[EDH] Oona, Queen of the Fae

[jimirynk]

From the look of it, I'd guess your primary win condition is Future Sight combo. I've long debated whether I should make my Oona, Queen of the Fae list into Future Sight combo since the pieces are all useful on their own. How has Future Sight combo been working for you? Do you win more games with it or with Basalt Monolith/Power Artifact?

I win every single game with Oona and infi mana, future sight is actually one of the harder combos in the deck to set up bc its 3 cards. Rings/basalt or power art/manolith happens a lot more often doubling cube has to be one of the best cards in the deck you just make SO much mana with it and rings or it and key plus key/rings/cube is infinite mana. Most games you just ramp dump you hand play a draw spell assemble the first combo that you draw play oona win.

[Kuma]

Return to Ravnica changes:

- Drift of Phantasms

+ Cyclonic Rift

I'm trying to move away from running transmute cards as they're mana intensive and let your opponent know exactly what you're up to.

Updated first post.

[Jivanmukta]

Would running Magosi, the Waterveil be too ineffectual of a combo? It goes infinite with Candelabra and Rings for what seems to be minimal investment of deck space.

[Kuma]

Would running Magosi, the Waterveil be too ineffectual of a combo? It goes infinite with Candelabra and Rings for what seems to be minimal investment of deck space.

That's a very interesting idea. I'll see about working it in. Seems like it'll be pretty good given that it's only taking up half of a deck slot.

[Jivanmukta]

That's a very interesting idea. I'll see about working it in. Seems like it'll be pretty good given that it's only taking up half of a deck slot.

I've been playing Oona for a while now and have been in discussion with several other competitive Oona players on mtgSalv. My list runs a LOT of small draw cantrips and spells (probably far too many honestly) so it's always nice to see other decks.

I had never thought of running Mycosynth Lattice before I saw this list.

I'm debating removing the Helm/Leyline combo from my deck as it only kills 1 person at a time. I noticed you don't run it either anymore, do you ever miss it or has it's removal been for the best?

[Kuma]

I've been playing Oona for a while now and have been in discussion with several other competitive Oona players on mtgSalv. My list runs a LOT of small draw cantrips and spells (probably far too many honestly) so it's always nice to see other decks.

I had never thought of running Mycosynth Lattice before I saw this list.

I'm debating removing the Helm/Leyline combo from my deck as it only kills 1 person at a time. I noticed you don't run it either anymore, do you ever miss it or has it's removal been for the best?

Mycosynth Lattice is awesome because it lets you use your infinite colorless mana as colored mana. It's also great with Hurkyl's Recall and to a lesser extent Rebuild.

I haven't missed Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void combo very often. Once in a long time I'll end up with too many combo pieces in the graveyard and wish I still ran it, but in general it's an inefficient way to kill people.

[Jivanmukta]

Have you ever tried Tainted Pact with a nearly singleton mana base? I've found it to be quite possibly the strongest tutor. The mana base isn't much harder to deal with, just run a snow-covered island/swamp in place of a regular. Hell things like Tolaria and Urborg (the legendary ones) could be used in place of another pair of basics. Even if you ended up with 2 land with the same name it shouldn't ever make a difference with fetches. The ONLY drawback I can consider is if you are facing lots of non-basic hosers, but Tainted Pact is just so strong it might be worth it even there.

[Kuma]

Have you ever tried Tainted Pact with a nearly singleton mana base? I've found it to be quite possibly the strongest tutor. The mana base isn't much harder to deal with, just run a snow-covered island/swamp in place of a regular. Hell things like Tolaria and Urborg (the legendary ones) could be used in place of another pair of basics. Even if you ended up with 2 land with the same name it shouldn't ever make a difference with fetches. The ONLY drawback I can consider is if you are facing lots of non-basic hosers, but Tainted Pact is just so strong it might be worth it even there.

I've thought about it in the past, but there were too many anti-non-basic land cards in my group. I don't have that problem anymore, but Tainted Pact can leave you in a bad position if the card you tutored for gets countered/answered, as roughly half your deck will be exiled. I suppose it's better if you go until you hit a better tutor.

I just realized that it also gets around Aven Mindcensor and Stranglehold. I'm definitely going to have to try this.

[Jivanmukta]

I've thought about it in the past, but there were too many anti-non-basic land cards in my group. I don't have that problem anymore, but Tainted Pact can leave you in a bad position if the card you tutored for gets countered/answered, as roughly half your deck will be exiled. I suppose it's better if you go until you hit a better tutor.

I just realized that it also gets around Aven Mindcensor and Stranglehold. I'm definitely going to have to try this.

In my quest for trying to find alternative wins I experimented with Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac so I'm used to the risky tutors. Granted the Maniac/Consult combo was VERY fragile and no longer being run, but after running that Tainted Pact is absolutely flawless in comparison.

I am going to begin testing Tidespout Tyrant. What is your experience with him? I know other people swear by him in the deck but I am VERY wary of depending on a creature.

[Kuma]

I am going to begin testing Tidespout Tyrant. What is your experience with him? I know other people swear by him in the deck but I am VERY wary of depending on a creature.

I found that I almost never wanted to try to win with him, and people would often Bribery him out of my deck. His CMC of eight is pretty bad for Ad Nauseam as well.

[Jivanmukta]

I found that I almost never wanted to try to win with him, and people would often Bribery him out of my deck. His CMC of eight is pretty bad for Ad Nauseam as well.

Do you find the 2 infinite mana combos are enough win conditions? It just feels odd to not have a backup plan.

Curious, how many other blue and/or black decks do you consistently play against? If a bunch have you considered Fellwar Stone. It's potentially another Talisman without the damage.

[Kuma]

Do you find the 2 infinite mana combos are enough win conditions? It just feels odd to not have a backup plan.

I used to run several backup plans, but I didn't find myself winning with them often enough to justify their existence. I either won with the infinite mana plan, or I wasn't going to win. There's still the backup plan of cast Oona, Queen of the Fae and use all the mana this deck can make to churn out 1/1 Faerie Rogues. That works pretty well against creature light decks.

Curious, how many other blue and/or black decks do you consistently play against? If a bunch have you considered Fellwar Stone. It's potentially another Talisman without the damage.

Right now, not very many. I'm the only guy playing black right now, and there isn't another blue player every game. In general, I've found it to be worth the occasional point of damage or two to be able to guarantee myself blue and black mana. This is the most color hungry deck I've ever played with by far.

[Jivanmukta]

Honestly I'm waiting till the Dimir come out in Gatecrash before I make any major changes. If any set "should" have anything for us, it would be that one. There's also potential mox art from either Gatecrash or Dragon's Maze and Oona loves her Moxen.

[Killane]

I've recently built an Oona deck for those times when there are prizes on the line at the LGS and the name of the game is EDH. I honestly love this deck - it feels like playing Vintage Again!

here's a link to my list and discussion:

Oona on MTGS

As you can see, my goal is to kill everyone as quickly as possible, no fuss, no muss.

A few question regarding your list. Please note I have a bit of a brusque style, so don;t take offense - you obviously know what you're doing so I'm asking to enlighten things I don't understand, not being critical.

Why Oboro, Palace in the Clouds? What does it do for you in this list?

You only run 5 counterspells - do you generally find that is enough, especially if you have to Plan B with Bribery? Do you ever play against Clique or other high disruption decks?

Speaking of which, with Emrakul and G-Brand banned, what do you find is generally a heavy enough hitter to make Bribery as a back-up plan good enough?

Can you expand on the role of Spellskite in the deck? I see some obvious uses, but none that would generally lave me feeling it was worth the slot.

No Jace, TMS? If you get into having to play a long controlling game, seems like the best card you can have.

no Thoughtseize, duress, or Mind Twist to hedge against control?

Why run Lattice as well as Array? They are both fairly high CMC for Ad Nauseum, Array is a complete do-nothing outside the engame of winning, and Lattice has only two uses outside of it, what do you gain by running both? Also, there's an analysis of page 2 of my MTGS thread which basically leads to the conclusion that Goblin Cannon is strictly better than Array if you're going to use that slot. Isn't running just one of them better though?

[Kuma]

I've recently built an Oona deck for those times when there are prizes on the line at the LGS and the name of the game is EDH. I honestly love this deck - it feels like playing Vintage Again!

here's a link to my list and discussion:

Oona on MTGS

As you can see, my goal is to kill everyone as quickly as possible, no fuss, no muss.

I checked that out, and you guys have some good discussion going on over there. I might even have to dust off my MTGS account.

A few question regarding your list. Please note I have a bit of a brusque style, so don;t take offense - you obviously know what you're doing so I'm asking to enlighten things I don't understand, not being critical.

No worries, I'm the same way. Hit me with your best shot.

Why Oboro, Palace in the Clouds? What does it do for you in this list?

It lets me make an additional colored mana when I'm infinite providing I didn't play a land yet that turn. It's extremely corner case, but there's little downside to running it. It can also be picked up if someone blows up all lands.

You only run 5 counterspells - do you generally find that is enough, especially if you have to Plan B with Bribery? Do you ever play against Clique or other high disruption decks?

I should probably be running Hinder and Spell Crumple at least. I haven't had time to work on this list in a while and it needs a major overhaul. That Plan B bit with Bribery in the primer is pretty old. I never win like that.

Speaking of which, with Emrakul and G-Brand banned, what do you find is generally a heavy enough hitter to make Bribery as a back-up plan good enough?

It's not. See above. It can get me something nice like Consecrated Sphinx to help me along though.

Can you expand on the role of Spellskite in the deck? I see some obvious uses, but none that would generally lave me feeling it was worth the slot.

Spellskite is a relic from when I played against Arcum Dagsson every game. You redirect Arcum's ability to Spellskite and search for Pithing Needle to shut off Arcum or a combo piece so you can untap and win. At worst, it's like another Phyrexian Revoker against Arcum. It can also protect your combo pieces if someone tries to destroy them. Since I'm not playing against Arcum anymore, It might not be worth it.

No Jace, TMS? If you get into having to play a long controlling game, seems like the best card you can have.

Nope, he dies too quickly in my group. I don't run enough creatures to protect him, so he's pretty much Brainstorm for .

no Thoughtseize, duress, or Mind Twist to hedge against control?

I've tried Thoughtseize, Duress, and Inquisition of Kozilek in other decks and wasn't a fan. I guess they're pretty good the turn you're trying to combo, but that extra colored mana can be a pain. I'll think about it. Mind Twist is a good idea. This deck ramps fast enough to really get someone with it.

Why run Lattice as well as Array?

It's nuts with Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild.

Array is a complete do-nothing outside the engame of winning, and Lattice has only two uses outside of it, what do you gain by running both? Also, there's an analysis of page 2 of my MTGS thread which basically leads to the conclusion that Goblin Cannon is strictly better than Array if you're going to use that slot. Isn't running just one of them better though?

I read in that thread you linked about Goblin Cannon and I agree that it and Increasing Ambition are better. The reason I ran both is to make sure I had one when I made infinite mana. I try to drop all the pieces in one turn, because my group is incredibly wary about Basalt Monolith, etc. from this deck. It's incredibly difficult to have enough colored mana to drop all pieces in one turn and kill with Oona, Queen of the Fae. Gemstone Array, Candelabra of Tawnos, and Mycosynth Lattice help with that.

Your suggestions are excellent, and I'm going to be overhauling my list soon. Thanks!

[Killane]

thanks for all the answers, makes a good deal of sense. I'm going to be changing my list soon- it's tutor-light and draw-heavy right now and needs to be faster and more resilient. Currently considering 16 main deck changes:

Strip Mine ---> Darkwater Catacombs
Academy Ruins ---> Oboro, Palace in the Clouds

Dark Confidant ---> Recurring Insight (+4)
Memory Jar ---> Chain of Vapor (-4)
Fact or Fiction ---> Hyrkyll's Recall (-2)
Lilliana of the Veil---> Mycosynth Lattice (+3)
Scroll Rack--- > Phantasmal Image (0)
Tidespout Tyrant ---> Diabolic Revelation (-3)
Goblin Cannon ----- > Increasing Ambition (+1)

Flusterstorm---> River of Tears (-1)
Snapcaster Mage--> Copy Artifact (0)
Cryptic Command--> Phyrexian Revoker (-2)
Force Spike ---> Mana Leak (+1)

Executioner's Capsule ---- > Cabal Ritual (+1)
Thoughtseize------- > Gilded Lotus (+4)
Black Sun's Zenith (to sideboard replacing Hurkyl's) ----------> Shred Memory (0)

Net (+2) CMC

That said, I'm very reluctant to cut Tidespout Tyrant. Have you considered going back to him at all? He's such a huge bomb and makes infinite colored mana with quite a few cards in the deck.

[Kuma]

Have you considered going back to Tidespout Tyrant at all? He's such a huge bomb and makes infinite colored mana with quite a few cards in the deck.

I've thought about it. He's awesome but he costs a ton of mana and is pretty lousy to play against if someone gets him with Bribery. I rarely won with him when I ran him. He's under consideration, for sure.

I like your proposed changes. I run everything you're adding except Mana Leak and Increasing Ambition. I'll probably be running Increasing Ambition soon though.

[Killane]

If you push it, what's your fundamental turn? We play quite a few 1vs1 matches here and fast aggro is common. It's not too hard to slow them down a bit, but generally I think Goldfishing them is a better strategy. They're well prepared for GY dependent combo, which is one of the reasons I got into this list in the first place - they just become a goldfish. How fast do you think this deck can be pushed to? I know we'll never get to Hermit Druid speed (though, like I said my meta is very anti-graveyard becuase they're used to it, so I think in practice we'll always be faster than druid where I live), but do you think it's possible to build Oona as a consistent turn 4 deck? Right now I feel like it's 5-6 on average, which is slower than I'm comfortable with. Maybe my changes will increase the speed.

[Kuma]

I goldfished ten games with my list and the average turn I killed the table was 4.8. I had six turn fours, two turn fives, a turn six, and a turn eight. I think an average of turn four is pushing it, but it can certainly win on that turn. 4.5 is probably our best case scenario.

[Killane]

I goldfished 30 times last night specifically to test out a few potential changes and to focus on finding the right balance with Necropotence. That card is even harder to use in this deck than a normal combo deck!

I've found generally, in a goldfish situation, drawing to increase your pre-discard hand size to about 15-17 cards (so draw 10 if you already have a full grip) seems to be optimal 0 it allows you to sculpt the best 7 without having to pitch too much gas into exile.

I settled on the following changes for now:

Strip Mine ---> Darkwater Catacombs

Dark Confidant ---> Recurring Insight (+4)
Memory Jar ---> Chain of Vapor (-4)
Fact or Fiction ---> Hyrkyll's Recall (-2)
Lilliana of the Veil---> Mycosynth Lattice (+3)
Scroll Rack--- > Phantasmal Image (0)
Tidespout Tyrant ---> Diabolic Revelation (-3)
Goblin Cannon ----- > Cabal Ritual (+2)

Flusterstorm---> Gilded Lotus (+4)
Snapcaster Mage--> Copy Artifact (0)
Cryptic Command--> Phyrexian Revoker (-2)
Force Spike ---> Mana Leak (+1)

Black Sun's Zenith (to sideboard replacing Hurkyl's) ----------> Shred Memory (0)

What's missing is that I did not cut Executioner's Capsule or Thoughseize, nor did I add the 34th land or Increasing Ambition, nor did I cut Academy Ruins for Oboro.

I ALWAYS feel flooded with this deck - it still feels like I draw too much land, but I'm not willing to cut anymore due to mulligan issues and the fact that theory dictates I'm already much lighter than I feel comfortable. That said, going up to 34 lands would make the issue that much worse.

Capsule is very strong. It's easy to find, kills most things I need to kill, and can be recurred. Academy Ruins helps this plan and is now the only colorless land in the deck - given the filter land, Urborg, etc... I did not find it to be a problem at all during the goldfish session, even when I drew it (3 times) in the opening hand.

I didn't add Increasing Ambition because apparently I don't own one - go figure! That said, I'm not sure I'm going to - it's very good, but I might be acquiring an imperial seal in the near future and/or a grim tutor, and these effects the deck clearly wants.

I drew a God hand once (turn 1 kill with protection):

Mana Crypt
Grim Monolith
Power Artifact
Mox Opal
Island
Mycosynth Lattice
Pact of Negation

Which is believe is the best possible opening hand in the format (I don't think there are any possible t1 kills with double protection in the format at all). Naturally, this means I will never draw it in a tournament.

5 Turn 3 kills, most of which involved Gilded Lotus. Seriously I should never have cut that card - especially with Metamorph copying it it's way too good.

Fully 15 of the remaining 24 games would have ended on turn 4,5 or 6, all with some back-up. I am a bit concerned with the ability of this deck to fight something like a fully optimized, 20+ counterspell Zur build. Backup usually consists of 1-2 counterspells and/or discard effects, and that's it. That said, many of these games included a turn 1 Pithing needle or Phyrexian Revoker, which, shutting off Necropotence, makes them spend time on removing the issue.

The last 9 games ended in what I'd call the late game for this deck, turn 7+. the main issue was finding a tutor, and also I included the assumption that every turn past turn 3 I'd have to interact with the opponent in some way if possible (thus I would not tap out on turn 4 if holding a counterspell or bounce spell, and summed I'd have to use it to stop something they were doing).

Of note, I only used Ad Nauseum 12 times out of the 30 games, so the build is not overly dependent on it. I set a rule that if I could not resolve it by turn 5, I would not use it, assuming life totals would be too low. I also assumed if cast turn 3 I had taken 5 damage (unless I had been playing countermagic or removal every turn) and turn 4 I had taken 10, plus any shock/pain/fetch damage.

Overall I'm pretty encouraged by the results. I'm convinced that the build is fast enough to roll over any deck not running countermagic or discard, except for ultra-fast Krenko builds, but I'm also comfortable that enough countermagic, removal, and other disruption is included to win those match-ups.

I think Zur, Azami, and similar decks will be the most difficult match-up. Any such deck that brings superior counter magic to the table is a concern. However, I have literally never seen a player in Hamilton running Zur, and the other similar decks I find suck against the ultrafast aggro - they just get overwhelmed and are slower than Oona, so they can't get back into it. Hopefully Zur won't show, and I can dodge the others in the early rounds and get into the winner's bracket, which they sould be absent from (historically they have not done well here).

Hopefully I can get some actualy game testing in tonight at the LGS.