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Thread: W/b Token Mania!

  1. #1
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    W/b Token Mania!

    Current List (as of 4/16/2018):

    W/b Tokens

    Lands (21)
    4 Marsh Flats
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Scrubland
    1 Savannah
    4 Plains
    1 Swamp
    1 Karakas

    Creatures (8)
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Stoneforge Mystic

    Spells (31)
    2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    4 Bitterblossom
    4 Lingering Souls
    4 Spectral Procession
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Humility
    1 Umezawa’s Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Batterskull

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Zealous Persecution
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    1 Circle of Protection: Red
    1 Rest in Peace
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ensnaring Bridge

    The sideboard is a mess. It's untested, suboptimal, and very likely to change.

    Original Post:
    Okay, so for some reason, I got an urge to build a token deck. A really strong urge. They printed some really strong token generators and one-time token effects lately, and so I went to work. I've been working on this all day. I did a search in MWS for "token" in the text box and searched for both black and white cards. I started with a list of about 40-50 different cards, and then trimmed it down. This is what I ended up with:

    W/b Token Mania!

    // Lands (22)
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    4 [R] Scrubland
    8 [UNH] Plains
    2 [UNH] Swamp
    2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
    1 [MI] Crystal Vein
    1 [US] Gaea's Cradle

    // Spells (38)
    4 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 [SOM] Elspeth Tirel
    4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
    4 [MR] Raise the Alarm
    4 [DKA] Gather the Townsfolk
    4 [DKA] Lingering Souls
    4 [SHM] Spectral Procession
    4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
    3 [RAV] Hour of Reckoning
    4 [ISD] Intangible Virtue

    // Sideboard (15)
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
    SB: 4 [AP] Vindicate
    SB: 4 [HOP] Relic of Progenitus

    So obviously the deck isn't Tier 1 or anything, but it's definitely not for the casual forum. The deck was suprisingly good in the two games I played on MWS, going 2-0 against Affinity and 2-1 against a B/G Rock deck (the loss was due to a mull to 5 in game 2, drew only 2 lands all game, and only drew top heavy spells).

    What I like about this deck is the Goblins-ish feel. The deck just... keeps... dropping... doods. It's funny how few decks can handle a constant stream of 1/1 tokens. Even against Deed and Maelstrom Pulse (which the B/G Rock deck had), I was able to just keep overloading my opponent.

    I realize this deck has an atrocious combo matchup. I'm willing to accept that. Postboard, Leyline of Sanctity + Cabal Therapy isn't bad. The opponent isn't going to win with EtW vs me, just not gonna happen, and Leyline keeps Tendrils from hitting me. I realize they can bounce it, then I'm dead. The Therapy is nice with all the tokens. Against a combo deck, my goldfish isn't too bad though, so if they don't bounce the Leyline in time, I have a chance at winning. Bad matchup regardless, but I'm okay with that. There's plenty of blue in the format to keep combo in check.

    Against aggro, aggro/control, and control, I'm pretty happy with the deck.

    Sorin is my MVP, pumping out lifelinking tokens, but more importantly, giving me permanent Emblems. Hour of Reckoning is my other MVP. One-sided Wrath of God that doesn't touch my tokens? Sign me up!

    My 1cc curve is bad, but I can't really think of a good way to fix that. There's not a whole lot that is synergistic with my gameplan in the 1cc slot.

    I'm pretty happy with the maindeck overall, but the sideboard is just a throw-together. I considered a few options here, like Humility and Ajani Goldmane, but I'm not sure what the sideboard really needs with only 2 test games on MWS.

    Oh, and this deck was a blast to play.

    Feel free to toss out suggestions, guys.
    Last edited by Hanni; 04-16-2018 at 09:16 AM.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  2. #2

    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    If you are going to run Gaea's Cradle, wouldn't something like White sun's Zenith or Decree of Justice be with considering?
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    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

  3. #3
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    That's definitely a possibility. I initially had both Decree, White Sun, and several other "pay X make X tokens" cards in the big list of cards I started with, but ultimately cut them because they were inefficient. With Cradle, I can see them being nuts... but at the point where I have enough tokens to make Cradle into Decree/White Sun worth it, that seems like it might be win-more. Definitely worth testing, though.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  4. #4
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    needs more contamination!!! I mean continuous token generators+contamination=gg

  5. #5

    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    That's definitely a possibility. I initially had both Decree, White Sun, and several other "pay X make X tokens" cards in the big list of cards I started with, but ultimately cut them because they were inefficient. With Cradle, I can see them being nuts... but at the point where I have enough tokens to make Cradle into Decree/White Sun worth it, that seems like it might be win-more. Definitely worth testing, though.
    The one thing I can see happening, as corner case as it may be, is being at a stalemate with an opponent for whatever reason, and the X guys get there, such as being stuck behind a moat or what have you, even if you cannot go the Cheap route with Decree, I feel with cradle, Decree should be in the 75.
    Belcher
    Delver
    Dredge

    When your heart won't beat, your eyes go black
    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

  6. #6
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    needs more contamination!!! I mean continuous token generators+contamination=gg
    I'm not sure... I mean, it would totally destroy the Tier 1 DTB's and whatnot, but my deck is primarily white. I can't keep consistently making tokens if I can't produce white mana. I'd need to run some alternate mana sources if I went that route, like Chrome Mox or something.

    The one thing I can see happening, as corner case as it may be, is being at a stalemate with an opponent for whatever reason, and the X guys get there, such as being stuck behind a moat or what have you, even if you cannot go the Cheap route with Decree, I feel with cradle, Decree should be in the 75.
    Well, I play 12 flying token spells (4 being Bitterblossom, which is a constant effect). I mean, I see the benefit of Decree/Zenith, but it still seems win-more to me. I have plenty of flying tokens to fly over opposing aggro, and plenty of tokens to block the opponent's guys. If the game gets to the mid-late game, I just token-advantage my opponent out of the game, kinda the way Goblins does once it starts chaining Matrons and Ringleaders. The problem is the start up, which can sometimes be slow against disruption (or bad draws, i.e manaflood or manascrew). I'm already somewhat top-heavy, and I really don't want to be running cards that are dead in hand until I'm already winning...

    I'm also not even sure if I need the singleton Cradle. I added it cause if I have 2 tokens on the board, it's an Ancient Tomb that doesn't cause me lifeloss, and if I have more than 2, it will front all of my colorless costs for the turn.

    EDIT: On another note, I'm getting pissed off at MWS. I run 22 fucking lands. Why do I keep drawing 1 land hands every single game in my opening 7? Ugh...

    I definitely need to cut 1 basic Swamp. Drawing 2 Swamps early is pissing me off. Spectral Procession wants WWW, and it seems like I draw 2 Swamps everytime I have a Procession or two in hand.

    I'm also not sure how bad I actually need the mana ramp at all. Turn 2 Lingering Souls and turn 3 Planeswalker's are nice and all, but I do run 16 2cc spells to cover my curve at 2. I'm thinking I can drop the cute shit altogether and just run straight up Plains and a single Swamp. Maybe I'll fit in a singleton Kjeldoran Outpost or something. Anyway, I need to work on this manabase some more.

    EDIT 2: Here's the new manabase...

    // Lands (22)
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    4 [R] Scrubland
    8 [UNH] Plains
    1 [UNH] Swamp
    1 [AL] Kjeldoran Outpost
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  7. #7
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    So I too am very interested in playing a W/B tokens deck.

    I plan on running the below list at the Star city Tampa this Sun. I feel that given the meta lately tokens is positioned well not to suck.

    I have also added other Staples to my list. I stole Tech. from standards souls sisters lists, and found room for a Stoneforge Mystic package.

    Without further ado here is the list:


    4 Soul Warden
    4 Soul's Attendant
    11 Plains
    2 Auriok Champion
    3 Shrine of Loyal Legions
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Batterskull
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Midnight Haunting
    4 Lingering Souls
    4 Scrubland
    3 Ajani's Pridemate
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 Doomed Traveler
    2 Vault of the Archangel
    1 Swamp
    3 Marsh Flats
    3 Timely Reinforcements

    Sideboard
    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Leyline of Sanctity
    4 Serenity
    3 Ethersworn Canonist

    I would be very interested in what people have to say before Sunday.

    Personally, have found Bitterblossom to be too slow. I think Elspeth, Knight Errant is better than Sorin because she is more aggressive and therefore ends the game sooner. I should probably find more slots for her, and the actual card. I only own 1.

    Shrine of loyal Legions is totally busted in this type of Mono-white deck. Especially if you are doing well with your soul sisters (Soul Warden / Soul's Attendant)

    Vault of the Archangel is out of control nutz.

    This deck is good against contol - Stoneblade ...

    This deck is good against Aggro - Zoo ...

    This deck is good against burn. - All the life gain and too many targets.

    This deck s fair against tempo - Team America. You out threat them.

    This deck is untested agains combo. I too assume it is bad, however I assume it is okay post board.

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Thoughts?
    Vault of the Archangel is a sweet find. I didn't even know that land existed. I'm gonna try some of those.

    As far as the rest of your deck goes, I think there are some really suboptimal card choices, no offense.

    Shrine of Loyal Legions is bad. So you pay 2 mana, and then have to cast some number of white spells first, then pay another 3 mana and sac it, to make some amount of vanilla 1/1 tokens. Why would you ever run that over something like Spectral Procession, which costs 3 mana one time and gives you three 1/1 flying tokens?

    Honestly, it looks like you're going for more of a lifegain deck than a token deck. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you should focus on a specific strategy, rather than dilute yourself. My deck is incredibly linear, wanting to just continuously drop 1/1 tokens. There's also a lifegain deck that saw some success a while ago that focused strictly on lifegain. I'd say figure out what you want to do, and then focus on that.

    I'm not trying to be rude by any means, I'm simply trying to be constructive and help you. Please do not take offense to my post.

    Personally, have found Bitterblossom to be too slow. I think Elspeth, Knight Errant is better than Sorin because she is more aggressive and therefore ends the game sooner. I should probably find more slots for her, and the actual card. I only own 1.
    Bitterblossom has been awesome for me. Vanilla 1/1 tokens can be easy for some decks to deal with by blocking, but 1/1 flying tokens usually go straight through to the opponent. It's an engine card for the deck, producing 1/1 tokens every turn. It's slow if you look at it as a stand-alone, but when you combine it with other spells that make tokens, it's not slow at all. Like I said, it's an engine card... think of it as incrimental card advantage, if you will.

    Sorin is a fucking beast in my deck. It might be different in your deck, because you focus less on 1/1 tokens, and you run so much lifegain that his lifelink tokens might not matter. For me, the +1/+0 Emblem is far more aggressive than a temporary +3/+3 flying buff, and the tokens he makes are better than the ones Elspeth makes.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  9. #9

    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    I think Elspeth would be better if you need an immediate impact and support, while Sorin's emblem is something that can break a deadlock. Sorin would be a better choice if there is a huge number of tokens,

    SFM should be a good fit too, a couple of swords and Jitte can't hurt. What about Zealous Persecution and Doom Traveler as a 1 drop?

  10. #10
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Vault of the Archangel is a sweet find. I didn't even know that land existed. I'm gonna try some of those.
    They are good at breaking games wide open.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    As far as the rest of your deck goes, I think there are some really suboptimal card choices, no offense.
    Certainly, none taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Shrine of Loyal Legions is bad. So you pay 2 mana, and then have to cast some number of white spells first, then pay another 3 mana and sac it, to make some amount of vanilla 1/1 tokens. Why would you ever run that over something like Spectral Procession, which costs 3 mana one time and gives you three 1/1 flying tokens?
    There are a couple of reasons. It is something very meaningful to do after a board wipe. There are many time you can stop attacks with just having the potential to put 5+ 1/1's on the board while you are still adding to the counter. It gets counters on upkeeps and white spells. I'm not sure about the deck you are running but token decks are grindy kind of decks. This is the thing that kills many of my opponents. They can deal with a lot of 2 or 3 for 1's for a bit then bam here comes a 10 or 15 for 1.

    It is the same reason people are suggesting White Sun's Zenith for your list. It just (in my opinion) does it far more efficiently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Honestly, it looks like you're going for more of a lifegain deck than a token deck. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you should focus on a specific strategy, rather than dilute yourself. My deck is incredibly linear, wanting to just continuously drop 1/1 tokens. There's also a lifegain deck that saw some success a while ago that focused strictly on lifegain. I'd say figure out what you want to do, and then focus on that.
    I've tried build similar to yours how do you fair against fast aggro like zoo? I found that my lists were well short of what was needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    I'm not trying to be rude by any means, I'm simply trying to be constructive and help you. Please do not take offense to my post.
    I don't think you are a good critique can yeild good results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Bitterblossom has been awesome for me. Vanilla 1/1 tokens can be easy for some decks to deal with by blocking, but 1/1 flying tokens usually go straight through to the opponent. It's an engine card for the deck, producing 1/1 tokens every turn. It's slow if you look at it as a stand-alone, but when you combine it with other spells that make tokens, it's not slow at all. Like I said, it's an engine card... think of it as incrimental card advantage, if you will.
    I was having issues with the life loss and the attrition wars. An early un-answered Batterskull by your opponent will trump BB. I was seeing that a lot. I felt that Elspeth and BB filled very similar roles, but the added functionality of Elspeth (or your case Sorin) proved (to me) to be a better use for the slot. Now that I'm running soul sisters BB and a sister is quite good. ...I just don't think it's better than Elspeth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Sorin is a fucking beast in my deck. It might be different in your deck, because you focus less on 1/1 tokens, and you run so much lifegain that his lifelink tokens might not matter. For me, the +1/+0 Emblem is far more aggressive than a temporary +3/+3 flying buff, and the tokens he makes are better than the ones Elspeth makes.
    This is true. The main difference is Elspeths +3/+3 flying ability is positive loyalty where as Tirel and Sorins are negative. ...also I do not see the need to run Tirel and Hour of Reckoning. I'd just run another Tirel in that slot.

    This make it very hard for your opponent to deal with as you never have to lower Elspeth KE's loyalty to win. Making a quick 4/4 Ajani's Pridmate Flying and 7/7 will end games pretty quick.

  11. #11
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    There are a couple of reasons. It is something very meaningful to do after a board wipe. There are many time you can stop attacks with just having the potential to put 5+ 1/1's on the board while you are still adding to the counter. It gets counters on upkeeps and white spells. I'm not sure about the deck you are running but token decks are grindy kind of decks. This is the thing that kills many of my opponents. They can deal with a lot of 2 or 3 for 1's for a bit then bam here comes a 10 or 15 for 1.
    I laugh at sweepers. Unless it's a constant sweep effect like Umezawa's Jitte, I just rebuild. Between the Planeswalker's, Bitterblossom, and Lingering Souls, I just make new ones. Or I just topdeck another token spell off the top, since nearly my entire deck is token spells.

    I've tried build similar to yours how do you fair against fast aggro like zoo? I found that my lists were well short of what was needed.
    So far I've been doing great against Zoo-like decks. I run a million chumpers for their aggro, and my lategame is way better than theirs.

    Now if you're talking a more Sligh-like deck, then it can be pretty difficult. My clock isn't as fast as their burn, and my lifegain is slow to come online. I'm running 4 Leylines for the Burn/Sligh matchup, though.

    I was having issues with the life loss and the attrition wars. An early un-answered Batterskull by your opponent will trump BB. I was seeing that a lot. I felt that Elspeth and BB filled very similar roles, but the added functionality of Elspeth (or your case Sorin) proved (to me) to be a better use for the slot. Now that I'm running soul sisters BB and a sister is quite good. ...I just don't think it's better than Elspeth.
    Eh, I'm not worried about Batterskull. I chump Batterskull into oblivion. Yea, they gain a bunch of life. Eventually I'll have enough tokens + pumps to start tearing chunks into it though, and with the amount of fliers I run, that's only a matter of time. Not saying that Batterskull is something I want to see or face off against; just saying I can deal with it. Plus, I am running Swords to answer an early Stoneforge Mystic, and Hour of Reckoning once I get going. I'm much more afraid of Umezawa's Jitte. In fact, any deck running SFM that grabs Batterskull instead of Jitte against me is pretty dumb, or doesn't know what I'm playing.

    This is true. The main difference is Elspeths +3/+3 flying ability is positive loyalty where as Tirel and Sorins are negative. ...also I do not see the need to run Tirel and Hour of Reckoning. I'd just run another Tirel in that slot.
    I'm not really worried about the loyalty counters. Outside of direct damage (burn), I run enough blockers to keep my Planeswalker's safe from attacks. Sorin's -2 creates a Permanent +1/+0 Emblem that lasts for the rest of the game, and literally doubles the power of all of my tokens. I run the single Tirel not for the ultimate, but for the immediate three 1/1 token ability. That's 3 turns worth of regular Elspeth's token generating. Plus, if I need the lifegain, she helps. If I have no other Planeswalker's out and I need the one-sided Wrath of God effect, then sure, I'll go for it.

    Also, Hour of Reckoning is disgusting in my deck. I've wrecked sooooooo many decks on MWS with that card now that it's not even funny. People think I'm playing jank, and that their board of bigger or better creatures have them in a dominant position, only to be blown out by the one-sided free Wrath of God. Muwahaha...

    I think Elspeth would be better if you need an immediate impact and support, while Sorin's emblem is something that can break a deadlock. Sorin would be a better choice if there is a huge number of tokens,

    SFM should be a good fit too, a couple of swords and Jitte can't hurt. What about Zealous Persecution and Doom Traveler as a 1 drop?
    Elspeth's temporary +3/+3 flying pump can be good in certain situations, definitely. However, with even just 5 tokens on the board (pretty easy for this deck), Sorin's pump adds 5 power, which is 2 more than Elspeth's pump, and his effect is permanent. I run a ton of fliers as it is, so the flying isn't as necessary.

    Zealous Persecution is cute and all, but it's a pretty narrow sideboard card IMO.

    I considered Doom Traveler, but at the time, I didn't think he did enough for the deck. He is a 1 drop though, so I may need to take another look at him.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  12. #12
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Wow...

    The format is so ill prepared to handle swarms of 1/1 tokens, it's not even funny. Yea, you go ahead and Plow my token, cast Snapcaster, and Plow another token. Not like your Snapcaster is getting past my other token.

    Oooo, so you cast a Deed and wiped away all of my tokens, cool. Next turn, make another one off of Sorin, flashback Lingering Souls for two more 1/1 tokens, your turn dude.

    Cabal Therapy was NUTS in a postboard game against a heavy countermagic control deck. Two Therapy's ripped his hand apart like a chainsaw. I'm definitely going to up those to 4 in the sideboard, and I'm considering cutting the Intangible Virtue's for the playset in the maindeck. I love the Virtue's, I mean they literally double the p/t of my tokens, but god dayum is Cabal Therapy a fucking animal.

    This deck is so baller. Totally rogue, totally LOOKS like it's jank, but it just smacks a motherfucker upside the head like a pimp. This is the most fun I've had playing Magic since... man I can't remember.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  13. #13

    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Mirror entity seems Good for this deck

  14. #14
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Hanni You should also try Timely Reinforcements the only time you wish you didn't draw it is when you are winning which to me is an okay trade off.

    It will also give you better MU's against sleigh builds for sure.

  15. #15
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Mirror entity seems Good for this deck
    That's an interesting inclusion. It opens me up to spot removal, which I am otherwise extremely resilient to, and doesn't play nice with Hour of Reckoning, but it does have the instant-win factor, especially with a Cradle on the board. I like it alot better than Decree or White Sun, at any rate.

    Hanni You should also try Timely Reinforcements the only time you wish you didn't draw it is when you are winning which to me is an okay trade off.

    It will also give you better MU's against sleigh builds for sure.
    Could be a good sideboard option for Burn and Sligh decks for the lifegain, but the problem with using it as a token-maker is that I almost always have more creatures in play than my opponent's, so it will rarely ever make tokens. At 3cc, I'd rather run both Lingering Souls and Spectral Procession.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  16. #16
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    If I were battling with a token deck, I'd fill it with as many Jitte as possible. Both because they're awesome with all the 1/1 fliers, but also to kill off any pointy sticks my opponent might have. An enemy SFM into Jitte means you're going to be losing guys in multiples each turn. I don't even think you'd need SFM of your own if you just use three or four Jitte.

  17. #17
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    Quote Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk View Post
    If I were battling with a token deck, I'd fill it with as many Jitte as possible. Both because they're awesome with all the 1/1 fliers, but also to kill off any pointy sticks my opponent might have. An enemy SFM into Jitte means you're going to be losing guys in multiples each turn. I don't even think you'd need SFM of your own if you just use three or four Jitte.
    I'm sure you know this, but Jitte is legendary. So you would want the SFM package to race your opponent to it. It might be good to pack two though. One to trigger the legend rule for opponent Jitte's (if they are running it) and the second to hang around and whop some tail.

  18. #18
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    The idea was to keep it creature-less. If you add SFM, you have to add Batterskull (which would actually gain +1/+1 from Virtue lol). It's up to you. I know an argument against SFM would be hard to find an argument besides that it'd blank their removal.

    I guess Jitte also suffers from this dilemma so maybe that's why it's not in there.

    Also, good elves players realized with Gaea's Cradle that running less than 4 was wrong. Because if you are stuck with one in hand, then you have one in play and are winning. Same goes for the Jitte in a deck of 1/1 fliers.

  19. #19
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    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    I've actually cut the Virtue's from the maindeck for Cabal Therapy. The pump was nice, but the discard has been game winning in just about every single matchup.

    I agree that enemy Jitte's can be a problem, but I don't want to solve it with Jitte of my own. As nice as Jitte on a flier would be, it's not an effect that this deck actually needs. I played the deck all day yesterday and today on MWS, and the deck has no problems dealing with small dorks on the other side of the table. The deck doesn't need any more maindeck lifegain effects (with the exception being the Burn matchup), and the pump isn't important either.

    Given the popularity of Stoneblade, it would be nice to have some sort of answer for it in the maindeck. The best solution would be Vindicate, which is multi-purpose and solves alot of other problems as well.

    I can cut the Elspeth Tiriel. As a one-of, I rarely see her, she's topheavy at 5 mana, and she's worthless if I have another Elspeth already on the board. I like running 4 Sorin's because I can blow them on Emblem's if I draw multiples, but I can't do that with Elspeth Knight-Errant.

    I can cut 1 Hour of Reckoning, since two maindeck should be fine, and I can fit another two in the sideboard. That frees up room for 2 maindeck Vindicates, and the remaining two can also go in the sideboard.

    I tested out Vault of the Archangel, and only used it one time, despite drawing it frequently. At 4 mana activation, essentially requiring 5 lands in play, it was never worth it. However, the amount of times having it get hit by Wasteland, not provide colored mana, cause me additional damage from Price of Progress... totally not worth it. I'm at the point now where I just don't think this deck needs any utility lands. A nice rock solid manabase is far more important to this deck.

    I haven't posted my recent changes in a while, but this is what I'm running now:

    W/b Token Mania!

    // Lands (22)
    4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    4 [R] Scrubland
    8 [UNH] Plains
    2 [UNH] Swamp

    // Spells (38)
    4 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
    2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 [MOR] Bitterblossom
    4 [MR] Raise the Alarm
    4 [DKA] Gather the Townsfolk
    4 [DKA] Lingering Souls
    4 [SHM] Spectral Procession
    4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [AP] Vindicate
    2 [RAV] Hour of Reckoning
    4 [JU] Cabal Therapy

    // Sideboard (15)
    SB: 2 [AP] Vindicate
    SB: 2 [RAV] Hour of Reckoning
    SB: 3 [US] Duress
    SB: 4 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
    SB: 4 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

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  20. #20

    Re: W/b Token Mania!

    I tried your old list and agree with almost all of the changes. Vindicate is something this list had been missing. I still think there is a case for Jitte without Stone Forge, maybe the Hour of Reckoning covers for those situations but it is a good solid offensive weapon.

    I tried Vault of the Archangel too, I also find it far too hard to use. I really like Zealous Persecution, it doesn't look like much but its low cost makes it usable and the effects can be interesting in either defence or offence.

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