm running a 2/2 split of Spree and Disenchant, so I'm not sure what you meant there either.

    roflmao!!!!!

    thanks for that hanni!
    Thanks, I'll be here all week.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  11. #31

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I'm running 15 1 drops too...

    I'm running a 2/2 split of Spree and Disenchant, so I'm not sure what you meant there either.



    Thanks, I'll be here all week.
    I was referring to the 2nd list with steppe lynx. I was saying they are all aggressive. Grim lavamance is good but not aggressive out of the gate. Tbh it is not clear where that is an advantage or not.

    I would consider ancient grudge and krosan grip to be better for what you need them for. I may be miscalculating this though as krosan grip may be too expensive to use. And I don't have either of those cards in my sb in the list above but I would prob change sulfuric vortex to some combo of the two.

  12. #32
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    was referring to the 2nd list with steppe lynx. I was saying they are all aggressive. Grim lavamance is good but not aggressive out of the gate. Tbh it is not clear where that is an advantage or not.

    I would consider ancient grudge and krosan grip to be better for what you need them for. I may be miscalculating this though as krosan grip may be too expensive to use. And I don't have either of those cards in my sb in the list above but I would prob change sulfuric vortex to some combo of the two.
    Ah okay, I see what you mean now.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  13. #33

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    On another note it looks like RUG is moving away from stifle and towards spell pierce. That is prob better for my build not sure about the 3 color one. Also I am not sure if there countertop package that they have been playing is good or bad for us. On the one hand once it gets going we can't resolve much, on the other they may end up durdling around for too long to set it up while there face is being smashed in.

  14. #34
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    RUG Tempo is an easy matchup.

    Counterbalance is not good for us, but our early creature rush can sometimes be too much for them to handle if they are spending their early mana casting Top and Balance and not answering our creatures. Rift Bolt and Fireblast can dodge Counterbalance, and Goblin Guide gives us the heads up as to what their top card is (in corner cases). If Counterbalance starts making a ressurgence, the sideboard will need adjusted accordingly.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  15. #35
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    If I were to take your list Hanni, I would straight cut the 4x Magma Jet. It never does anything sensational in my opinion. I've found Searing Blaze to be much more akin to what we're looking for against Stoneforge Mystic, which is to kill it AND do something for 2 mana. 6 damage is alot more than 2, and can make a big difference in such a creature infested metagame. I added another land to you list, a Plateau at first glace. I wanted 19 lands with Lynx and landfall on 7 cards, and there's only 1 non-red land. If you were looking to beat Maverick, I'd say this deck is very well positioned.


    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Arid Mesa
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Flooded Strand
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Plateau
    1 Tundra
    1 Mountain

    4 Goblin Guide
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Steppe Lynx

    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Searing Blaze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Rift Bolt
    3 Fireblast


    It's tempting to cut Brainstorm for Lava Spike or something, but it's really not that good. Brainstorm and Daze really compliment the Lynx well, and he's truly the 1 mana Tarmogoyf of Legacy right now. Since everyone and their brother is playing SFM + Creatures and Stuff.dec atm, I think Searing Blaze could really be the right choice. I guess Magma Jet is better against Combo? I guess it's arguably better against Control? I'm mostly looking for feedback on that. Great decklists and concept, well done.

  16. #36

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    i know this may be a crazy question but is the white splash needed just for the lynx?
    you could drop lynx for plated geopede since its on color and has landfall and that would make a straight 2 color deck and also strengthen the mana base.

    thats an untested suggestion by the way.

  17. #37

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    magma jet makes delver more reliable. It is basically an alternate to ponder.
    @ joey the white splash is needed because there are not enough good one drops in B/U. You would need to play something like phantasmal bear to make it work. Geopede is too slow for what the deck is trying to do.

  18. #38
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    If I were to take your list Hanni, I would straight cut the 4x Magma Jet. It never does anything sensational in my opinion. I've found Searing Blaze to be much more akin to what we're looking for against Stoneforge Mystic, which is to kill it AND do something for 2 mana. 6 damage is alot more than 2, and can make a big difference in such a creature infested metagame. I added another land to you list, a Plateau at first glace. I wanted 19 lands with Lynx and landfall on 7 cards, and there's only 1 non-red land. If you were looking to beat Maverick, I'd say this deck is very well positioned.
    It's tempting to cut Brainstorm for Lava Spike or something, but it's really not that good. Brainstorm and Daze really compliment the Lynx well, and he's truly the 1 mana Tarmogoyf of Legacy right now. Since everyone and their brother is playing SFM + Creatures and Stuff.dec atm, I think Searing Blaze could really be the right choice. I guess Magma Jet is better against Combo? I guess it's arguably better against Control? I'm mostly looking for feedback on that. Great decklists and concept, well done.
    Searing Blaze is a really good card against opposing aggro decks, and I'm actually considering fitting 2 in my sideboard in place of what is right now Force of Will.

    I think you underestimate Magma Jet, or misassigned its role. Magma Jet is fantastic. It's not there just to hit SFM's. The fact that there are so many creatures right now that it deals with is really good though. The primary reason I run Magma Jet is that it is a burn spell attached to a Scry 2. It helps me maintain my burn density (and again, 2 targetable damage is very relevant right now) while giving me additional library manipulation. Magma Jet is not only good for growing Delver, it's also good for fueling Steppe Lynx, and it's also good for setting up the win so that I draw more burn. The tempo lost from paying 2 mana to do only 2 damage is offset by potentially saving me 2 draw steps worth of worthless cards.

    If I were to cut Magma Jet (which I wouldn't), I'd replace them with at least a couple Ponder. Magma Jet has been one of my favorite cards to see, and has been fantastic for me in nearly every single game, against all sorts of different matchups. I personally won't be cutting them, but to each their own.

    Brainstorm is so rediculously good in this deck, do not cut those. For any reason.

    Also, I think going up to 19 lands is a bad idea. The extra land for Steppe Lynx is not needed with Brainstorm and Magma Jet/Ponder, and the extra land is going to hurt you more than it helps. This deck needs to draw gas, and mana floods will cause game losses moreso than manascrew. Even with 18 lands, I've still had games where I flood. The entire deck is filled with nothing but 1cc spells, with Magma Jet and Fireblast being the only two spells that require more than 1 land in play. In fact, I'd argue that the builds with Ponder instead of Magma Jet could actually get away with running 17 lands.

    i know this may be a crazy question but is the white splash needed just for the lynx?
    you could drop lynx for plated geopede since its on color and has landfall and that would make a straight 2 color deck and also strengthen the mana base.
    The splash doesn't do much whatsoever to reduce mana consistency, even against Wastelands. The deck needs white only for Lynx, so if the deck doesn't have a turn 1 or two Lynx, it never needs white mana (preboard).

    Aside from that, for those wanting to stay straight R/u for whatever reason, whether that be budget concerns or a metagame that is filled with nonbasic hate, Plated Geopede is not a replacement. The earliest Geopede can attack is turn 3, and this deck does not support cracking fetchlands consistently past turn 3. As was mentioned, Phantasmal Bear would be the Lynx replacement for the straight R/u builds.

    Either way, I've been extremely satisfied with Lynx in the 100 or so games I've logged with this deck on MWS in the past week or so. He rips peoples faces off.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  19. #39
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    EDIT: While I do like the fact that I can now transform into somewhat of an aggro/control deck postboard with Pierce and Force, I'm not sure if Force is the card I want. The worst matchup I've ran into so far with this deck has been the Smallpox decks I've played against. Total resource denial is a straight up pain in the ass for this deck. Discard, creature kill, and land destruction combined gas this deck out bad. Force seems lackluster here, since it Hymn's myself. Maybe Divert or Spell Snare would be better? Anyway, I'm still going to keep the Forces in there for now, but I'm considering that my flex spot, which is likely going to change after more playtesting.
    Hello Hanni, great deck idea as always. Regarding the above question/doubt: wouldn't flusterstorm be the card you are looking for to stop discard/pox effects during the early turns?

  20. #40
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Flusterstorm doesn't like a bad idea actually. I have to hold U open, and it's not as good as Force of Will against combo decks like Reanimator and Show and Tell, but it's basically 2 more Spell Pierce's that are actually better than Spell Pierce against instants and sorceries specifically. I'll cut the Forces for those and see how they turn out. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Sligh
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    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

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