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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #1

    [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    The EPIC Storm



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    Last edited by Bryant Cook; 06-07-2015 at 11:32 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Interesting turn of events! I wonder how this SB will do.

    EDIT: In the Chalice-match up, you side out 8 cards but you side in 7 cards.

  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    c.) Why play The EPIC Storm (TES) over Doomsday combo? Mainly because Senseiís Diving Top is a slow card in nature, which means that Doomsday combo in nature is slow. Slow combo decks arenít good because decks like Zoo, Goblins, Burn, and Maverick now stand a chance, this is a mistake that players learned from Solidarity. On top of being slow, there are many ďpass the turnĒ piles. Losing half of your life to Doomsday and passing the turn is a very dangerous thing to do but is necessary sometimes with Doomsday variants. My largest problem with the current Doomsday decks is their alternative routes to beating blue based decks. Using a comes into play tapped land, forces a player to pass the turn, now the combo is susceptible to wasteland and stifle. Increasing the amount hate against the deck is just something I donít think is worth doing. TES is faster, doesnít pass the turn, and doesnít lose to a Wasteland.
    I agree on the small percentages SDT gives away against aggro decks, but you seem to overestimate it. The difference in average goldfish speed is about only of half a turn, and there isn't any goldfish decks in legacy anymore. When Maverick can now reliably cast a hate bear on turn 2 I'd better have SDT or DD to find my (often main deck) answers to it. And of course we still can go off before they land it whether with DD or with EtW.
    I thought it would be obvious, but no we do not use shelldock isle against a deck that plays wasteland and stifle. You beat blue decks by "playing slowly" like you say and go off once you have the edge on their hand.
    Pass the turn piles have always had marginal uses but it is sometimes the best play. Obviously not when this is going to kill you.
    You clearly lack experience with the deck so I advise you to either practice with it or cut that paragraph from your opening post.
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  4. #4

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Are you just using Inquisition of Kozilek because it removes U/w Stoneblade's non-Force of Will counters, Vendillion Clique and Snapcaster Mage in addition to G/w Maverick's hate bears instead of Deathmark to address the rise in hate bears? I usually find the problem isn't discarding their hate bears pre-emptively but removing their hate bears retro-actively is where the deck struggles, and while Inquisition of Kozilek has clear utility Wipe Away and Echoing Truth aren't really worth the miser singleton for Counterbalance or the mana inefficieny for Chalice of the Void compared to Death Mark or Chain of Vapor (especially considering Thalia makes (1)1UU and 1(1U) untenable). Non creature based hate, with the exception of Enlightened Tutor for Thorn of Amethyst, isn't very popular right now so it's probably wise to either run the better bounce card in Chain of Vapor and rely on Burning Wish -> Shattering Spree for Chalice of the Void or just run a direct answer for hate bears?

  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    While I too disagree with quite a bit of what you said about DD, Overall a great update Bryant. Inquisition in particular, very interesting.
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  6. #6

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by leegoo View Post
    While I too disagree with quite a bit of what you said about DD, Overall a great update Bryant. Inquisition in particular, very interesting.
    That's fine, you can disagree. I believe what I said is accurate, although, arguing over something small like this shouldn't be the focus of a new thread. I'm expecting people to be not very receptive to Inquisition as people in my local gaming store were not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Are you just using Inquisition of Kozilek because it removes U/w Stoneblade's non-Force of Will counters, Vendillion Clique and Snapcaster Mage in addition to G/w Maverick's hate bears instead of Deathmark to address the rise in hate bears? I usually find the problem isn't discarding their hate bears pre-emptively but removing their hate bears retro-actively is where the deck struggles, and while Inquisition of Kozilek has clear utility Wipe Away and Echoing Truth aren't really worth the miser singleton for Counterbalance or the mana inefficieny for Chalice of the Void compared to Death Mark or Chain of Vapor (especially considering Thalia makes (1)1UU and 1(1U) untenable). Non creature based hate, with the exception of Enlightened Tutor for Thorn of Amethyst, isn't very popular right now so it's probably wise to either run the better bounce card in Chain of Vapor and rely on Burning Wish -> Shattering Spree for Chalice of the Void or just run a direct answer for hate bears?
    This was discussed a bit in the last thread, I like to play the most versatile cards possible. There's often Chalice of the Void in the metagames where I play, meaning, I play Echoing Truth over Chain of Vapor. If there's no Chalices in your local Metagame feel free to play Chain, but I cannot. While I like Deathmark it doesn't provide enough roles right now for me to play it.

  7. #7

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    That's fine, you can disagree. I believe what I said is accurate, although, arguing over something small like this shouldn't be the focus of a new thread. I'm expecting people to be not very receptive to Inquisition as people in my local gaming store were not.
    I can see Inquisition over Thoughtsieze in the current meta for sure, but why not the 4th duress and 3 Inquisition in the board? It's a bit worse against the aggro matchups, but having access to it g1 off a wish seems to be worth such a small sacrifice.
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  8. #8

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by leegoo View Post
    I can see Inquisition over Thoughtsieze in the current meta for sure, but why not the 4th duress and 3 Inquisition in the board? It's a bit worse against the aggro matchups, but having access to it g1 off a wish seems to be worth such a small sacrifice.
    The only card Inquisition doesn't hit in this format that TES cares about is Force of Will. There's already 8 maindeck cards devoted to beating Force of Will. I think the extra card devoted to beating Gaddock Teeg and the new enemy in Thalia is more important.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    i am really liking the proactive idea of inquisition over the reactive nature of pyroblast/reb. the whole idea of this deck is to provoke situations that are difficult for your opponent to answer, so with that i think inquisition will be a fantastic addition to this 75 and i will be giving it a whirl this coming wednesday at our local legacy tourney.

    is infest > pyroclasm? i don't think i caught the debate regarding this card choice in the previous thread.

  10. #10

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by n0mad View Post
    i am really liking the proactive idea of inquisition over the reactive nature of pyroblast/reb. the whole idea of this deck is to provoke situations that are difficult for your opponent to answer, so with that i think inquisition will be a fantastic addition to this 75 and i will be giving it a whirl this coming wednesday at our local legacy tourney.

    is infest > pyroclasm? i don't think i caught the debate regarding this card choice in the previous thread.
    Read my article from this week.

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by n0mad View Post
    i am really liking the proactive idea of inquisition over the reactive nature of pyroblast/reb. the whole idea of this deck is to provoke situations that are difficult for your opponent to answer, so with that i think inquisition will be a fantastic addition to this 75 and i will be giving it a whirl this coming wednesday at our local legacy tourney.

    is infest > pyroclasm? i don't think i caught the debate regarding this card choice in the previous thread.
    basically, pyroclasm can't kill mother of runes + hate bear. Infest can.
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  12. #12

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    2 Echoing Truth
    1 Wipeaway
    1 Infest
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Grapeshot
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Ill-Gotten Gains
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Past in Flames
    Now that you've mentioned Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, is Infest really an upgrade from Silent Departure as Wish target? I mean with Thalia in play, you should be holding rituals to successfully cast Infest, because it rarely happens that you have access to 4 lands. It's interesting to see this deck can bring in Inquisitions post-board but if Thalia hits the board, wasting rituals on a hatebear seems like it's not a great idea.
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  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by death View Post
    Now that you've mentioned Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, is Infest really an upgrade from Silent Departure as Wish target? I mean with Thalia in play, you should be holding rituals to successfully cast Infest, because it rarely happens that you have access to 4 lands. It's interesting to see this deck can bring in Inquisitions post-board but if Thalia hits the board, wasting rituals on a hatebear seems like it's not a great idea.
    I just feel as if we're beginning to beat a dead horse at this point.

    Infest deals with Mother of Ruins and a hatebear. It's better than straight up losing the game. In my testing yesterday I was in two positions where Infest straight up won me the game, it was good.

  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Inquisition is an interesting card, the main reason it's in there is for HATEBEARS people, keep dreaming about stripping FoW from their hand. The card is brought in in matchups where the opponent lacks FoW, so it's a strict upgrade to duress considering it nabs hatebears in hand while duress doesn't along with chant still being abyssmal against nonblue decks typically. I never really liked pyroblast that much, and proactive disruption beats reactive in combo.

    You can either run infest or virtue's ruin, but virtue's ruin doesn't kill scavenging ooze, which is sometimes relevant as them untapping with ooze usually turns off PiF and IGG.

    On doomsday, the deck is fundamentally slower than TES but in exchange you get a somewhat better manabase with basic(s) and you can grind out blue decks very well with sensei's top, which is essentially a duress as well as a great card filter because if the opponent doesn't force top, you will find a duress with top barring some really god awful topdecks with top + fetchlands.

    Dark ritual into infest seems fine. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is just losing to thalia and probably knight of the reliquary beating you down. The only other way to play through thalia requires several turns of setting up your artifact mana, making it susceptible to qasali pridemage. I'd prefer not to play through a thalia with a deck not named spiral tide.
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  15. #15
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    While it doesn't take Force, Inquisition can sometimes take their only card to pitch to Force, creating the occasional effective 2-for-1.

    In related news, I just placed an order last night for 1 Infest, 4 Inquisition of Kozilek, and 20 Unglued Goblin tokens. (I'll be retiring my Scars Goblin tokens, which have served well.)
    "I'm willing to imagine a TES where Past in Flames replaces Ill-Gotten Gains entirely, and we just don't play Diminishing Returns." - me, 29/09/2011
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  16. #16
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Ritual View Post
    Inquisition is an interesting card, the main reason it's in there is for HATEBEARS people, keep dreaming about stripping FoW from their hand. The card is brought in in matchups where the opponent lacks FoW, so it's a strict upgrade to duress considering it nabs hatebears in hand while duress doesn't along with chant still being abyssmal against nonblue decks typically. I never really liked pyroblast that much, and proactive disruption beats reactive in combo.

    You can either run infest or virtue's ruin, but virtue's ruin doesn't kill scavenging ooze, which is sometimes relevant as them untapping with ooze usually turns off PiF and IGG.

    On doomsday, the deck is fundamentally slower than TES but in exchange you get a somewhat better manabase with basic(s) and you can grind out blue decks very well with sensei's top, which is essentially a duress as well as a great card filter because if the opponent doesn't force top, you will find a duress with top barring some really god awful topdecks with top + fetchlands.

    Dark ritual into infest seems fine. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is just losing to thalia and probably knight of the reliquary beating you down. The only other way to play through thalia requires several turns of setting up your artifact mana, making it susceptible to qasali pridemage. I'd prefer not to play through a thalia with a deck not named spiral tide.
    Maybe I just can't math but... Dark Ritual for Infest seems really difficult to accomplish?

    Example:
    *Board state* Opponent has Thalia and Mother of Runes.
    We have to have... 3 Lands and a Dark Ritual and Infest to kill two guys? Dark rit +1 Infest + 1 (Thalia)

    is that the best we have? o.O

  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I like how every time you've made a new TES thread, the same bullshit from the last thread resets and starts all over again.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the core of this deck hasn't changed in like 3-4 years, and people need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just conform to it, it works.

    We play TES because we are rock n' roll, not teen idols like ANT players, nor do we like to talk about how deep and sentimental bluegrass is, and how you really have to give the obscure and traditional artists instead of the mainstream bluegrass peeps like the Doomsday players do. And we definitely don't like classical music like those lame and boring High Tide players. Basically what I'm saying is that TES likes to party, the rest of the storm decks are boring and lame.

    Lastly, try new ideas instead of rehashing old and dead topics like Personal Tutor and that kind of shit.
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  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    The only card Inquisition doesn't hit in this format that TES cares about is Force of Will. There's already 8 maindeck cards devoted to beating Force of Will. I think the extra card devoted to beating Gaddock Teeg and the new enemy in Thalia is more important.
    Lot of time I don't post...
    I've read the report.
    That happened to me too. I couldn't be lieve it. Loosing to U/W decks.
    Related to inquisition, I dont agree because of it either can't stop Mind break trap. I just simply prefer T.Seize.(maybe in contradiction...)
    Related to the list. I died just once to A.N. and was because It shown the other A.N. therefore I play only 1 A.N. from now on. Sorry but I'm programmer.That is also the reason of playing 4 crhome mox remember! 9 Threads are enough not counting Tendrils.
    My other slot is 1 preordain. Not the best card however you are in contradiction when you side out I.T for 2nd and third games, in this case I use the Perfect Card To Side Out tha is .. preordain!
    I also tested PiF main deck but didn't like.
    I still prefer the pyroblast set but I'm testing the idea of adding even more Chant effects, (I'm evaluating the possibility of adding Suppression I've finished to evaluate it I decidily I'm not going to play it, I'll try first more 1 cost Chan effects by the moment...)To simply stop them from playing anything.
    Infest is too espensive in my opinion to play it.

    Ideas, Suggestions, Onions, any Onion?

  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by lorddotm View Post
    I like how every time you've made a new TES thread, the same bullshit from the last thread resets and starts all over again.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the core of this deck hasn't changed in like 3-4 years, and people need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just conform to it, it works.

    We play TES because we are rock n' roll, not teen idols like ANT players, nor do we like to talk about how deep and sentimental bluegrass is, and how you really have to give the obscure and traditional artists instead of the mainstream bluegrass peeps like the Doomsday players do. And we definitely don't like classical music like those lame and boring High Tide players. Basically what I'm saying is that TES likes to party, the rest of the storm decks are boring and lame.

    Lastly, try new ideas instead of rehashing old and dead topics like Personal Tutor and that kind of shit.
    I'm playing with a Spanish foil Infest (forcibly). And have 3/4 foil Inquisitions of Kozilek on their way.

    What a wonderful day.

    I'll be rocking the setup for SCG Des Moines.

    On a more serious note, I like IoK because it proactively takes care of these cards (and doesn't create awkward situations with Pyroblast and LED or when you need an extra land to cast it):

    Stoneforge Mystic, Snapcaster Mage, Gaddock Teeg, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Ethersworn Canonist, etc.

    Taking a SFM from UW is a pretty sick play. Turns them into a really bad Landstill deck.
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    Strange as it may seem, this deck seems like the best place for Ruhan of the Fomori. A 7/7 with the right equipment will end games nightmarishly quick, and it comes with the perk of being blue to pitch to Force of Will if you draw into extra copies. And it wouldn't be too hard to protect him in counter-heavy build.
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  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I've always preferred Thoughtseize/Inquisition to Duress game 2-3. But, Duress is considerably better against U, or more so FoW. I'd feel more comfortable with a 1-3 split between Duress and Inquisition in the side. Sometimes Burning Wish into Duress is a critical play..

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