[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Bryant Cook]

If you have no problems with 12 lands, then why are you crying about Stifle and land density?

No one ever suggested to run 12 lands including badlands in a metagame with resurging numbers of tempo decks, so why try to take various 14-land concepts totally out of context in terms of lands total and metagame? What's next in line? Running 10 fetches + 2 duals and then bitching about fetchlands being bad because you run out of targets?

You know Peter, I've been thinking. With all of these Stifles and Wastelands, it might be correct to go back to 12 gold lands and Silences. Maybe an Autumn's Veil or two? I can't remember who suggested it, but it seemed like a great idea.

[Lemnear]

You know Peter, I've been thinking. With all of these Stifles and Wastelands, it might be correct to go back to 12 gold lands and Silences. Maybe an Autumn's Veil or two? I can't remember who suggested it, but it seemed like a great idea.

Only if we run a 3/3/3 split of Silence/Chant/Veil

[Bryant Cook]

Only if we run a 3/3/3 split of Silence/Chant/Veil

Well, we only play six discard spells at the moment. If we do that, it cuts into our Gitaxian Probes - which are less useful without Cabal Therapy...

[Pelikanudo]

If you have no problems with 12 lands, then why are you crying about Stifle and land density?

No one ever suggested to run 12 lands including badlands in a metagame with resurging numbers of tempo decks, so why try to take various 14-land concepts totally out of context in terms of lands total and metagame? What's next in line? Running 10 fetches + 2 duals and then bitching about fetchlands being bad because you run out of targets?

Given the scenario for example of Mr. B. latest build he plays total 13 lands among them 8 fetches.
I currently play 12 lands plus 1 in side among them only 4 fetchlands - exactly half. the land in side is bayou which of course i side in vs agrodecks- this setting hasnt changed for soo long for me...
I was regretting playing 12 lands and among them 8 fetches , 1 badlands and tropical in side in the last torunament, I really dont know why i even tryed this and was wrong...
i also remember playing the typical 8fetches 2sea2volanic 1 swamp with 61 cards in deck - was wrong also.

What i mean is that the setting i am currently playing is the one i've been the most confortable with for soooo long - you know 3c.m. 7 discards, etc... and 12 lands.
i just cannot conceive in TES just fetchjing for an island with 13 lands 8fetches... maybe a swamp - but of course not an island - i believe it is the worst card you can play in TES, i believe i have a different manner to confront Stifle_wasteland decks i just prefer to have just the lands whch produce the most polivalent mana I mean lto be able to play a ponder thereapy or uress and win with 1 land and a petal or even with no lands... i dont lie - i won matchsup like this - but fething island just do nothing just to play shitty ponder AND avoid paying mana from 1 daze? and youll need B/R apart of island in order to win... other story is ANT with 15 lands where in here you really DO expect to land 2-3 lands - 2 lands difference is a matter.

my next try wuld be-4th gemstone +3rd u.sea and evaluate... given that i dont want to:
a) play more than 4 fetches
b) AND not less than 8 total green producers
c) AND no more than 7discard/3c.m./1EtW/4B.W.
d) avoid the sceneario Of: have in hand uniquely 1 gemstone as land, then ponder for a need of a 2nd land and find another gemstone. Exactly and uniquely this one. the rest do not mind like 2 gemstone in hand or sea for ponder and find gemstonet, etc, etc etc.

EDIT: @Mr. B and Lem. and related to what those funny messages: Please could you review my footer: Yes, I am advanced and you know it... 10 more pages and just shut up...

[thefringthing]

Had a spot tonight with a Mother of Runes protecting a Phyrexian Revoker where Meltdown would have gotten the job done but By Force couldn't. I was pretty firmly in the By Force camp, but since Death & Taxes is my most common matchup, I think I'll switch over to Meltdown for now. At a GP I think I would probably still play By Force.

Tried out Condemn//Oblivion also. Seemed fine, probably good if you want to have a way to get rid of Leyline of Sanctity. I probably won't stick with it just because no one has put a Leyline of Sanctity on the battlefield against me in years.

[Ronald Deuce]

Given the scenario for example of Mr. B. latest build he plays total 13 lands among them 8 fetches.
I currently play 12 lands plus 1 in side among them only 4 fetchlands - exactly half. the land in side is bayou which of course i side in vs agrodecks- this setting hasnt changed for soo long for me...
I was regretting playing 12 lands and among them 8 fetches , 1 badlands and tropical in side in the last torunament, I really dont know why i even tryed this and was wrong...
i also remember playing the typical 8fetches 2sea2volanic 1 swamp with 61 cards in deck - was wrong also.

I'm not trying to be a butt-ass, but I genuinely don't understand about half of this.

Why would you only play four fetches if you're running (presumably) quad-Brainstorm? Forgive me if I'm newbing hard, but I don't get it.

[Final Fortune]

Had a spot tonight with a Mother of Runes protecting a Phyrexian Revoker where Meltdown would have gotten the job done but By Force couldn't. I was pretty firmly in the By Force camp, but since Death & Taxes is my most common matchup, I think I'll switch over to Meltdown for now. At a GP I think I would probably still play By Force.

Tried out Condemn//Oblivion also. Seemed fine, probably good if you want to have a way to get rid of Leyline of Sanctity. I probably won't stick with it just because no one has put a Leyline of Sanctity on the battlefield against me in years.

Isn't that what Massacre is for, or did he not have a Plains on the board?

Consign/Oblivion is a better card to SB in than Void Snare and Imprints for two colors ... I'm definitely going to try those out over Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall and Abrase this weekend but at least one seems like a SB staple to me. Nice find.

[Dr_D]

Isn't that what Massacre is for, or did he not have a Plains on the board?

Consign/Oblivion is a better card to SB in than Void Snare and Imprints for two colors ... I'm definitely going to try those out over Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall and Abrase this weekend but at least one seems like a SB staple to me. Nice find.

It's from one of Bryant's most recent MTGO lists.

[Lemnear]

EDIT: @Mr. B and Lem. and related to what those funny messages: Please could you review my footer: Yes, I am advanced and you know it... 10 more pages and just shut up...

Cool story, bro. I think, over the years pretty much every variation and merges between ANT and TES popped up here and there, like Wish+CR in either deck, white-splash in ANT, MB PIF+RoF, every combo of duress/thoughtseize/IoK/Therapy/etc and much more. We all are throwing lists and ideas (like Mox Diamonds, SolLands, etc) around and test here and there, but the important aspects are reasoning & metagame context.

I'm not trying to be a butt-ass, but I genuinely don't understand about half of this.

Why would you only play four fetches if you're running (presumably) quad-Brainstorm? Forgive me if I'm newbing hard, but I don't get it.

That's exactly the point where any discussion crosses a red line. Randomly set parameters like "i dont eant to run more than 4 fetches" without any reasoning behind. We do this for freaking YEARS now. I could host a 3h twitch show solely talking about relations/goals of several fetch/dual/basic configs in TES based on various metagame structures. We could stretch it further by expanding the topic to Shuffle-effects required for Ponder/Brainstorm. I could outline to which great effect you can manipulate the manaflow with Fetchlands, cantrips and both thinning out the deck ON DEMAND or just use them to build your manabase while being safe from Wastelands. All of this is apparently irrelevant, if you randomly set 4 fetches as the to-go

[Bryant Cook]

Isn't that what Massacre is for, or did he not have a Plains on the board?

Consign/Oblivion is a better card to SB in than Void Snare and Imprints for two colors ... I'm definitely going to try those out over Echoing Truth, Hurkyl's Recall and Abrase this weekend but at least one seems like a SB staple to me. Nice find.

I played one in a Sunday Legacy Challenge on mtgo, the problem is you can't side it in to deal with Chalices as you'll take 7dmg off of Ad Nauseam...

[thefringthing]

Isn't that what Massacre is for, or did he not have a Plains on the board?

He had a Flagstones and a Karakas and was sandbagging a Plains.

Yeah, I should note that Consign//Oblivion is not my tech. I saw Bryant try it and so I tried it too.

[LDX]

I could host a 3h twitch show solely talking about relations/goals of several fetch/dual/basic configs in TES based on various metagame structures. We could stretch it further by expanding the topic to Shuffle-effects required for Ponder/Brainstorm. I could outline to which great effect you can manipulate the manaflow with Fetchlands, cantrips and both thinning out the deck ON DEMAND or just use them to build your manabase while being safe from Wastelands.

I would watch that. Please be mean on stream.

[Final Fortune]

I played one in a Sunday Legacy Challenge on mtgo, the problem is you can't side it in to deal with Chalices as you'll take 7dmg off of Ad Nauseam...

I wasn't aware Ad Nauseam counts the combined manacost, but even if that prevents us from SBing it in it still seems like a SB card we should be running in the Meltdown slot(?) since it deals with Leyline of Sanctity, Chalice of the Void, Gaddok Teeg and Leovold, Emissary of Trest - that should free up a SB, I would think.

I found wishing for Consign and then being able to cast it without red mana compared to By Force significant vs Eldrazi.

[Lemnear]

I would watch that. Please be mean on stream.

I am not mean, i merely hate simplistic answers to complex problems

[CyrusCG]

Hey guys! My first article for theepicstorm.com just went live. I'm taking over The Infernal Tutoring Series and in this installment we go over different situations, or when to "jam" or not. Let me know what you think!

http://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-9-2/

[MangoPunch]

@Pelikanudo

Thanks for taking a look at the article even if you only got two lines in. I am still finding my voice as a magic writer, and hope to keep improving the content and quality of writing. It seems you guys do a lot of good theory crafting here, what types of articles would you be interested in reading?

[Final Fortune]

Hey guys! My first article for theepicstorm.com just went live. I'm taking over The Infernal Tutoring Series and in this installment we go over different situations, or when to "jam" or not. Let me know what you think!

http://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-9-2/

If you want to write a more effective article then you shouldn't tell the reader what the outcome of your decision was. The reader will already presume the outcome of your decision resulted in a loss by presenting the question to begin with, but confirming that by showing them the outcome only biases the reader into believing your decision was wrong (which isn't always necessarily the case) and discourages them from actually thinking about the question because the answer is already "apparent."

So in short, I think you should reconsider how you present information by only offering a scenario, asking the reader what he would do in that scenario, ask them why they would do that, tell them what you did, explain your reasoning for having done it and let them argue with you about whether or not that decision was the right choice and why/why not. Afterwards you can follow up on the last article with the actual outcome in your next article so people can see what happeneded after the issue was discussed as much as possible.

[Lemnear]

If you want to write a more effective article then you shouldn't tell the reader what the outcome of your decision was. The reader will already presume the outcome of your decision resulted in a loss by presenting the question to begin with, but confirming that by showing them the outcome only biases the reader into believing your decision was wrong (which isn't always necessarily the case) and discourages them from actually thinking about the question because the answer is already "apparent."

So in short, I think you should reconsider how you present information by only offering a scenario, asking the reader what he would do in that scenario, ask them why they would do that, tell them what you did, explain your reasoning for having done it and let them argue with you about whether or not that decision was the right choice and why/why not. Afterwards you can follow up on the last article with the actual outcome in your next article so people can see what happeneded after the issue was discussed as much as possible.

Great input. Haven't thought about that

[Bryant Cook]

If you want to write a more effective article then you shouldn't tell the reader what the outcome of your decision was. The reader will already presume the outcome of your decision resulted in a loss by presenting the question to begin with, but confirming that by showing them the outcome only biases the reader into believing your decision was wrong (which isn't always necessarily the case) and discourages them from actually thinking about the question because the answer is already "apparent."

So in short, I think you should reconsider how you present information by only offering a scenario, asking the reader what he would do in that scenario, ask them why they would do that, tell them what you did, explain your reasoning for having done it and let them argue with you about whether or not that decision was the right choice and why/why not. Afterwards you can follow up on the last article with the actual outcome in your next article so people can see what happeneded after the issue was discussed as much as possible.

You can choose not to believe me, but I told him this a few days ago.

I asked him not to do it in the future.

[Final Fortune]

You can choose not to believe me, but I told him this a few days ago.

I asked him not to do it in the future.

It's general knowledge from poker forums, as long as the point is made it should lead to better writing.