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Thread: R/u/x Blue Sligh

  1. #81

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Blue Sligh is a more appropriate thread title. Splashing green for Wild Nacatl is still a valid approach, and who knows what may get printed in future sets.

    EDIT: In fact, cutting Grim Lavamancer for Wild Nacatl would make the deck alot more aggressive, at the cost of manabase consistency. For me personally, I'd rather have the manabase consistency, but the 4c approach is still valid.
    I have been following the thread for a few days now and am thinking about building the deck. I am just not sure whether or not a 4c-version with Wild Nacatl is better than the 3c-version with Grim Lavamancer.

    Hanni, have you tested any version with Wild Nacatl? I am still figuring out the manabase. For Nacatls you want at least 2 Plateaus in my opinion and similar to your version there should be 1 Tropical and 1 Taiga (analog to 1 Tundra and 1 Plateau for Lynx). Therefore I am currently toying with:

    12 Fetchies

    1 Tropical Island
    1 Taiga
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Plateau

    I couldn't get the manabase right color-wise without cutting the basic Mountain. The Tundra was cut because I added an additional Plateau. Eight of the twelve Fetchies should be 4 Wooded Foothills and 4 Scalding Tarn because of Tropical Island.

    What do you think about this possible manabase for a build with Wild Nacatl?

    Thanks for all the content in this thread!

    Irenicus

  2. #82
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    If you're going 4c, you pretty much have to cut the basic Mountain. You need to get all 4 colors, and basics are going to hurt you more than help you.

    I have not tried the 4c Nacatl version of this deck. I tried the 4c version in Blue Zoo, so I do have some experience with it.

    The manabase you listed looks fine to me.

    For the fetches, you'd probably want 4 Foothills, 4 Tarn, 2 Mesa, 2 Strand, I think.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  3. #83
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Irenicus, here's my stab at a 4c list:

    R/u/w/g 4c Blue Sligh

    // Lands (18)
    3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
    3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
    3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    3 [ON] Windswept Heath
    1 [R] Volcanic Island
    1 [R] Plateau
    1 [R] Taiga
    1 [R] Tundra
    1 [R] Tropical Island
    1 [R] Savannah

    // Creatures (16)
    4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
    4 [ISD] Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
    4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
    4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl

    // Spells (26)
    4 [IA] Brainstorm
    3 [AP] Fire/Ice
    4 [FD] Magma Jet
    4 [R] Lightning Bolt
    4 [LG] Chain Lightning
    4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
    3 [VI] Fireblast

    // Sideboard (15)
    SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
    SB: 2 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
    SB: 2 [GP] Shattering Spree
    SB: 2 [TE] Disenchant
    SB: 2 [NE] Submerge
    SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

    This list is untested. I cut the Daze for Fire/Ice. Daze is great, but I think the deck will get more mileage out of Fire/Ice in this list. The deck really wants Fire/Ice to push as much damage through as possible, since 12 of my 16 creatures do groundbound damage. Daze is my only maindeck flexspot spell; the burn count cannot be lowered past the what it already is, and while Daze can increase my overall damage output, it's not as valuable as burn (except maybe vs Smallpox and combo).

    This deck replaces the loss of Daze with the fact that all 16 of its creatures swing for chunks early game, and Fire/Ice increases the potential burn density even more.

    I'm going to playtest this list when I get some time, and then I'll post my results and observations. If nothing else, the list looks alot more aggressive.

    Oh, and I'm not 100% sold on my manabase, but this is where I'm going to start.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  4. #84

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Hanni, I think you and I enjoy similar styles of decks XD.

    I went to FNM last night, and over and over...I kept saying, "You know what I really want? Steppe Lynx."

    Mishra's Factory stopped my goblin guide, my Delver's got killed, Snapcaster Mage sometimes just costs too much mana..

    Had I had steppe lynx I could be swinging through and really be able to put pressure on him, but I couldn't..

    There are just these moments where Goblin Guide is so terrible it hurts--namely, Mishra's Factory. Activate, block tap.. Delver's work, lavamancer's work.. I'm almost thinking about cutting the guides for Lynx's but, most likely I'll be cutting snapcasters and a ponder..

    I'll probably be throwing down and grabbing what I need for this deck shortly.

  5. #85
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Does Magma Jet in response to Factory tapping for +1/+1 kill the Factory? I've been away from Magic for a while, I'm not quite sure how that works anymore. If so, 4 Bolt + 4 Jet should be plenty to deal with Factory.

    Lynx would definitely solve your Factory problem, though.

    I'm not a fan of Snapcaster in aggressive decks whatsoever. I think Snapcaster belongs in control decks. But, tournament results speak for themselves, which seem to contradict my opinion.

    Also, I would never cut Goblin Guide. He may have times where he's bad, but you'll find times where Lynx is bad too, and you'll have games where Delver just won't flip for several turns. It happens. Doesn't mean you shouldn't run them. They are the most aggressive 1 drops in the game, and that's exactly what you want in Sligh.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  6. #86

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Does Magma Jet in response to Factory tapping for +1/+1 kill the Factory? I've been away from Magic for a while, I'm not quite sure how that works anymore. If so, 4 Bolt + 4 Jet should be plenty to deal with Factory.

    Lynx would definitely solve your Factory problem, though.

    I'm not a fan of Snapcaster in aggressive decks whatsoever. I think Snapcaster belongs in control decks. But, tournament results speak for themselves, which seem to contradict my opinion.

    Also, I would never cut Goblin Guide. He may have times where he's bad, but you'll find times where Lynx is bad too, and you'll have games where Delver just won't flip for several turns. It happens. Doesn't mean you shouldn't run them. They are the most aggressive 1 drops in the game, and that's exactly what you want in Sligh.
    Jet would kill the factory, for sure. Replacing my Rift Bolt's for magma jets would actually be wonderful, I'm even leaning towards dropping Chain Lightning for Lightning Helix.

    Chain Lightning is nice sometimes when going the distance, but..not..having instant speed removal is so frustrating.

    And yeah, Goblin Guide's get there the most often, having more instant speed removal would solve the factory problem better. I think running white is going to be a big plus. Plus, once I get that going, I can start fiddling with fun things like adding in stifles and wastelands and see what happens ^_^;;.

  7. #87
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    I don't know if cutting Rift Bolt's is the right call either, though. If Chalice and Counterbalance start making a push back into the format, Rift Bolt and Fireblast are going to be your bread and butter.

    At any rate, I don't know what your list looks like, so it's hard to make suggestions one way or the other. What I do know is that I'm happy running the best 1cc burn spells in the game (Bolt/Chain/Rift), along with the rest of my package.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  8. #88

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I don't know if cutting Rift Bolt's is the right call either, though. If Chalice and Counterbalance start making a push back into the format, Rift Bolt and Fireblast are going to be your bread and butter.

    At any rate, I don't know what your list looks like, so it's hard to make suggestions one way or the other. What I do know is that I'm happy running the best 1cc burn spells in the game (Bolt/Chain/Rift), along with the rest of my package.
    Oh I see, I didn't notice just how much burn you actually ran in your list haha.

    I'll have to take this into consideration. I like your thoughts on Spell Pierce / Snare / Stifle.

  9. #89
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Yea, the burn density makes a BIG difference. That's the primary reason I could never get Blue Zoo to work the way I wanted it to... I ran too much countermagic, and not enough burn. The burn density is pretty much what seperates Sligh from Zoo from U/R Delver from *insert aggro/control deck here*

    The ability to just not care about your creatures because you know you can win without them makes alot of matchups much, much better. The Maverick matchup and board control matchups are perfect examples.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  10. #90

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    what about tribal flames in the 4cc version???

  11. #91
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    what about tribal flames in the 4cc version???
    Well, 1R for 4 damage is good. I just question how consistently the deck can hit 4 colors of mana and keep 4 colors of mana.

    To be honest, I've played a few games with the 4c version, and I'm not really liking it. I suppose if I upped the land count to 20, it would work better, but then I expose myself to possible land flooding. My problem with going 4c is the consistency. There is no doubt that, when it draws correctly, it's much more aggressive than the 3c version. The problems occur when it doesn't draw correctly, i.e the deck doesn't get the right color of mana it needs when it needs it. With the 3c version, that barely ever happens.

    Wasteland is a nightmare for the 4c list. Shrinking Nacatl's to 1/1 makes them worse than Grim Lavamancers, and keeping me off of casting crucial spells like Brainstorm is bad times. The 3c list shrugs off Wastelands, but the 4c list gets destroyed by them, and Wasteland is everywhere.

    Casting Fireblast is alot less consistent with the 4c version too, although that may be due to my manabase configuration.

    At any rate, I don't mean to discredit the 4c version, because it's potential power level is huge. However, I'm the type of player that prefers consistency, and so I'll be sticking to R/u/w.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  12. #92

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Well, 1R for 4 damage is good. I just question how consistently the deck can hit 4 colors of mana and keep 4 colors of mana.

    To be honest, I've played a few games with the 4c version, and I'm not really liking it. I suppose if I upped the land count to 20, it would work better, but then I expose myself to possible land flooding. My problem with going 4c is the consistency. There is no doubt that, when it draws correctly, it's much more aggressive than the 3c version. The problems occur when it doesn't draw correctly, i.e the deck doesn't get the right color of mana it needs when it needs it. With the 3c version, that barely ever happens.

    Wasteland is a nightmare for the 4c list. Shrinking Nacatl's to 1/1 makes them worse than Grim Lavamancers, and keeping me off of casting crucial spells like Brainstorm is bad times. The 3c list shrugs off Wastelands, but the 4c list gets destroyed by them, and Wasteland is everywhere.

    Casting Fireblast is alot less consistent with the 4c version too, although that may be due to my manabase configuration.

    At any rate, I don't mean to discredit the 4c version, because it's potential power level is huge. However, I'm the type of player that prefers consistency, and so I'll be sticking to R/u/w.
    Tribal flames is def consistent enough to make the cut in 4 color When you can cast it it rarely hits for less than 3 and 4 is pretty common. I think the fact it doubles as removal vs goyfs and knights in the early game is nice too.
    Here is the mana base I have been working with
    19 lands
    4 tarn
    4 foothills
    2 arid mesa
    1 misty
    2 volcanic
    2 taiga
    1 plateau
    1 tundra
    1 trop
    1 badlands

    A basic mountain is worth considering in sb. It can be brought in RUG and maverick and such. Also the 4 color version is somewhat harder to play as you have to plan your lands well (i.e fetchign correctly, baiting watlenads with your worst land ect).

    I would probably not play firebalst in the 4 color versions. Def not more than a 2 of. It works a little better in mine due to have 6 actually mountains.
    I still like daze as at least a 3 of.
    Here is what I will be testing some more
    manabase from above
    4 bolt
    4 chain
    4 tribal flames
    3 rift bolt
    2 fire//ice
    2 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    3 daze
    4 wild nacatl
    4 delver
    4 goblin guild
    3 steppe lynx
    Sb
    4 spell peirce
    4 FOW
    2 krosan grip
    1 ancient grudge
    4 tormods crypt

    Magma jet can replace ponder if that is your preference.
    Also as Hanni said his 3 color version is probably better due to being more consistent.

  13. #93
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    A while ago there was a speed zoo/GRW sligh thread, that had the same concept. They used Reckless Charge, because it was insane with Lynx and Nacatl. Does it have a shot here?

    While digging for that I remembered that Reckless Abandon exist. It must be nice saccing your near-dead Lynx/Guide, or the Delver that did lots of dmg, for 4 points of dmg. Do you think the 1 extra point of dmg is good enough to warrant it some slots over some other burn, or it is too situational?

    Awesome deck by the way.
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  14. #94
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Reckless Charge and Reckless Abandon are both too situational.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  15. #95

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    i dont about reckless charge , but reckless abandon seems pretty nice for the deck. you have enough creatures to justify a 2 or 3 of main deck , you say you only use your creatures for the first 2 or 3 turns , why then not fireblast them? for R , it surely is a bad top deck if you dont have creatures but.. i dont know maybe it can work

  16. #96
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Not caring about what happens to my creatures past turn 4 doesn't mean that I want to sac them. If I haven't won by turn 4 but I still have a Delver in play, I'm going to keep swinging with it. Even an 0/1 Steppe Lynx can instantly become a 4/5 from a topdecked fetchland. Unless the Reckless Abandon is doing the final 4 damage ftw, I'm not going to want to sac my guys. It's also a dead card in hand when I don't have a creature on the board. Fireblast is great because it's free, and it quite often increases the goldfish by an entire turn (ex: Bolt, Bolt, Blast is 10 damage). Reckless Abandon is only 1 more point of damage over a Lightning Bolt, costs a creature, and is situational.

    I've tried both Reckless Charge and Reckless Abandon in Naya Sligh before, and they were bad. I see no reason why that would change now.

    However, I'm not trying to be a Nazi. If people want to slide a few of those cards in their deck, go for it. Or any of the other viable cards suggested, for that matter.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  17. #97
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Just noticed that Kiln Fiend could be happy here. Its consistently going to be a 4/2 or a 7/2. It could be this deck's version of Piledriver.

    Games where you have Delver turn 1 (active turn 2), or Steppe Lynx turn 1 you'll be dealing something like 13 - 15 damage by turn 3 just with your creatures. That doesn't seem overly slow if you have fireblast to finish them off (or 3 bolt/lightning on turn 3). Its certainly a bad topdeck though if the game winds up dragging out.
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  18. #98
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    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Well, Kiln Fiend is better than Tarmogoyf for this deck, so I'll include it in the list of playables.

    For me personally, my stance is to not run 2cc creatures. Swinging on turn 3 is too slow. Now, if they ever print a 2cc creature that is a 4/1 with Haste, I'd run it.
    Sligh
    Echo Stompy
    /r Miracle Intuition
    Yorion's Intuition
    5c Hollow Vine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  19. #99

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    Now, if they ever print a 2cc creature that is a 4/1 with Haste, I'd run it.
    LOL! i think everyone would!

    ive been goldfishing the deck on cockatrice.seems that the deck has an avg of turn 5 kill.

    the turn 3 kill is not as frequent as previously posted.now that doesnt make it a bad deck. its not. quite fun actually!

    i could be keeping bad opening hands as well.perhaps im not mulling aggressive enuff.
    a 1 land opening hand is a bit scary.1 wasteland and we could be stuck a few turns.

    given all that , a turn 5 kill is still good.

    i also thought about kiln fiend. i will give it a try.
    originally posted by hanni speaking of blue sligh:

    I truly believe this deck should be DTB. It's just ruthlessly consistent at killing the opponent and ends games so fast, that you would have enough time to take a shit in between rounds if you ate some bad food the night before, and still Top 8 on a messed up stomach.

  20. #100

    Re: R/u/x Blue Sligh

    My experince with both Hanni's 3 color build and my 4 color build is that they goldfish on turn 4 about 90% of the time. I large portion of those times they have done 15 damage or more by turn 3. About %5 of the time they kill on turn 3 and another 5% its turn 5 or 6.

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