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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #8861

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Lurrus looks really strong for such low opportunity cost. Who knew the path to natural storm kills was turning sideways?

    Imagine if this was in print before they banned Breach. "crack LED for my companion, replay Underworld Breach and win". Bonus Sevinne's Reclamation from the Command Zone.

    Round 4 G2 vs Turbo Depths:
    What do you think about Wish for Echo (2 floating) over the 10 Goblins? Echo also lets you play Lurus in between, Empty doesn't. Even if you whiff, you have a full grip with Lurrus in play and mulliganned their hand, instead of gambling 10 Goblins on the draw races a hand they chose to keep. Having Lurrus must change the odds on the Wish lines.
    You end up being weak to Surgical which I thought my opponent may have. Most Depths decks run a few and I didn't want to risk it. Typically, Goblins would've won in a majority of scenarios except for exactly what happened. C'est la vie.

  2. #8862

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Two copies of TES made the top 8 of the Legacy Challenge today! You can watch my matches here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBqA...etuZJzSQ92rEBN

  3. #8863

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Hope you wanted more Doomsday content... https://www.theepicstorm.com/matchup-mulligan-doomsday/

  4. #8864

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    This month's "Infernal Tutoring" article is now live, featuring ANTHONY LAVERDE (AIGIS)! Check it out, and let me know what plays you would have made in our three latest scenarios.

    https://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-40/

  5. #8865

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Made it to the finals of the Legacy challenge! Didn't quite get there but second place is still a solid day. My matches were honestly insane you can catch them here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...QeC-TzSHNGfc_z

  6. #8866

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Just finished watching the vods. Those were indeed some incredible matches, congrats on the finish!

    The MD Tendrils put in tons of work it seems. I've been liking it as well so far, though I've also been worrying about the strength of my Ad Nauseams with a 6 and a 4 in the deck... I've actually been testing cutting the MD Echo and putting the Chain back in. I'm aware of what I'm losing out on, but the Ad Nauseams are very strong now. The best I've ever seen from any Storm variant, in fact. And with Chain and Lurrus there is a decently reliable low-life late game kill from Claw (Claw for Chain, generate storm bouncing Moxen and Claw plus Lurrus shenanigans, then recast Claw into Tendrils).

    Any thoughts on that?

  7. #8867

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    Just finished watching the vods. Those were indeed some incredible matches, congrats on the finish!

    The MD Tendrils put in tons of work it seems. I've been liking it as well so far, though I've also been worrying about the strength of my Ad Nauseams with a 6 and a 4 in the deck... I've actually been testing cutting the MD Echo and putting the Chain back in. I'm aware of what I'm losing out on, but the Ad Nauseams are very strong now. The best I've ever seen from any Storm variant, in fact. And with Chain and Lurrus there is a decently reliable low-life late game kill from Claw (Claw for Chain, generate storm bouncing Moxen and Claw plus Lurrus shenanigans, then recast Claw into Tendrils).

    Any thoughts on that?
    I can't say that I like these changes, cutting a Storm engine for a bounce spell are not one in the same but feel free to continue testing it and prove me wrong. If you watch the videos, you see I actually use the main deck Echo of Eons quite a bit. I believe you may have some tunnel vision on Ad Nauseam when it isn't required as much recently.

  8. #8868

  9. #8869

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    An instructional guide for The EPIC Storm is now live! https://www.theepicstorm.com/deck-re...-guide-to-tes/

  10. #8870
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Hi guys,
    lot time dont pot here... happened breach and companions and now moreless like beforethose - at its simplest.
    first I wish you all everybody is fine.

    Iw rite because it seems a new card to be looked at has been printed. Peer into the abbyss. maybe it happens like Talisman which finally was included - maybe not.

    hings about the card:
    - it has same mana cost like IT->A.N AND is not life resource dependant
    - it is asymetric
    - It has no synergy with LED
    - it reads draw so narset and Misdi can be now a thing.

    concluson/deas
    the shitty thing is that has no synergy with our best mana produced there fore any synergy around IT OR BW OR WY->into this is not mana efficient - this is the really sad thing.
    therefore to build a deck around this card you need to go to a slower route consisting in CR/GM as aditional mana producers - I don't like this for TES as will be slower - but this doesn't mean either it'll become just worse.
    the really chagellnge would be then to try to explode this angle in the best possible way - means to be more efficient at the cost of speed. but - again - do we want this? I don't.

    I found then that this card is likely the best Mizzies Mystery target there can exist. so if this is in GY you just need only 4 mana to win the game and thats it.
    in order to acomplish this you need to get this and MM and a LED in hand. I ve been thinking about this quite a bit - what does it mean? 3MM 3this and 4BW 4TW OR IT as example? too tough or nonsense - maybe? maybe just 1MM 3/4this and 4BW 4TW OR IT ? full of MM and this main? dont know.

    having in mind this - maybe this can just be the only win main apart of other angles obtained by BW - I mean we can just stop using EoA main as ex. however i like to have this direction - maybe we can delegat its function only as BW Target...
    I dont know if the direction of a possble way would be to go more in the MMastery route balanced by a tiny of the possiblity to being able to cast the card directly thoruh CR/GMonoliths... plus some other paths from BW - likely for this pustpose I would prefer TW but this likely involves GMonolit/DG/MOpalsChromes... OR - the other direction - means: CR/TSeize/Preordain/+Landsfew??? how it can be?

    there it goes those 2 aproahes:

    3 Peer into the abyss
    1 Mizzix's Mastery

    4 Burning Wish

    4 Ponder
    3 Grim Monolith
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Veil of Summer
    2 Chrome Mox
    2 Defense Grid
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Wishclaw Talisman

    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Badlands
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Bayou
    1 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island

    Timo/ CR duress/TSeize,etc way:

    4 TSeize
    3 Duress

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Infernal Tutor
    3 Burning Wish
    3 Peer into the abyss
    1 Mizzix's Mastery

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lions Eye Diamond
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual

    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Swamp
    1 Island

    still all theory but wanted throw some thoughts. sure maybe EoA can be added, or 1 lands to 2nd list- maybe a full of MM and this is the right solution or maybe backwards...

    in my mind if we start to play this means AN will change - as first time I believe since its inception - from beeing the n1 wincond to be n0 - thing I really don't think or don't want it will happen...

    EDIT: Maybe a new deck just pure B or BR can be built - you mentioned FFortune as ex: Medallions and NWshipers like build

    Opinions?
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  11. #8871

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    At best, I think it's a SB card to replace the Burning Wish -> black tutor -> Ad Nauseam line, every thing else is either too slow or graveyard reliant. Even out of the board, I doubt it's going to have much utility compared to hard casting Echo of Eons for 6 and chaining into Flashback. Mana efficiency matters more than anything else on win conditions, this thing only has the fixed life loss and asymmetry going for it.

    I kind of wonder if this is a card better suited for Gifts Ungiven or Intuition piles?

  12. #8872
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    At best, I think it's a SB card to replace the Burning Wish -> black tutor -> Ad Nauseam line, every thing else is either too slow or graveyard reliant. Even out of the board, I doubt it's going to have much utility compared to hard casting Echo of Eons for 6 and chaining into Flashback. Mana efficiency matters more than anything else on win conditions, this thing only has the fixed life loss and asymmetry going for it.

    I kind of wonder if this is a card better suited for Gifts Ungiven or Intuition piles?
    - the card is mana efficient as no other - it is equivalent to tutor -> A.N
    - the thing I hate is to have to pay the mana via OtherStuffDiffThanLED - lets say, as example if the the card would have also same flashback cost... then it would be a great card.
    - the GY dependancy exists more in approach B beacuse of also CR and in case we want to do MM -> this.in approach A with GMonolith there is just the issue of MM
    - MM -> this is - I believe - the best mana efficient engine existing, also IT->This is just 6 mana - means more efficient than IT->AN even. in order to occur tihs u just need to have LED,tutor,this,DR.(easy turn 1 withouth petal or mox...)
    - don't think GU or Intituition are worth -> will not be mana efficient - I am trying to imagine a pile in which with GU yu win the same turn but nothing seems efficient.

    EDIT: I've been goldfishing some hands variating the n of MM and this, and - as suposed - the MM+this synergy is good but still a 2 card combo, which is sad and trying to cast this is quite an oddysey - LED does not help in here sadly...
    likely in my build thi can replace at the same time Pif and IT , but even I am not sure if I want to replace both those by this... BW into IT and wait next turn is 7 mana under LED... will try definaely 1of in my side... the thing about PiF is for me mainly for post AN - but once you have drawn cards the new card is worse when PiF becomes better for this purpose.
    Last edited by Pelikanudo; 06-07-2020 at 07:51 AM.
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  13. #8873

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    - the card is mana efficient as no other - it is equivalent to tutor -> A.N
    - the thing I hate is to have to pay the mana via OtherStuffDiffThanLED - lets say, as example if the the card would have also same flashback cost... then it would be a great card.
    - the GY dependancy exists more in approach B beacuse of also CR and in case we want to do MM -> this.in approach A with GMonolith there is just the issue of MM
    - MM -> this is - I believe - the best mana efficient engine existing, also IT->This is just 6 mana - means more efficient than IT->AN even. in order to occur tihs u just need to have LED,tutor,this,DR.(easy turn 1 withouth petal or mox...)
    - don't think GU or Intituition are worth -> will not be mana efficient - I am trying to imagine a pile in which with GU yu win the same turn but nothing seems efficient.

    EDIT: I've been goldfishing some hands variating the n of MM and this, and - as suposed - the MM+this synergy is good but still a 2 card combo, which is sad and trying to cast this is quite an oddysey - LED does not help in here sadly...
    likely in my build thi can replace at the same time Pif and IT , but even I am not sure if I want to replace both those by this... BW into IT and wait next turn is 7 mana under LED... will try definaely 1of in my side... the thing about PiF is for me mainly for post AN - but once you have drawn cards the new card is worse when PiF becomes better for this purpose.
    Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseam are mana efficient because Lion's Eye Diamond is an excellerent, if 6+ .mana was mana efficient in and of itself then we wouldn't be using LED to begin with. Even after the passing with a Grim Monolith on board, you're looking at a T3 fundamental turn at the earliest. Otherwise you're looking at Cabal Ritual with Threshold, but either way you're giving the opponent new ways to interact with a permanent on board or cards in the graveyard.

    If you go the MM route, what makes it any better than Reanimating a Griselbrand? I think the card has a lot of barriers to entry for Storm, I mean you are talking Tooth and Nail mana here

  14. #8874

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Peer into the Abyss is a card I'm excited to test with. Here are my initial thoughts!

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...he_epic_storm/

  15. #8875

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    After some initial goldfishing I'm convinced enough that this card essentially says 'you win the game'. That coupled with the fact that it's a viable late game kill condition (outside of specific scenarios against Lightning Bolt decks) means to me that this will have some place in Legacy Storm decks. For TES it's probably a good side option, though in ANT I wouldn't even be surprised to see this as a maindeck card in multiples.

  16. #8876
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    After some initial goldfishing I'm convinced enough that this card essentially says 'you win the game'. That coupled with the fact that it's a viable late game kill condition (outside of specific scenarios against Lightning Bolt decks) means to me that this will have some place in Legacy Storm decks. For TES it's probably a good side option, though in ANT I wouldn't even be surprised to see this as a maindeck card in multiples.
    I 've been a fan of late cards mean WT, EoE, Veil and HB.

    the card in deed reads win the game, but need to have in mind a couple of things:
    - for ANT you should have ablailable B mana to go on with DR into win - at least OR draw petal. --> this means +1 mana available when casting if you intend to put up the likhood of winning the same turn it is casted
    - for TES -it directly reads win the game as likely you'll draw petal or mox or opal

    the real problem as FF and me stated is that cannot be casted off LED (I wish the card also had flasbck same cost...) which means 2lands +DR+CR which is perfectly fine in ANT. add+1 to put up thelikehood of winning the same turn and add +1 for disruption as possible scenarios.

    I have to recognize I didn't test in ANT/TNT Build and likely in here is a good card as it is a slower deck and it is asymetric as PiF and no GY dependancy, in TES where cards like CR or preordain don't make the cut is not reallystic - only 1 in side.
    I have doubts anyway if in ANT main will see play as:
    - you have alreadyPiF which is asymetric and no lifedependant and more mana efficent and casted under LED -->purpose mid-to-late game as equal as Peer
    - you have AN (for those needing still training wheels) as quick engine off LED via IT.

    as said I don't discard this will see play in ANT - but in TES only in 1 side. in my mind in TNT build from Timo Schunemn likely those 3 BW + 1 AN can be 4 Peer even. BUT, it will be slower for sure. I as storm player don't like to be slow - I like to have a possition in which I can win quick, but in ANT, the card likely will make the deck more resilient, but not quicker, thing I personally dislike. the unique new angle the card opens for ANT is not GY dependancy, but if CR is switched off you are again the the same angle as GY dependacy refers.
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  17. #8877

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    One of the upsides to this in a MD over Ad Nauseam is that Spirit Guides are no risk again, maybe something like Belcher or SI could use it? It wins the game on the spot, so Summoner's Pact is another four Spirit Guides as well. Does this get there with just a crap ton of mana behind it? Spoils of the Vault also makes LED lines more mana efficient, could be entertaining at least.

  18. #8878
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    One of the upsides to this in a MD over Ad Nauseam is that Spirit Guides are no risk again, maybe something like Belcher or SI could use it? It wins the game on the spot, so Summoner's Pact is another four Spirit Guides as well. Does this get there with just a crap ton of mana behind it? Spoils of the Vault also makes LED lines more mana efficient, could be entertaining at least.
    Lake of the Dead come to my mind too. (Natural Balance and Squanrenderd REsources and sure - CBloom!)
    also likely Rain of Filth and.... dont know maybe in a Spiral Tide build containing the Bubble Muck approach!

    yes - entertaining.
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  19. #8879

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I didn't do any extensive testing, but I did test drawing 20 cards (which should be on the low end on average) in ANT assuming no mana floating and practically always found the win. Remember that finding 2 LEDs plus PiF also wins in cases where you missed on Petal.

    In TNT it's really good in the side, but in the main I think you want to keep AN for the same reasons as TES. Both are much better than ANT at casting AN and you don't want to lose out on that advantage.

    Peer is in a weird spot. It's kind of suboptimal as a conventional one-off tutor target storm engine because it's so expensive. It kind of wants to be drawn and played naturally, in which case it's strictly better than Tutor into AN in a vacuum. But that would mean playing 4 of them, which means you'll draw multiples sometimes and there's still the problem that you can't cast it off LED out of hand.

  20. #8880
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Izor View Post
    I didn't do any extensive testing, but I did test drawing 20 cards (which should be on the low end on average) in ANT assuming no mana floating and practically always found the win. Remember that finding 2 LEDs plus PiF also wins in cases where you missed on Petal.

    In TNT it's really good in the side, but in the main I think you want to keep AN for the same reasons as TES. Both are much better than ANT at casting AN and you don't want to lose out on that advantage.

    Peer is in a weird spot. It's kind of suboptimal as a conventional one-off tutor target storm engine because it's so expensive. It kind of wants to be drawn and played naturally, in which case it's strictly better than Tutor into AN in a vacuum. But that would mean playing 4 of them, which means you'll draw multiples sometimes and there's still the problem that you can't cast it off LED out of hand.
    sure statistics are statistics.
    you need for a 2nd turn win: DR,CR,2Lands/Petals,+3shold--> not possible a 2nd turn win unless M.M. path.
    no LED involved, or Double CR.

    Maybe you can add Street Wraith to the equation!

    this is not ANT threat but a theorectical list would be easily:
    (just copied pasted last one from TC Decks and adjusted)

    3 Veil of Summer OR Duress
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Cabal Ritual
    4 Dark Ritual

    1 Past in Flames
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Ponder
    [
    3 Preordain
    4 Peer
    1 Mizzys Mastery
    ]
    OR
    [
    4 Preordain
    3 Peer
    1 Rain of Filth
    ]

    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Lotus Petal

    1 Bayou
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Snow-Covered Island
    1 Snow-Covered Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta

    One last consideration about the Peer into the Abyss:
    I am not going to say it is bad or good or other thing, but a fact and is: Peer into the Abyss makes LED a worse card for Storm. (sure unless M.M) - all playable Storm threats get along with LED - lets say IT, BW, WT into AN,EoA,PiF
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