W/b Token Mania!

**Hanni** · 03-07-2012 08:05 PM

Yeah, I figured it wasn't just one card, but most of the cards listed above are under 3CMC The exceptions are:

FOW
Ad Nauseam

FOW I would never grab. You want to make people exile the blue card. On Sun. I had people exile a Jace, TM & a Geist of ST just to Force token spells... Who do you think won that one?

You make a good argument. Although... Inquisition doesn't hit Armageddon, Wildfire, Thran Dynamo, or etc against Stax decks (I have yet to win a matchup against any Stax variants). Stax isn't a DTB though, and Inquisition is likely better against the DTB (minus Batterskull), so I will try Inquisition over Thoughtseize.

Hanni, your latest decklist wants its black mana sources not later than turn 1 but still wants on turn 3. It can be difficult in format full of Wasteland.
I tested similar "tokenguy" decklist with Blade Splicer as replacement for Spectral Procession.
The worst disadvantage is lack of evasion, but Jitte on 3/3 colorless First Striker beats Goyfs and Sword of X&Y-equipped dorks.
I also tested Promise of Bunrei and as expected it was too conditional to be good. Splicer felt better.

My newest list runs the same amount of colored sources as I have been running for a while now. I cut 2 business spells for 2 more lands, so now I'm at 24. Even against a field of Wasteland, this deck does not have problems hitting WW. I would rather pay 2WW for Procession than 2W for Splicer. Splicer is a good card, but three 1/1 flying tokens applies much more board presence for this deck than a vanilla 1/1 and a 3/3 first strike.

I frequently cast Procession with my manabase on turn 3 with WWW. Even against Wasteland, I'm up to 24 lands now with 4 Wasteland of my own, so that gameplan goes two ways, and I'm likely running more basics and more lands than they are.

Also, dropping a Scrubland on turn 1 is not the end of the world.

EDIT: Also, this deck curves very well for the entire early game and majority of the midgame, so if I'm at a point where I can't cast Procession on turn 3, the chances are pretty good that I have other relevant spells to play on turn 3.

**Freggle** · 03-08-2012 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Freggle

I think the best thing to do is hammer out the pros and cons of common ground. Like the pros and cons of running Elspeth K-E vs. Elspth Tirel. Or what is the optimal token equipment package.

I'll have to think about these things and write later as for now I have run out of time. Later.

So I thought about it.

On Equipment:

1. Umezawa's Jitte

Jitte s that good. The fact that it runs double duty in fighting opponents Jitte's and being excellent at everything when equipped it is exactly what the deck needs.

2. Sword of Feast and Famine

If running Vault of the Archangel this could be the catalyst to put the deck over the top. It is also useful to use mana to equip things ( like paying 5 for Batterskul) or forge things in via your Stoneforge Mystics, and still have mana for spells. It is a major advantage.

3. Batterskull (especially in the lifegain version)

This card is just too good to pass up. It can single-handily close out games all on it's own. Equip this on a flier and it's virtually lights out.

Honorable Mention: Sword of Fire and Ice

This is a good back-up to packing a second Jitte. It will help keep the board clean in unison with a Jitte (will not evoke the legend rule) It also has very relevant protections in red and blue. Red is good vs. burn, and the blue is good vs. combo. An Ethersworn Canonist equipped with F&I should be game.

Sideboard:

5. Manriki-Gusari

This would be great against any deck also running Stoneforge Mystic. It's an efficient reliable way to rid creatures of any pro White / Pro black swords.

This is the starting point of the debate. What do others feel?

I'll have to come back to the Elspeth debate when I have a bit more time.

**That_RaginG_Homo** · 03-10-2012 01:28 AM

I understand this isnt very synergistic with your gameplan, but have you considered cutting Spec Proc for Promise of the Bunrei and then running Wasteland and Smallpox type cards? Smallpox in particular seems good, since you dont mind losing the creature or discarding, although it might prevent you from playing Sorin :/

I also think Elspeth Tirel is better than Knight-Errant. I feel like you would almost always rather play Sorin than Knight-Errant, and at 5 mana Tirel is mugh more powerful. This deck is quite good at grinding games out anyways, so isnt the lifegain and sweeper of Tirel better than the pump on Knight-Errant?

Humility seems better than Moat for the same reason Quinn runs it; either one is game ending, for the most part (even more so in this deck than Quinn), but Humility cant be killed by Pridemage.

On the topic of Stoneforge Mystic, I feel this isnt the deck for it. In your previous versions of the deck, you had no non-token creatures except for some toolbox ones, making your deck nigh invulnerable to removal similar to how burn is. Especially preboard, wouldnt Stoneforge just eat all the removal your opponent has no other targets for?

And Im sorry if this has been addressed and I missed it, but what was your reasoning for not running pumps like Leyline of the Meek and Intangible Virtue, which you included in earlier versions?

**Hanni** · 03-10-2012 01:44 AM

On the topic of Stoneforge Mystic, I feel this isnt the deck for it. In your previous versions of the deck, you had no non-token creatures except for some toolbox ones, making your deck nigh invulnerable to removal similar to how burn is. Especially preboard, wouldnt Stoneforge just eat all the removal your opponent has no other targets for?

And Im sorry if this has been addressed and I missed it, but what was your reasoning for not running pumps like Leyline of the Meek and Intangible Virtue, which you included in earlier versions?

Well, Stoneforge Mystic is just a Squire. I don't run Batterskull, and so I never intend to use SFM to cheat any equipments into play. It was either run Raise the Alarm for two 1/1 tokens, or SFM for an equipment tutor and a 1/2 "token." SFM can go ahead and eat removal, it's no better than any of my other tokens, and regardless if it eats removal, I still have a Jitte or SoFI in hand.

As far as the pumps go, I didn't think they did enough for me. Although, maybe that's because I started taking the deck in a different direction. Going back to the roots and focusing on pump + tokens is still a viable way to build the deck. The only reason I've evolved my build the way I have, is because it's more well-rounded and addresses the weaknesses of the original build.

**Freggle** · 03-10-2012 11:47 AM