[Deck] Living Dead Girl

[lyracian]

If you are playing B/U anyway would Diregraf Captain not help? I also like the idea of using Smallpox although it may not really work well with your own mana dorks.

I love the deck name even if I do not see any connection between it and no blocks? It may be a bad deck, but as you say you wont know until you give it a try and any Zombie deck is worth trying out.

[Hanni]

Aggro Zombies, I didn't mean to snap, so don't take my post the wrong way. Most of that was directed towards Anusien, who first called me "amateurish" in my Blue Sligh thread after making horrible suggestions, and then popped in here with a one-liner that was absolutely stupid.

The argument against graveyard hate is valid, I realize that. Going into this thing, I knew graveyard hate would be an issue, obviously. I playtested with an Intuition Vengevine deck before, right after Survival got banned, and so this deck creation wasn't started without any prior experiences with those issues.

As far as Snapcaster + 8 Plows + 4 Extirpates, sure. If I don't sideboard into Duress + Therapy to rape their hand first before putting sensitive cards into my graveyard, those cards are going to wreck me. I don't see how this deck would fold to that gameplan any worse than Dredge would. Dredge losing Bridge and having its Ichorid's Plow'd falls apart. At least this deck can try and drop some more dudes and swing, especially if the opponent hasn't drawn into SFM + equipment, cause a 2/1 Snapcaster isn't going to stand up to a swarm of 2/1's. And 4 Snapcaster + 8 Plows alone isn't enough to exile every single one of my 29 creatures.

Besides, looking at Gravecrawler and Bloodghasts as Jackal Pups is incorrect. Aside from Pups drawback, he's a vanilla 2/1 and that's it. Gravecrawlers and Bloodghasts keep coming back from the dead and maintain pressure, especially once the opponent gets to 10 or less life. You also cannot overlook that fact that even 1-2 turns of Carrion Feeder + Crawler/Ghasts can grow Feeder into a massively large creature that rivals the likes of creatures like Knight of the Reliquary, Countryside Crusher, Terravore, Scavenging Ooze, and other "grow" creatures. The beauty here is that he is a 1cc creature.

As far as gravehate is concerned, aside from being able to dodge it by either bringing in Null Rod, Nature's Claim, or Cabal Therapy (depending on the matchup), the deck can still play through graveyard hate.

Let's assume a scenario like this, just for arguments sake. I go turn 1 Birds. I have not opened myself up to graveyard hate yet, so there's no "Bridge from Below" in my graveyard for their Extraction to hit. Turn 2, I cast Intuition for Vine/Vine/Gravecrawler. On turn 3, I cast Carrion Feeder, and in response, my opponent Extractions my Vines. I proceed to grow my Feeder several points with Gravecrawler, and pass the turn. On my following turn, I cast Buried Alive for Bloodghast x3, drop a fetch, recur Bloodghasts, sac them, crack fetch, recur Bloodghasts. Spend extra mana on Feeder/Crawler interaction, and end up with a massively large Carrion Feeder, 3 Bloodghasts, and a Gravecrawler on the board.

Even if my opponent topdecks another graveyard hate spell at that point, they cant blow my yard like they could against Dredge, and I have a massive board presense. Switch a Bloodghast with a Wonder for ton of airborne damage if the situation calls for it. Now the opponent not only needs an answer to a swarm of "Jackal Pups," they also need an answer to a 10/10 or larger Carrion Feeder.

The deck is alot more resilient to graveyard hate than Dredge, and still goldfishes on turn 3-4. Maybe it doesn't have the broken turn 2-3 goldfish, but the deck isn't an all-in combo-esque deck that rolls over to graveyard hate. The deck is a dumb aggro deck that uses its graveyard to do broken things (less broken than Dredge), but can manage to still be a dumb aggro deck even if the opponent hits me with graveyard hate. A swarm of 2/1's may not seem scary to you, but if you don't keep drawing graveyard hate, they will keep coming back into play.

The deck can also race graveyard hate if an opponent doesn't mulligan into one. First turn Careful Study pitching Vines into turn two 2 creatures, swing for 8 still puts on a strong board presence, especially if the two creatures I put into play are a Carrion Feeder and Gravecrawler. The deck doesn't need a Study turn 1, either. It can also do strong turn 2 starts like that with a turn 2 Putrid Imp + another creature, draw depending of course.

My point is, you guys came into this thread with baseless accusations of this deck being a pile of garbage, it being unplayable because it "folds to graveyard hate," and blanket statements of "Dredge is a better deck," without even playing a single game on MWS to determine if your opinions were enough to deserve coming in and flaming the deck idea.

I DO want this deck to be competitive. If I didn't, I would have posted it in Casual. At the same time, this is the forum for New and Developmental, and I never read anywhere that a deck had to be Tier 1 quality to be worthy of getting a thread. Hell, both Maverick and Nic Fit started out as "jank" decks in N&D with people just like you and Anusien bashing the hell out of them. Where are those decks now? In the DTB forum.

Or what about RUG? Delvers can race you pretty well early unless you want to chump with Imps, and then you need to worry about Bolt - Snapcaster - Bolt in the midgame backed by Tarmogoyfs stabilizing on the ground. What do you do if you can't resolve Imp or a timely Intuition/Buried Alive? Die? Try to race with hardcast 1/x and 2/x guys, some of which will die every combat? That seems suspect to me.

Delvers can race... Delver comes into play turn 1, has less than a 50% chance of flipping without an upkeep Brainstorm, and even blindflipped swings for 3 on turn 2. This deck has the ability to swing with 1-4 Vengevines on turn 2. Now, if you would have said that Blue Sligh could race this deck, that would be one thing. That deck can most definitely goldfish this deck with the right draws.

The only spell in RUG Tempo's maindeck that scares me is Stifle. Mongoose is slow, Tarmogoyf can be slow. I run a ton of mana dorks and enough lands otherwise to play around Daze, I don't actually need to resolve a Buried Alive/Intuition to go hardcore spam the board Affinity style beatdown (which you'd know if you were to goldfish with the deck even a handful of times), and I run 7 of my tutor bombs that I can eventually force one through. If I fetch heavy Underground Seas, Wonder will allow me to fly over Tarmogoyfs, and my 2/1 "Jackal Pup" army suddenly becomes scary. Or, you know, swing in with three 4/3's, or a large 10/10.

I'm not saying this deck is a metacrusher, but you act like this is a pile of jank that wouldn't win a single game in a tournament, and that is blatantly false.

What about Maverick, particularly the red-splash versions with Punishing Fires? So you side in Therapies to get their GSZs (assuming they don't just cast them right away), but how do you beat them consistently killing your enablers? Land, Bloodghast every turn? Hardcast Vengevines into their (most likely) larger Knights? Pray you can get there with your singleton Wonder in the yard? Don't you, say, want some removal lest you get wrecked by Ooze and large blockers in games 2 and 3? A creature-based deck that is not a fast combo deck (like Dredge or Reanimator) that has no actual creature removal whatsoever seems very, very loose.

I've already discussed my experiences with this matchup so far. This reply is already long enough, so please refer to my post above.

If you are playing B/U anyway would Diregraf Captain not help? I also like the idea of using Smallpox although it may not really work well with your own mana dorks.

I love the deck name even if I do not see any connection between it and no blocks? It may be a bad deck, but as you say you wont know until you give it a try and any Zombie deck is worth trying out.

Diregraf Captain has nice synergy with Gravecrawler and Carrion Feeder, so that's an interesting option. I'm going to keep that one in mind. I remember seeing a thread about that combo with Ashnod's Altar, but I was trying to keep away from assembling combo pieces and focusing straight on beatdown. I'll tinker with some ideas regarding that, though.

As far as the name, like I told Mr. Safety, when I was thinking of deck names, that song came on in my music player. The AKA Can't Block! is just a reference to the 16 creatures I'm running with the "can't block" clause. There is no correlation between the two names.

[Freggle]

As far as gravehate is concerned, aside from being able to dodge it by either bringing in Null Rod, Nature's Claim, or Cabal Therapy (depending on the matchup), the deck can still play through graveyard hate.

Null Rod should really be Surgical Extraction if not Extirpate.

You can get all the remaining extractions if someone gets a good creature out of the yard with theirs. ...plus it's just randomly good. It also lets you see their hand (as well as their entire deck) adding more value to Cabal Therapy and game 3 SB strategies.

[Hanni]

The Null Rod is there as an answer to artifact-based graveyard hate like Crypt, Nihil Spellbomb, Relic, etc. The fact that it hoses Affinity, hits combos artifact mana, and can randomly shut down other stuff makes it useful.

Running my own Extractions is definitely an interesting idea, though. Discard + Extraction isn't a bad answer to graveyard hate. I might tweak my sideboard numbers a bit to fit in a few. Thanks for the suggestion.

EDIT: I'll address the other suggestions later. I'm going to step away from my computer for right now. Anusien and Aggro Zombies have me all typed out.

[Anusien]

The problem with your hypothetical situation against an Extraction deck is that you basically drew perfect and they only got to cast a single spell.

You don't have the luxury of sitting around and waiting to tear their hand apart with Thoughtseize and Therapy. Not only is your deck positioned to be the beatdown (fewer relevant disruption and removal, less benefit from the game going late the way they have planeswalkers and such), but if you are all-in on this plan of "Get rid of Extraction and Snapcaster Mage before I do anything" it you up to just getting turn 1 Delvered out of the game. Or they go turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic fetching Batterskull. If you Thoughtseize away the Batterskull, you can't take the Extraction/Snapcaster combo.

You don't actually understand how Dredge fights graveyard hate. In part, a single Surgical Extraction is fairly poor because Dredge has an incredible diversity of ways to win: Ichorid, Bridge from Below, Dread Return. So do you, but the problem is that you have to set them up, and you can't diversify in the same way. You can't fill the board as quickly as Dredge can in recovering from a Crypt. And your graveyard cards work best by doubling or tripling up; it's much harder for you to present three differently named threats.

But I've always believed that I should just ignore any deck where the deck's creator discusses what to call the deck publicly.

[Hanni]

Good, then go away.

[Mr. Safety]

I think it is quite important to have a premium amount of fetchlands in the deck, maybe even creeping into 11-12 rather than the 8 you have in the OP (I think.) Reason being: you want to be able to 'sandbag' a fetchland to prevent your Bloodghasts from getting caught up in the Tormod's Crypt activation. I love Null Rod in your sideboard, it's a really classy way to fight the hate. There's still a chance that they will get a hate down before you get Null Rod down...that's where a fetchland sitting on the battlefield uncracked can save your Ghasts. Just an interaction that I was thinking about, nothing more. I fall into the trap of just always cracking fetchlands, when sometimes it's beneficial to let them wait for the right time to save your Bloodghasts.

EDIT: Is Boneyard Wurm this deck's Tarmogoyf?

[Hanni]

I'm running 12 fetchlands in the OP...

Boneyard Wurm is interesting. I'm thinking Ghoultree would be even better. The only problem is that my creatures don't stay in the graveyard for very long, so neither of those would work well in here I don't think.

[Freggle]

I'm running 12 fetchlands in the OP...

Boneyard Wurm is interesting. I'm thinking Ghoultree would be even better. The only problem is that my creatures don't stay in the graveyard for very long, so neither of those would work well in here I don't think.

You really want Splinterfright

[GGoober]

+1 Freggle. This is the big beater for the deck, and fits very nice with the manadorks for faster acceleration. He's probably better than KotR if your plan to attack with GY dudes fail.

[Michael Keller]

Just a thought.

Seems good against Goyfs, Knight, and Ooze if it grows.

[Aggro_zombies]

Shriekmaw seems better. It's cheaper if you evoke it (useful if you are trying to get VVines back), has a relevant body if you hardcast it, and kills annoying utility creatures too. I'm not sure what black creatures are (a) common and (b) problematic for this deck, and he already has Nature's Claims and Null Rods in the sideboard for artifacts.

[Hanni]

My problem with creatures like Boneyard Wurm, Splinterfright, and Ghoultree is that I won't actually have many creatures in the graveyard. Either I'm bringing them back from the dead, or they are getting exiled (whether that be from StP or graveyard hate). The only time I can see creatures stacking up in my graveyard is against Grafdigger's Cage.

I was running Shriekmaw in a previous build of Vengevine Madness, post-Survival. I cannot believe I forgot about that card. Big Game Hunter is meh, but Shriekmaw was the tits in my old list. It answers Scavenging Ooze like a champ, can be used to recur Vengevines, and can be hardcast later for as an additional creature.

I think my old build also ran Genesis, as a way to recur Shriekmaw. That seems a bit too slow for this build, though.

At any rate, thanks for the suggestion AZ. I'm most definitely fitting those into my 75.

Maybe I should restructure the deck a little. Don't get me wrong, I've been pleased with the current configuration, but it doesn't hurt to try new things.

I'm thinking I should run a 4/3 or vice versa split of Shriekmaw and Cabal Therapy.

Shriekmaw answers Ooze, which is huge, without sacrificing too much from the deck (still triggers Vines, can be hardcast later). It can also help me push extra damage through when I don't have a Wonder in the yard.

It just seems wrong to not run Cabal Therapy in a deck with 4 Gravecrawler and 4 Bloodghast, and to a lesser extent, Vengevines.

I do not want to cut Bloodghast. They are what make turn 1 Careful Study a strong play. 12 pitchable creatures insrease the consistency of it being card advantage and a tempo boost. They also have tons of synergy with Cabal Therapy.

I'm thinking maybe it's time to cut 4 Elves of Deep Shadow and 3 Intuition. I liked the redundancy with the mana dorks and tutor 3's, but those seem like the softest spots to cut. In postboard games, I was frequently siding those out anyway.

I guess the question now would be... is blue even worth the splash anymore? Wonder is absolutely fantastic, but Faithless Looting is superior to Careful Study. I'm not even running any blue sideboard cards. Anger seems like a dumb replacement when Vengevines already have Haste, and Bloodghast's get Haste once the opponent is at 10 or less life. Brawn could be cool with a massive Carrion Feeder, but it still doesn't compare to Wonder.
Then there is always the option of running Entomb, too. I used to run this in my old list. It's clearly not as powerful as Intuition or Buried Alive, but it's alot faster at one mana, and can turn hands with a discard out + 2 creatures + Vine into a double Vine beatdown. It can also tutor midgame for a Gravecrawler if I have Vines in the yard and 1 creature in hand, so that's a cool interaction.

I could see a combination of Faithless Looting, Entomb, and Buried Alive ripping through my deck and literally swarming my opponent very quickly.

I'm going to have to think about this and playtest some things. Hmm...

[Qweerios]

Cool deck idea!

Don't argue with people that think in absolutes, they will sap your creativity.

I will test the deck out because I really want to break Bloodghast and Vengevine.

I don't think you really need a 3rd color. I think you should get more interactions instead in the form of removal and discard.

With that being said, Liliana of the Veil looks quite broken for your deck. I am surprised nobody suggested her earlier.

[Hanni]

Wow. I was doing some goldfishing with Entomb, and just... wow.

I used to run it before in the old lists, and it was a little lacking, but Gravecrawler changes that completely. Entomb basically turns into a 2cc 2/1 in worst case scenarios. What used to happen with Entomb was I only had 1 creature in hand, and a midgame Entomb could only grab a Wonder, if it wasn't already in my graveyard. Now it can grab Gravecrawler, which can either combo with Carrion Feeder if I have one in play, or be used to trigger a midgame Vengevine if I have another zombie in hand.

It also increases the explosiveness of the deck too, increasing my number of valuable turn 1 plays, which thus increases the explosiveness of my turn 2 plays. Entomb also has the ability to tutor up Wonder. A Jackal Pup army may not be threatening in the face of a few blockers, but pop Entomb for Wonder, and suddenly those four 2/1's become serious business. Entomb needs to be in the deck.

Here's the list I've cooked up:

B/g/u Living Dead Girl

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [R] Bayou
3 [R] Underground Sea
2 [UNH] Swamp

// Creatures
4 [7E] Birds of Paradise
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [SC] Carrion Feeder
4 [DKA] Gravecrawler
4 [ZEN] Bloodghast
4 [ROE] Vengevine
1 [JU] Wonder

// Spells
4 [OD] Careful Study
3 [OD] Entomb
4 [OD] Buried Alive
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 4 [US] Duress
SB: 3 [LRW] Shriekmaw

With Wonder, Shriekmaw doesn't need to be maindecked. The main reason for Shriekmaw is to handle Scavenging Ooze, which is better off being a sideboard card, IMO.

The decks been goldfishing alot faster and alot more consistently now. Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler added alot to my Vengevine deck of old. It's so much stronger now than it was post-Survival :)

Also, while not the optimal play, Cabal Therapy can be used as a discard outlet for Vengevines in an opening hand, especially if it has multiples. That interaction has happened several times in goldfishing so far, and adds yet another increase in consistency to the overall smoothness and synergy of the deck.

I have a feeling a strong deck can be made here.

Cool deck idea!

Don't argue with people that think in absolutes, they will sap your creativity.

I will test the deck out because I really want to break Bloodghast and Vengevine.

I don't think you really need a 3rd color. I think you should get more interactions instead in the form of removal and discard.

With that being said, Liliana of the Veil looks quite broken for your deck. I am surprised nobody suggested her earlier.

The third color is really good, though. Careful Study has been very strong in testing, and Wonder is a powerhouse when you swarm with 2/1's.

The problem with Liliana in here is that 12-16 of the creatures can't block (depending if you have Threshold). She's also incredibly slow at 1BB, and this deck is pretty fast. Not sure that she fits this particular build, although restructuring the deck to run spells like Smallpox could make her very valuable (in those builds).

[Qweerios]

With an Entomb package, what do you think of ditching the 3rd color and pack wastelands with a singleton Life from the Loam?

Dark Confidant also looks fitting with such a low curve.

[Hanni]

With an Entomb package, what do you think of ditching the 3rd color and pack wastelands with a singleton Life from the Loam?

Dark Confidant also looks fitting with such a low curve.

Why do I need Life from the Loam? I only need two lands in play to do most of the unfair stuff this deck can do.

Dark Confidant, on the other hand, could be good in here. My curve is low, most of my creatures are high value targets for Plow already, and he's a creature to trigger Vengevines. I'm not sure what to cut though.

[Qweerios]

A singleton LftL would allow you to Wastelock your opponent and the Dredge ability is quite fitting, especially when you dredge back LftL to dig a land and bring back Bloodghasts. Bringing back a single fetch with 4 ghasts in your GY makes a fine +8 on Carrion Feeder. Just a lategame tech for cases where your early plan goes to shit. Its only 1 slot.

[Qweerios]

So far I've got a monoblack version because the previous version I played splashed green just for BoP and hardcast VV. So I simply replaced BoP with Dark Ritual... it's even more explosive that way.


Creatures (24)
4 Putrid Imp
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Bloodghast
4 Vengevine

Instant/Sorcery (12)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Buried Alive

Other (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil

Lands (20)
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Darkblast
4 Surgical Extraction
3 Extirpate

[Freggle]

Here is an untested version that can recur Lead the Stampede and Smallpox for your engine via Eternal Witness. There is also Splinterfright to dump goodies in the yard, and Tombstalker to chew them up if plan A gets shot down.

Creatures
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
3 Eternal Witness
4 Gravecrawler
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Splinterfright
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Putrid Imp
3 Tombstalker

Spells
4 Lead the Stampede
4 Smallpox

Lands
8 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bayou
2 Forest