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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #8601

  2. #8602

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    New TES Matchup Battles - Death's Shadow

    https://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup...deaths-shadow/

    Thanks for reading!

    - Alex Poling

  3. #8603

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    New Infernal Tutoring, featuring Landon Sworts!


    http://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-18/

  4. #8604
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    well guys, It finally happened. GP is banned.

    I really don't know if I am happy or not with this... I just was winning too much with this deck in legacy...
    I mean GP just makes the deck better - no doubt - but also makes Grixis worse or even not a viable option and I wonder how the meta will develop from now on.

    We'll likely see again those Nimbles and stifles around and those Stoneforge and maybe Standstills!

    Now My main concern is:
    will we still face hate from sevaral angles or not? I believe this is the main question we all TES players must do because if we see just stifles, fluster and fows, then Silence is the way to go, otherwise TSeize will be the way to go... But I hate comparing TSeize to CTherapy - I think CTerapy is more like Silence as it is just a card that can handles several Fows/Flusters/Stifles with a single shot. and this is something that uniquely silence does.

    Lets start my thouthg process:

    a) I think we need a robust way to handle several FoWs / Fluster post/pre side
    - this means CTherapy OR Silence
    - If we opt for CTherapy we need then full discard - maybe 3 CT 3Duress 2TSeize can be an option OR 2 CT 4Duress 2TSeize. But I just love too much CT
    - If we opt for Silence we can just play 4 Duress 4 Silence and thats it, but we loose EtW synergy.

    b) We can just simply to not to play neither of these cards - means 4 Duress 4 TSeize BUT then we just will need to hit as many times as fluster/FoW/Stifle opp. has in hand. and we again will loose to a predictable meta of snares/pierces/stifles- sure maybe I am anticipating too much.

    c) we loose the TryForce, but do we really want to loose EtW+CT synergy? I think that IF we see Stoneforge decks again - likely - we should not take out this card from our 60.

    d) do we still want EtW main ? I do and I think you all do.

    I believe we are in a position like back in June 2012 - Example of staple decklist: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=8590&iddeck=62693


    well Having in mind all these considerations (sure there are more...) I just propose the following TES Post GP:


    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    [
    2 Ad Nauseam
    1 Empty the Warrens
    ]
    OR
    [
    1 Ad Nauseam
    2 Empty the Warrens
    ]

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual

    [
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Duress
    ]
    OR
    [
    3 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress
    2 Thoughtseize
    ]

    4 Burning Wish
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Ponder
    4 Rite of Flame

    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island

    //Sideboard
    SB: 4 Echoing Truth
    SB: 1 Bribery / TP
    SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 Past In Flames
    SB: 1 Days Undoing
    SB: 1 Shattering Spree
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Thoughtseize

    +Chain Of Vapor
    +EtW
    +Xantid, CoF, surgical, swamp, bayou...?


    NOTES:
    If you remember back those era - 2nd AN was an staple and needed evil - we don't want to run into cantrips - we just need threats - maybe a 2nd EtW in base can be a solution also.
    13 lands 4 CM is fine for me - now that I am running DU - this was my last development, I am perfectly fine.

    @Lem, FFortune, wonderPreaux, bahamut and all OldStormers, what are your thoughts?

    I am quite enthusiastic with this new era... these bans are in deed good to legacy...
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  5. #8605

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I disagree, banning Deathrite Shaman and Gitaxian Probe means Reanimator will be tier 1 and Storm will have to face a faster combo deck and the loss of Gitaxian Probe. I don't believe we will need to return to 3 colors, the 4th Chrome Mox, 14th land and 8 discard are more or less automatic.

    I think 4 Duress, 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Cabal Therapy should be fine.

  6. #8606

    Re: Probe Ban

    I guess, since Probe was always around when I've been playing, I'll submit to being gainsaid by the more experienced players, but I think this isn't that bad. Also, I'm gonna talk about ANT a bit too, since the ban effects both decks that I play, Storm players probably read both these threads, and I don't want to have to double post about how the sky isn't falling for either deck.

    I've been playing 16 cantrip ANT a lot lately, and loving it, so I don't really understand the problem people have playing Preordains now. The card is really good for what ANT wants to do, I'll just use the slots freed up by Probe for all the flex slots people skimped on Preordains for (things like the 15 land, 7th discard spell etc. - also Rain of Filth seems even better as the 9th rit since it now has a unique role of Threshold booster). For TES, I think this is much the same, you no longer have quite as much motive or opportunity for greedy deckbuilding, so just do a less greedy build. Run that 13th land if you were cutting it, run that 7th discard, 4th Wish w/e. I think the 4th Chrome Mox might be a thing in TES too, and I'll explain that in more depth a bit further down.

    re: Discards spells
    I'm going to start testing with a 3/2/2 split of Duress, Thoughtseize, and Cabal Therapy. This probably isn't ground-breaking or ingenious to anyone, it's probably the obvious way of addressing the lack of peeks for Therapy while still retaining the benefit of having Therapy in the 75. Still, I'm fine being at the "level 1" thinking here, I'm not going to pretend I'll have the hard-reads to make 3+ Therapy work, nor have I forgotten IoK can't snipe Force of Will.

    re: Colors
    I think green is a good option for exploring the new meta. Miracles and SnT didn't get any worse, so packing a couple Decay/Swarm for either Storm deck seems like a good exploratory option. That said, though, I think Wasteland will be even more relevant and played in the format, since there in no longer the ubiquitous DRS to bail out decks, so I would probably be sideboarding my green sources and running a robust basic lineup in ANT and the basic Swamp in TES (idk about the Island, though, as I think it's not as great in TES and very unattractive when running green)

    re: WHY PLAY TES OVER ANT
    I think, among all the dynamics a Probe ban represents, the biggest thing I see it doing is really defining straightforwardly the inflection points that make TES different to ANT. The line has blurred a lot these last couple years, and I think an inexperienced player would have a really hard time understanding that the decks are basically about rearranging what the primary, secondary, and tertiary approaches to winning the game are, even though there's nothing one deck does that the other couldn't. Now, with Probe gone, and the velocity afforded to ANT being hindered more due to the loss off Storm count and Threshold that Probe represented, the difference in what makes a Rite of Flame meaningful compared to Cabal Ritual is much larger. I think the identity of TES versus ANT has shifted more towards "This deck can win turn 2, and this deck doesn't". That'll shine in all the hatebear matchups where ANT has to nut draw to race the hatebear, but we have to worry about drawing Chrome Mox against control and so on and so forth. I think the best TES deck will be the one that most effectively abuses the volatility and explosiveness that makes up for what will probably be the clockwork T3 of ANT.

  7. #8607

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I disagree, banning Deathrite Shaman and Gitaxian Probe means Reanimator will be tier 1 and Storm will have to face a faster combo deck and the loss of Gitaxian Probe.
    THIS. Exactly THIS. Headed over to the RB Griselbee camp. I'll see you guys when the dust settles and hopefully the mongeese aren't still standing.

    I have 11 days until Worcester, no time to tinker and test. T1 windmill slam some fatties GOOO!

    On a constructive note: Let's assume that RUG will be back. Why are we suggesting a Gem Mine/ 4 fetch non basic mana base against stifles AND wasteland which gets stronger without the best Mana dork around.

  8. #8608
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Most depends on where the meta moves, but therapy seems pretty bad with us loosing 4/7 peak effects at the same time the meta is shaken up to the point of dredge, reanimator, loam, Canadian, SnT, DnT, etc all popping up again for a while. Thoughtseize is just much more reliable at this point.

    This has also influence on the matter of EtW, the number of discard needed, the landcount, speed overall and more. The 14th land is as reasonable now as the 8th discard. Without Probe there is no Triforce left, Therapy becomes much more of a gamble, the deck gets slower and free stormcount is removed, which all put giant question marks behind EtW itself. I don't know if the card got better due to the removal of DRS as annoying blocker & accelerator or worse due to the loss of the named speed and free storm.

    Depending on how fancy you are experimenting, you can start off with +1 mox, +1 land, +1 discard and +1 EtW. Personally, I think I will parts way with Therapy as well as the MD EtW for good in order to run 4 Thoughtseize.

    I will durdle with something like this in the next days:

    4 Burning Wish
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Duress
    1 Ad Nauseam

    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Diamond
    4 Cystal Vein
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Island
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  9. #8609
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    @FFortune:

    well so long time elapsed since I didn't face UB Reanimator that didn't have this in mind... so you are right. I really hated that math up and DRS really kept those at bay... snif...
    I'll start with 2/3 SE in side.

    I think that likely a split of 4/2/2 is a good starting poing of discard - I'll try that! but remember! duress/TSeize is not CTherapy - CT is such a strong effect... 6 peek effects are fine for 2 CT... I'll see if I need to increment those.

    I wonder also if 1 single Reanimate in side could help me vs those incoming reanimators... opinions?

    What do you exactly mean with: "I don't believe we will need to return to 3 colors"

    @wonderPreaux: Nice points! I can't disagree on anything... I'll start with 3 colors and keeping a Swamp in side - nothing else. ETruth/CoV could be enough as I don't consider Miracles a real deck.

    @onemancannon: I do know wastelands/Rishadans will raise in numbers but those has never been a problem for me I just prefer redundancy of mana availability than beeing stock with an island which does nothing. but hey that's me! run the manabase that suits better for you, from my stock list unchanged in years I just added 4th gemstone and there will be 1 swamp in my side also.

    @Lem: well, I saw that list and it has 0 sense to me by several reasons:
    1) unless you have LED OR Moxdiamond it 'll be harder for you to get hellbent soon - a needed requirement if you want to be fast.
    2) where is RoF? I understand the numbers behind but no RoF?
    3) you argue full TS and life lose to not to include EtW? statistics don't work that way man.
    Hey! maybe my The Dark Storm deck is a thing to have in mind try that instead! joke.

    Apart, the other day I tested against a sinkhole/tomsbtalker/pierces/stifles deck and really enjoyed the match up - I lost 2-1 but both looses were due to Toxic deluge from top deck. and DU won me 1 match up.

    Questions:
    2 AN / 1 EtW or 1 AN / 2 EtW ?

    EDIT: I've been always playing with 12 lands 3 CM, but I wonder if 14 lands 4 CM can be correct as I find them too many - and then swithc to a fetch mana base... maybe it is time to make that change...
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  10. #8610

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post


    2 AN / 1 EtW or 1 AN / 2 EtW ?
    That's going to be heavily dependent on where the meta settles and if it ends up being more fair or unfair, so it's a bit early to know that for sure.

  11. #8611
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    @Lem: well, I saw that list and it has 0 sense to me by several reasons:
    1) unless you have LED OR Moxdiamond it 'll be harder for you to get hellbent soon - a needed requirement if you want to be fast.
    2) where is RoF? I understand the numbers behind but no RoF?
    3) you argue full TS and life lose to not to include EtW? statistics don't work that way man.
    I don't get your 1) because it seems you miss the fact that we lost speed, deck compression as well as free information and free storm anyways. Daze, Stifle and wasteland will rise again and games are going to be slower anyways as you have to cast discard to see if the coast is clear. To me it makes no sense either in that context, if you opt to run with a light manabase and several EtWs (lacking the free stormcount of Probe) right into Daze + Stifle as a result of a predictable surge of classic tempo strategies.

    I replaced RoFs +1 mana with the +2 net mana of sol lands, which improve the board against Daze & Pierce, especially in the context of the already slower games mentioned.

    I don't run MB EtWs because its fucking miserable to flip 4cc cards to AN after you fought with fetches and Thoughtseize though counters. If you want to talk statistics, you should start comprehend lists and realize the DOUBLED amount of Artifact IMS and ridiculous low average cmc of that 60. You easily flip 20+ cards with just 13 life, lowering Ad Nauseam variance to new levels, reducing the odds to fizzle or having to pass the turn. The point against EtW is that you will face much more combo + Stifle matchups in the next weeks as well as a huge devaluing of the spell resulting from the speed loss suffered.
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  12. #8612
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    which all put giant question marks behind EtW itself. I don't know if the card got better due to the removal of DRS as annoying blocker & accelerator or worse due to the loss of the named speed and free storm.
    Intuitively I'd say making Goblins is likely to be really good now - DRS doesn't just block, it gains life. Most one drops, even if they're stronger in some ways are moreso strong aggressively, but nowhere near as good at playing defense, especially against an opponent going really wide on T1/T2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  13. #8613

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I agree that ad naseaum seems very good versus stifles and that empty seems worse without probes, against stifles and possibly batterskulls.
    However pif has also gained alot with the removal of DRS and it's good vs stifles.
    It's also a decent spell to AdN into, doubling any drawn rituals.
    Pif is way better tutor into, than to wish into.
    How about replacing MD empty with pif?

  14. #8614
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I don't get your 1) because it seems you miss the fact that we lost speed, deck compression as well as free information and free storm anyways. Daze, Stifle and wasteland will rise again and games are going to be slower anyways as you have to cast discard to see if the coast is clear. To me it makes no sense either in that context, if you opt to run with a light manabase and several EtWs (lacking the free stormcount of Probe) right into Daze + Stifle as a result of a predictable surge of classic tempo strategies.
    When I mean you loose speed by incrementing the land count to 19 (whoa 19!) I mean also you loose COMPLETELY the ability to just go off in 1st / 2nd turn. I just don't want to be a belcher deck, but I want a deck that CAN behaves like a belcher deck when it needs to - this is the purpose of TES - you can win on 2nd turn by just noting that Opp just does not play blue (aka D&T which will raise also) or has FoW but not blue. that design assumes you will not able to win in 1st turn and neither 2nd turn. I just want to avoid that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I replaced RoFs +1 mana with the +2 net mana of sol lands, which improve the board against Daze & Pierce, especially in the context of the already slower games mentioned.
    Well, you can play 1 RoF and the 2nd one the same turn, this is something you cannot do with SolLands unless you play Exploration. this is sad but true.
    well in the context of daze and pierce SolLands are better likely than RoF - why you just don't try also Lake of the Dead?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I don't run MB EtWs because its fucking miserable to flip 4cc cards to AN after you fought with fetches and Thoughtseize though counters. If you want to talk statistics, you should start comprehend lists and realize the DOUBLED amount of Artifact IMS and ridiculous low average cmc of that 60. You easily flip 20+ cards with just 13 life, lowering Ad Nauseam variance to new levels, reducing the odds to fizzle or having to pass the turn. The point against EtW is that you will face much more combo + Stifle matchups in the next weeks as well as a huge devaluing of the spell resulting from the speed loss suffered.
    I'll tell you an example of what I mean:

    you play a deck (deck a) with 60 cards and among them 1 card costs 10 mana, rest cost 1 mana
    you play a deck (deck b) with 60 cards and among them 2 card costs 5 mana each, rest cost 1 mana.

    well, deck a and b have exact the same average mana curve. I recognize this was one of the things that fucked me the most when I had to play back in 2012 2 AN in my deck (I played instead 1 preordain, 1 Grim Tutor and shit like this - but that was not correct).

    Again EtW is good vs Tempo Decks, not bad, even if they play 4 stifles. (plus fluster from side.)

    as always, you and me just go in diff directions and trying to expose arguments to convice each other just will not work... and I and you do know that your next try will be Carpet of Flawers main. why don't we just try to adapt slightly the deck to a non GP era? just 3/5 cards in base and some in side? I just not ask for more...


    EDIT: JackaBo: PiF base will not work in TES, we need to focuse in 1 engine - AN. Sure you can add PiF but you'll need to add then CRits and then dilute the main strategy of the TES engine. I don't think it is the way, but I can't guarranty it is the opposite. I remember in other eras PiF was tested. but I believe it was also an error.
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  15. #8615
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    Intuitively I'd say making Goblins is likely to be really good now - DRS doesn't just block, it gains life. Most one drops, even if they're stronger in some ways are moreso strong aggressively, but nowhere near as good at playing defense, especially against an opponent going really wide on T1/T2.
    I think that not having free peak and stormcount is hurting EtW and that blind EtW has now a much higher chance to be greeted by Stifle, Daze or a combo deck sitting across than during the time ~23% of the metagame was playing aggro-control with discard.

    It's just the expected rise of combo and tempo in the current meta uproar which make me want to test a more conservative approach with less of the guessing game Therapy and EtW require to some extend. As said, it's a test. We'll know more when the dust settled.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    I agree that ad naseaum seems very good versus stifles and that empty seems worse without probes, against stifles and possibly batterskulls.
    However pif has also gained alot with the removal of DRS and it's good vs stifles.
    It's also a decent spell to AdN into, doubling any drawn rituals.
    Pif is way better tutor into, than to wish into.
    How about replacing MD empty with pif?
    I think that classic Prosak style Brainstorm+Ponder+Preordain AnT lists are in a really good spot right now with Daze+Stifle having room for a comeback. They gained a lot more from the bans than TES. I am no fan of PIF being combined with bad Rituals like RoF, fastmana like Chrome Mox and a more fragile manabase than AnT. To include PIF would mean stocking up the amount of rituals, by prolly adding 2 Cabal Rituals. However, if i would be ok with raising the average cmc while removing the focus from EtW, going straight AnT seems to be much easier.
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  16. #8616
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    When I mean you loose speed by incrementing the land count to 19 (whoa 19!) I mean also you loose COMPLETELY the ability to just go off in 1st / 2nd turn. I just don't want to be a belcher deck, but I want a deck that CAN behaves like a belcher deck when it needs to - this is the purpose of TES - you can win on 2nd turn by just noting that Opp just does not play blue (aka D&T which will raise also) or has FoW but not blue. that design assumes you will not able to win in 1st turn and neither 2nd turn. I just want to avoid that.
    Because i am preparing for the games I have to cast Discard or play around Daze, which means games going to turn 2 or 3 That also means getting to drop more lands if needed or throwing lands into a Mox/Diamond you hold or cantrip into. Nothing stops you from feeding a land to a Mox, drop Sol Land, Petal and LED to tutor for Ad Nauseam, or feed a sol land to Mox, cast Brainstorm, fetch, cast Ponder to follow up with a T2 Sol Land to have 4 mana and access to 5 colors ON THE FIELD against Daze & Pierce. I fear you underestimate how ponder, Brainstorm, Mox diamond and LED can solve the issue of bricking due to lands and how many lands your can drop/dump if you don't tie yourself to the T1 combo idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Well, you can play 1 RoF and the 2nd one the same turn, this is something you cannot do with SolLands unless you play Exploration. this is sad but true.
    No, but you can feed them to Mox, Diamond or just drop them turn 2 after you casted your T1 Thoughtseize and passed. Again, I am not questioning the value of quick mana acceleration which RoF provides for T1/T2 combos, but I guess that it might be less relevant without free ways to check for FoWs (or the oppoenents deck in general), free stormcount and us suddenly no longer playing a 56 card deck aka less redundancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    well in the context of daze and pierce SolLands are better likely than RoF - why you just don't try also Lake of the Dead?
    I think there is a land destroying other nonbasic lands which would gladly trade 1-for-2 with a Lake

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    I'll tell you an example of what I mean:

    you play a deck (deck a) with 60 cards and among them 1 card costs 10 mana, rest cost 1 mana
    you play a deck (deck b) with 60 cards and among them 2 card costs 5 mana each, rest cost 1 mana.

    well, deck a and b have exact the same average mana curve. I recognize this was one of the things that fucked me the most when I had to play back in 2012 2 AN in my deck (I played instead 1 preordain, 1 Grim Tutor and shit like this - but that was not correct).
    But i am not replacing 10cc flips with two 4cc flips like EtW, but remove every flip damage greater than 2 and replace 1cc accelerators with 0cc ones in order to minimize issues you would potentially face when you have to cast Thoughtseize against a deck like Delver. You cant let fetches, delver, bolt & Thoughtseize eat up your lifepoints and expect that an Ad Nauseam remains an option if you can't drop below 5 life without the sudden death of flipping EtW. All i am trying is mitigating the damage of running Thoughtseize in a now inevitably slower 60 card deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Again EtW is good vs Tempo Decks, not bad, even if they play 4 stifles. (plus fluster from side.)
    On the other hand, the statistics of TES vs RUG Delver are far from great overall, especially on the draw. Sure, goblins are great if landed, but getting there against Stifle/Fluster/Daze/FoW is far from easy. In addition the blind move for EtW can be very risky with a potential surge of combo decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Why don't we just try to adapt slightly the deck to a non GP era? just 3/5 cards in base and some in side? I just not ask for more...
    Because you ask to revert the deck back to the days prior to Delver, TNN, Snapcaster, Thalia, Leovold, Griselbrand, etc. While everyone else keeps playing tech/cards released in these 7 years since Probes printing. We need a modern day solution, not just dig up a 2011 list and think it works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  17. #8617

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I thoroughly tested TES, say that three times fast, last night and I can say you should cut Cabal Therapy completely: without Gitaxian Probe you can't rely on Cabal Therapy as a reliable discard spell at all. I think we're better off with 4 Duress and 3 Thoughtseize, 14th land and 4th Chrome Mox with an open flex slot.

    I don't see a reason to cut MD Empty the Warrens, from what I've seen a lot of people are playing U/W Blade with Snapcaster Mages all over the place. I'm sure RUG Canadian and Stifle are more than viable, but that just means the 3xEmpty the Warrens SBs need to be scrapped. T2 Empty the Warrens behind T1 discard is a HUGE part of what makes this deck what it is and our AN flips are only getting better thanks to 4th Mox and 14th land regardless.

    I'll post the list I'm working on shortly.

  18. #8618
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I thoroughly tested TES, say that three times fast, last night and I can say you should cut Cabal Therapy completely: without Gitaxian Probe you can't rely on Cabal Therapy as a reliable discard spell at all. I think we're better off with 4 Duress and 3 Thoughtseize, 14th land and 4th Chrome Mox with an open flex slot.

    I don't see a reason to cut MD Empty the Warrens, from what I've seen a lot of people are playing U/W Blade with Snapcaster Mages all over the place. I'm sure RUG Canadian and Stifle are more than viable, but that just means the 3xEmpty the Warrens SBs need to be scrapped. T2 Empty the Warrens behind T1 discard is a HUGE part of what makes this deck what it is and our AN flips are only getting better thanks to 4th Mox and 14th land regardless.

    I'll post the list I'm working on shortly.
    Gladly taking all input. You felt like 7 discard is still enough?
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  19. #8619

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I thoroughly tested TES, say that three times fast, last night and I can say you should cut Cabal Therapy completely: without Gitaxian Probe you can't rely on Cabal Therapy as a reliable discard spell at all. I think we're better off with 4 Duress and 3 Thoughtseize, 14th land and 4th Chrome Mox with an open flex slot.

    I don't see a reason to cut MD Empty the Warrens, from what I've seen a lot of people are playing U/W Blade with Snapcaster Mages all over the place. I'm sure RUG Canadian and Stifle are more than viable, but that just means the 3xEmpty the Warrens SBs need to be scrapped. T2 Empty the Warrens behind T1 discard is a HUGE part of what makes this deck what it is and our AN flips are only getting better thanks to 4th Mox and 14th land regardless.

    I'll post the list I'm working on shortly.
    I think a pair of Cabal Ritual in your flex slot and taking the place of 4th Chrome Mox may be worth a look. Better PiF loops and not drawing multiple Chromes as often could be pretty good. IDK that you should jettison Therapy entirely, it's a way to generate card advantage and force spells to be played in response, upping the Storm count. With Wishes too, it could at least be justified as a sideboard slot.

  20. #8620

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Gladly taking all input. You felt like 7 discard is still enough?

    7 disruption was the standard before Gitaxian Probe, I'm testing a couple of other choices like the 15th land, 9th cantrip, 9th ritual etc. I might go back to the 8th discard if for no other reason there isn't a better card for the slot, and it's probably the best possible choice vs Reanimator since you have to play the control role.

    I can give you another reason not to cut MD Empty the Warrens, with UW Blade coming back it's inevitable we're going to see Meddling Mage and that means you'll either get locked out of your kill condition or have to SB in your only Empty the Warrens not to.

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