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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #8721

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I havent moved my stance on TES at all, I think most of the innovation you guys are talking about is either bad or things I've already done.

    From what I've gathered, people have started to figure out that Island and U/R Fetchlands are bad in a 3 color deck with 8 discard spells and that Underground Sea and Volcanic Island should be played 2x. Dimishinh Returns should replace Dark Petition in the SB because of Reanimator, Show&Tell and aggro and 3 SB Empty the Warrens is a given in a 4 Chrome Mox deck.

    I think Mox Opal is complete garbage and Simian Spirit Guide is the best of the worst accelerants if you want to cut the 8th discard, 14th land or 4th Chrome Mox. I'm indifferent on Hope of Ghirapur if you want more/different disruption, but personally I think sitting on Swamp and discard is enough.

    I don't like the second Empty the Warrens MD because I don't want to be stuck in Belcher mode, and the lone Cabal Ritual and Pre-Ordain just seem like sub-optimal filler for a deck that doesn't need it.

    My list is basically,

    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Empty the Warrens
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Duress
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Chrome Mox
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp

    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Grape Shot
    3 Empty the Warrens
    1 Diminishing Returns
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Telemin Performance
    1 Void Snare
    1 Massacre
    1 Pulverize
    4 Echoing Truth

    I've become really conservative with Storm lists, just because I have put in so much testing with different ideas and have always ended up at the exact same place in the end. I don't think MD tinkering is worth a damn, and the SB is general enough not to worry about it.

    It would take an unbanned Mind's Desire, Red Orim's Chant or a strictly better Storm engine, accelerant, cantrip discard or bounce for me to reconsider anything at this point. People just need to grind out games instead of experiment with their 75 IMO.

  2. #8722
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    People just need to grind out games instead of experiment with their 75 IMO.
    This is a good point. Counterargument though:
    If we can't discuss improving our 75, what are we doing on a forum dedicated to improving our 75?

  3. #8723

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    This is a good point. Counterargument though:
    If we can't discuss improving our 75, what are we doing on a forum dedicated to improving our 75?
    Now you know why I haven't been around much :) But in all seriousness, the thread could just as easily serve as a "what would you do" collection with sample hands and play lines if people wanted it to.

  4. #8724

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Now you know why I haven't been around much :) But in all seriousness, the thread could just as easily serve as a "what would you do" collection with sample hands and play lines if people wanted it to.
    Is actually telemin performance good? Maybe that’s a slot to discuss?

  5. #8725
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    @FFortune: Missed you really..., 100% on same page as you! yeah, we'll see which new deck raise or which new card is printed or if a heavy meta shift occurs to see if we can discuss again!

    @JackaBo: I would not go to a tournament withouth playing TP or Bribery in my side, those cards just make BW as good as IT card vs griselbrand decks and in case of TP vs lands/Storm. I prefer for example bribery for my taste.
    you'll note he plays also DR BUT not DP, likely for him is unnecesary having already those 2 threats+EtW, I - however - play all them! and sometimes DU even!
    It is all a matter of taste my friend.!
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  6. #8726

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Is actually telemin performance good? Maybe that’s a slot to discuss?
    Dark Petition is too slow and not flexible, you need cards in your SB that actually do something vs Griselbrand and give you real options in bad situations. Telemin Performance makes Burning Wish good in all of the match ups its bad in, and Diminishing Returns is a plan B for any deck that has either taxed you out of resources or you must race.

    Honestly unless you really want those HOGs for Miracles, I think full ETW, utility and bounce is a fine way to go. I havent changed a SB card in months and never felt as if I needed anything else vs control, I messed around with the Island and 2xBadland manabase a bit for aggro control but that is about it really.

    Edit: I also really dislike the current list on the TES website, only 4 Fetches for Island, Mox Opal is dead in hand quite often and the Wish SB is cold vs Lavinia.

  7. #8727

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    So if i get it right:
    - DP is a card that turns BW into 4cmc Tutor, thus increasing consistency versus decks where empty is bad
    - due to actually being 5cmc its also bad versus daze/pierce
    -due to spell mastery it’s bad vs RIP-type effects.

    So daze and pierce comes from tempo decks where empty is good, so that’s fine

    Versus thalia decks (who may run RIP) and chalice decks (who often runs leyline) DP is bad, Empty is mediocre but here DR shines since a new hand wont give them counterspells.

    Versus blue control decks DP seems better since either they can hard counter you or they cant.

    So the question is do you want a spell that’s good against DnT/chalice or Blue control.

    TP seems great g1 versus a bunch of decks then theres a risk if givning you a Tireless tracker, xantid swarm, arcane artisan. Still good odds versus Reanimator. Question is if it that’s enough for its inclusion.

  8. #8728

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    I havent changed a SB card in months and never felt as if I needed anything else vs control, I messed around with the Island and 2xBadland manabase a bit for aggro control but that is about it really.
    Honest question as i am intrigued by your confidence;
    Do you have any results backing your claims?
    The decklist sites I use seem to answer that question as "no".

  9. #8729

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    Honest question as i am intrigued by your confidence;
    Do you have any results backing your claims?
    The decklist sites I use seem to answer that question as "no".
    I'm 36 with a profession, wife and kids and live in Turkey, that pretty much relegates my Magic playing time to online with friends. I've played the deck for over ten years, you can read thru all of the old threads and take it for whatever it's worth to you.

    @JackaBo

    DP is ok vs Miracles and that is about it, Telemin Performance is amazing vs Show&Tell, Reanimator, Storm and Lands and Diminishing Returns is ok vs Show&Tell and Reanimator, good vs Storm and Lands, great vs aggro, prison and discard strategies and a Hail Marry vs Miracles if you should need it (if you expect random creatures from the SB just Diminishing Returns instead of Telemin Performance game 2 and they're playing with dead cards vs you now). The thing is, in my experience, if you can take the time to DP for Ad Nauseam vs Miracles then you can also take the time to Burning Wish -> Tendrils of Agony or Past in Flames as well so what problem is DP helping you with? Even when you want to win earlier vs Miracles than Wish -> Tendrils or PIF can manage, you typically risk it with ETW anyway.

    I just didn't get much mileage out of the card when I played it, and I haven't missed it since I cut it for other engines. I don't feel like I need to hedge vs Miracles, I can outplay that deck with what I have, but without Telemin Perforance/Diminishing Returns I just don't have the tools I need to end the game vs Show&Tell and Reanimator even when I do get to go off with Burning Wish and that's frustrating as all hell.

  10. #8730

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    More Legacy Storm on Magic: The Gathering Online! In case you still haven't, don't forget to subscribe to the YouTube channel, we are less than 50 subscriptions away from our sub-goal! 👾


    https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-leag...orts-02-12-19/

  11. #8731

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    How do we stand against the latest Legacy creation of Grixis Phoenix? Here's a breakdown:

    https://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup...rixis-phoenix/


    PS. Some of the examples were of older variations of the deck, but it's good to test and think about what other cards the opponent could be playing outside of stock lists.

  12. #8732

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring special guest MICHAEL CLIFFORD (CL1FFY81)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

    https://theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-26/

  13. #8733

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    There has been talk of innovation within TES lately and I think I may have something. I have not tested this option as in depth as the people at theepicstorm.com have but I have goldfished it several hundred times and I have had good results. I know this deck alteration has both benefits and drawbacks when compared to the established TES deck list and I know that some people with think that this deck idea is complete garbage and some may think it interesting. I love the game and I would like to try and contribute towards the Magic community. The following is an altered TES deck with a name that I think is appropriate “TEAS” (The Epic Artifact Storm). Please do not interpret this as an attack on TES, I am just trying to open the consideration to options.

    TEAS – The Epic Artifact Storm

    By: Daniel Worobec

    Main Deck

    //Core Cards
    1x Ad Nauseaum
    4x Burning Wish
    4x Infernal Tutor

    //Discards/Disruption
    4x Thoughtseize
    3x Duress

    //Cantrips/Information
    4x Urza’s Bauble
    4x Mishra’s Bauble

    //Mana Acceleration
    4x Dark Ritual
    3x Rite of Flame
    4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Mox Opal
    4x Chrome Mox

    //Land
    4x Badland
    4x Bloodstained Mire
    3x Vault of Whispers
    2x Swamp

    Side Board

    1x Tendrils of Agony
    2x Empty the Warrens
    1x Rite of Flame
    1x Past in Flames
    1x Brainspoil
    1x Dark Petition
    1x Duress
    1x Pulverize
    1x Shattering Spree
    1x Massacre
    1x Chain Lightning
    2x Hope of Ghirapur
    1x Fatal Push

    TEAS is very similar to TES but is more focused on using Ad Nauseam with a follow up Tendrils of Agony that using Empty the Warrens. TEAS uses 24 zero converted mana cost artifacts in the deck for a combination of fast mana, being able to get to a higher storm count with fewer mana and enables an efficient Ad Nauseam with a lower life loss, enabling you to draw more cards with less life.

    The total converted mana cost of TEAS, less an Ad Nauseam is 30 mana. This works out to drawing one card for every 0.5 life, so 19 life will draw you an average of 38 cards with one spell. After goldfishing TEAS 100 times and using Ad Nauseam 87 of those times, Ad Nauseam ended up using an average life cost of 5.55 life that was needed to bring the storm count to 10 for a Tendrils of Agony.

    I debated using one copy of Empty the Warrens in the main deck. The reasons I moved Empty the Warrens to the Side Board is that for one more mana you could cast an Ad Nauseam, a higher focus on winning with Ad Nauseam and a lesser life cost to Ad Nauseam. To win the game with Empty the Warrens you usually need an additional two turns of attacking; I have found that waiting a turn or two for an additional mana to cast Ad Nauseam was faster in winning the game. In my research I have found that there are more decks played that focus on using Tendrils of Agony to win over Empty the Warrens so TEAS focuses more on using Ad Nauseam followed by a Tendrils to win. Empty the Warrens also costs four life if turned up while resolving an Ad Nauseam; since TEAS uses cards with converted mana cost 0-2 mana, if an Empty the Warrens was added to the deck you would fear turning up a converted mana cost four card when you have low life. Having only converted mana cost 0-2 in the deck lets you maximize your Ad Nauseam when at low life without having to worry about turning up a card that will kill you. I chose not to use Empty the Warrens in the main deck of this list because I wanted to. If I had the choice to either add in an Empty the Warrens for an Ad Nauseam, I would choose the Ad Nauseam. You could use Empty the Warrens if you choose too, my deck list is still experimental.

    One of the benefits and drawbacks in TEAS is that there is not blue. Blue has better cantrips than Urza’s Bauble and Mishra’s Bauble but it is a third color and sometimes having a lesser amount of different colors in a deck may be better. Another drawback of not having blue cantrips is that you will have to mulligan more often when trying to get key cards. The use of artifact cantrips enable less life loss with an Ad Nauseam, increases storm count for less mana and can turn on Mox Opal better. Having zero converted mana cost artifacts in TEAS allows you to empty your hand fast to get to Hellbent for Infernal Tutor.

    On January 26, 2019, Bryant Cook used two copies of Mox Opal in his deck and said, “If I could find a way to play all four (Mox Opal) I would” in a video. I am not trying to speak for Bryant but TEAS may be a solution to adding four Mox Opals even though TEAS is quite different.

    Mox Opal has been very useful in experimenting with TEAS. In most games I usually have enough artifacts for metalcraft. With 23 other artifacts in TEAS and all being free to play, there is a 83.5% chance that you will have two or more non-Mox Opal artifacts in an opening hand of seven cards to turn on metalcraft.

    Some other drawbacks in TEAS when compared to TES are that it has less colored spells that can be imprinted on Chrome Mox. Excluding the Ad Nauseam, TEAS only has 18 colored spells in it and may not be enough to support four Chrome Mox in the deck. When experimenting with TEAS 100 times, I only used Past in Flames once (I may have used it more if I have had more previous experience playing it in TES). The low amount of instants and sorceries that can utilize Past in Flames may warrant it to not be used in TEAS’s main board and/or side board. The lack of instants and sorceries to be put into the graveyard also effects the potential of Dark Petition; spell mastery may not be turned on for the benefit of three black mana. Brainspoil may be a good alternative solution to Dark Petition despite costing one more mana. Brainspoil does not have to be played the same turn that Dark Petition needs to be played in to gain the three black mana. Brainspoil also gives an alternative option to destroy a creature if needed.

    There are only two copies of Empty the Warrens total in this deck list, this deck list focuses more on using Ad Nauseam with a Tendrils of Agony. If you feel it is better to add in more Empty the Warrens I would like to hear feedback on the outcome, if I were to take out two cards out of the side board I would take out Past in Flames and Dark Petition.

    Chain Lightning is used in the side board because it a sorcery and that it costs one. Alongside with Fatal Push they can be used to get rid of creatures that keep TEAS from working like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Sanctum Prelate, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Aegis of the Gods, Glowrider, Meddling Mage, Vryn Wingmare, Aven Mindcensor, Scab-Clan Berserker, Kambal, Consul of Allocation, Shalai, Voice of Plenty, Council of Absolution, Eidolon of Rhetoric and Lodestone Golem.

    [CARDS]Shattering Spree is good against [CARDS]Chalice of the Void. [CARDS]Pulverize and [CARDS]Massacre are proven cards. Another drawback for not having blue in TEAS is that blue bounce is not playable.

    After goldfishing TEAS 100 times, I did 20+ damage on an average of 3.24 turns. According to the definition on theepicstorm.com of ACT (Average Combo Turn), TEAS has an ACT of 2.86 turns. I think that if I were to play test TEAS more I would learn how to play it better and the ACT would be lower. I used Ad Nauseam and Tendrils of Agony as a win condition 87% of the time, Empty the Warrens as a win condition 12% of the time and a natural storm with Tendrils of Agony 1% of the time. I used at least one Duress and/or Thoughtseize before comboing off 44% of the time. When using an Ad Nauseam I used between 0 and 13 life with an average of using 5.55 life, I never ended up killing myself with an Ad Nauseam. I ended up doing no mulligans 73% of the time, mulliganed to six 18% of the time and mulliganed to five 9% of the time.
    Last edited by Daniel Worobec; 03-07-2019 at 04:59 PM.

  14. #8734

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    You probably want to look up the Diabolic Intent and Mox Opal lists from the SI thread, the archetype is more consistent when you stay in one color for Vault of Whispers - Rite of Flame and Burning Wish is costing you a turn it looks like.

  15. #8735

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Interesting stuff

  16. #8736

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm


  17. #8737

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    You probably want to look up the Diabolic Intent and Mox Opal lists from the SI thread, the archetype is more consistent when you stay in one color for Vault of Whispers - Rite of Flame and Burning Wish is costing you a turn it looks like.
    Thank you for taking an interest in my post Final Fortune. I have taken a look at some Spanish Inquisition lists and I think I looked at he ones you mentioned. Though I have not play tested Spanish Inquisition, I have played TEAS several times and it is consistent. I usually do have enough black and/or red mana to support the function of TEAS with there being 29 mana sources that could produce black mana and 24 mana sources that could produce red mana. I usually am able to get both black and red mana available on turn one.

  18. #8738
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Worobec View Post
    I dont think that Chrome Moxen work well with so few cards to imprint and judging from the amount of artifacts, you dont need them to get the Opals running.

    The problem with this concept is card quality, especially after mulligan. Just like belcher you have to mull for a business spell, which are about half of traditional TES'. Also, having to cycle through baubles is slow as hell and doenst get you anywhere if you draw into Chrome Moxen, more baubles or other redundant pieces. The beauty of cantrips is raising the card quality, which i dont think can be substituted by baubles
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  19. #8739

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Had a chance to record a league with The EPIC Storm featuring zero copies of Past in Flames! Don't forget to like and subscribe! ⛈⛈⛈

    https://theepicstorm.com/legacy-leag...ka8t_ueloib5lA

  20. #8740

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    With the recent printings of Pteramander and Light up the Stage, UR Delver is back! Not only is it playing these new cards, but also playing cards like Wasteland! How does it matchup against TES?

    https://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup...s-ur-delver-ii

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