[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[SeoHyun]

Its quite late to practice this deck so close to SCGNJ, so I wouldn't get my hopes high. Bloodmoon isn't your problem at all as you need red mana anyways and you can secure black mana with Swamp, Petals and Moxen. Losing against Bloodmoon is a matter of bad hands/keeps/decisions and Painter is a classic deck for the belcher.dec mode of TES.

Fish isn't much of an issue either. Decay removes all permanents and Xantids block all counterspells without them having a method to remove the bug.

This is my current SB:

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Past in Flames
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Massacre
1 Dark Petition

Don't get my hopes high about what? Winning? That was never my goal.

Thank you for the help. I have a feeling that I'm "going too deep" to analyze what is simply a fundamental problem with my play. I will make sure to test these matchups to make sure I'm keeping appropriate hands with the correct tools to fight each one's obstacles. I'm guessing that the three sideboarded Empties is what contributes to your "Belcher" plan. If you have one naturally it makes your hands much more explosive and easier to get your opponent to wait to counter a tutor that never comes until it's too late for them to counter the Empty. I will keep this in mind.

[Lemnear]

Don't get my hopes high about what? Winning? That was never my goal.

Thank you for the help. I have a feeling that I'm "going too deep" to analyze what is simply a fundamental problem with my play. I will make sure to test these matchups to make sure I'm keeping appropriate hands with the correct tools to fight each one's obstacles. I'm guessing that the three sideboarded Empties is what contributes to your "Belcher" plan. If you have one naturally it makes your hands much more explosive and easier to get your opponent to wait to counter a tutor that never comes until it's too late for them to counter the Empty. I will keep this in mind.

"win for 4 mana instead of 6" makes the deck even faster which is relevant vs D&T and Co. as well. It is also an addition to the Miracles Matchup to pressure them with quick, low-investment EtWs for 4-6 Goblins to stress their reduced removal postboard. If they clear the board somehow, rinse and repeat while Decay keeps Counterbalance off the table

[Dr_D]

"win for 4 mana instead of 6" makes the deck even faster which is relevant vs D&T and Co. as well. It is also an addition to the Miracles Matchup to pressure them with quick, low-investment EtWs for 4-6 Goblins to stress their reduced removal postboard. If they clear the board somehow, rinse and repeat while Decay keeps Counterbalance off the table

So how do you board against Miracles and DnT?

[Lemnear]

So how do you board against Miracles and DnT?

I'm sure there are better solutions, but i'm testing with:

D&T: -2 Duress, -2 Ponder, +2 Chain, +2 EtW
Miracles: -4 Ponder, -2 Mox, +4 Decay, +2 EtW

[Final Fortune]

Xantid Swarm seems like a really dubious choice if you're not even bothering to board it in vs Miracles?

[Pelikanudo]

By the moment my try vs miracles is full A.D. plus the Single Autums veil and single Xantid which It is okish... Maybe I go back to the Doomsday + Emrakul plan vs this Archetype at some point...
Regarding that Lemnears Strategy, doesn't seem bad to just increase the number of E.T. to 3 in M.D. I still have not tested this and really want to test.
What I find redundant is also siding in the 4 A.D., as the purpose of EtW is exactly this - avoid C.B. as no matter how many C.B. there are in play - you'll be able to at least resolve 1 EtW, that's why maybe it is worth to just play Flusterstorm instead of more redundant A.D. --> uniquely for Terminus which also avoids C.B.! Fluster is also good vs S&T and reanimator however again we are in trouble if we would want to protect our combo via LED... I know the idea behind is to have odds to combo once C.B. is resolved even if the Gobs are destroyed. well these are just ideas...

[Lemnear]

Xantid Swarm seems like a really dubious choice if you're not even bothering to board it in vs Miracles?

Its not in the sideboard for this matchup in the first place. It was fine to bring in if you have nothing else, but it doesn't win you the game against Counterbalance or Clique like ever, which is the reason I will no longer board them. They are in the sideboard for Reanimator/Meerfolk/SneakShow/etc. which I expect to return

[arj]

Played in a local turney today, went 4 0. This deck is a blast to play and much better in the new no-dig meta.

[Final Fortune]

Its not in the sideboard for this matchup in the first place. It was fine to bring in if you have nothing else, but it doesn't win you the game against Counterbalance or Clique like ever, which is the reason I will no longer board them. They are in the sideboard for Reanimator/Meerfolk/SneakShow/etc. which I expect to return

I don't think a SB card dedicated to just those match ups is worth the SB space, the card gets narrower in application by the day.

[OliverFist]

On the issue ANT vs TES, what I really like is the diversity of ways to actually win the game. In many cases ANT depends on the grave and there dependency on ToA needs them to get a to a higher storm count, which is harder with grave hate.
Just a quick question: What is meant by the belcher.dec mode of the deck? I am familiar with the deck idea of belcher, but it didnt come to my mind what exactly the similarities can be in terms of a game plan.

[Lemnear]

On the issue ANT vs TES, what I really like is the diversity of ways to actually win the game. In many cases ANT depends on the grave and there dependency on ToA needs them to get a to a higher storm count, which is harder with grave hate.
Just a quick question: What is meant by the belcher.dec mode of the deck? I am familiar with the deck idea of belcher, but it didnt come to my mind what exactly the similarities can be in terms of a game plan.

The diversity of ways is a problem itself for many players as they often miss winning lines and the same is true if you look at ANT and think the deck has serious problems winning vs yard-hate in general. Both deck can simply execute pretty cheap cantrip/Artifact playlines for lethal natural Tendrils which is a trait which is especially underused by TES players as most only look at EtW or AN to win and usually forget cantrip-chains, DP-chain or PIF as options. ANT has zero problems to win w/o Cabal Rituals +3 boost or PIF. They just fire cantrips, discard, Ritual, LED, IT, ToA and win. Engines are overrated.

The Belcher-Mode of TES is simply the plan to win asap by keeping hands accordingly and building a reckless hand. It dismisses to work around Wasteland/Daze/Pierce/FoW/etc. or looking for discard with the simple goal to combo asap. It's describing the plan to YOLO with quick, risky comboturns

[OliverFist]

The diversity of ways is a problem itself for many players as they often miss winning lines and the same is true if you look at ANT and think the deck has serious problems winning vs yard-hate in general. Both deck can simply execute pretty cheap cantrip/Artifact playlines for lethal natural Tendrils which is a trait which is especially underused by TES players as most only look at EtW or AN to win and usually forget cantrip-chains, DP-chain or PIF as options. ANT has zero problems to win w/o Cabal Rituals +3 boost or PIF. They just fire cantrips, discard, Ritual, LED, IT, ToA and win. Engines are overrated.

The Belcher-Mode of TES is simply the plan to win asap by keeping hands accordingly and building a reckless hand. It dismisses to work around Wasteland/Daze/Pierce/FoW/etc. or looking for discard with the simple goal to combo asap. It's describing the plan to YOLO with quick, risky comboturns

Thanks for the explanation, I find myself rarely make use of the DP thereby you are obviously right. I am still in the beginnings of learning how to play the deck. What would you say were the biggest learning processes you made when playing TES?

[Lemnear]

I don't think a SB card dedicated to just those match ups is worth the SB space, the card gets narrower in application by the day.

It's not that these matchups are all. You can board it versus 12-Post, Infect and even more. I'm still open for suggestions.

[Lemnear]

Thanks for the explanation, I find myself rarely make use of the DP thereby you are obviously right. I am still in the beginnings of learning how to play the deck. What would you say were the biggest learning processes you made when playing TES?

I give you two:

To chill out. This deck has the potential to be damn fast, but a lot of matchups don't require you to win T1 or T2 so don't Force speed and certain playlines.

Cantrip only to find the ONE missing card. Don't expect that a cantrip fixes a shitty keep which lacks mana AND a Tutor. If that's the case, see my first advice and chill out. Once you draw into one of the missing pieces, you know what to look for with your cantrips.

[OliverFist]

So yeah, I tested the deck on the weekend against human opponents the first time. I played against a modern grixis delver and against miracles.

Grixis actually rekt me. I had many problems with the big amount of counter spells and hand disruption. I assume that I went into the combo too fast, although I knew there could be some kind of counters in his hand. 4 spell snare actually did some huge work against me. Patience is really a thing I have to get used to. With what I am really struggling concerning this is that I am afraid the amount of counterspells they will draw into is bigger than the amount of disruption I will draw. Is it a better tactic to spare the discard spells until I can use them all at once in one turn, so that therapy potentially hits more cards? Or should I disrupt constantly, that was really hard for me to decide... I am not sure what is the better tactic.

Against miracles I actually managed to go off twice, after I cast a 16 storm count EtW he topdecked Terminus. In the second game the same happened. It was not possible for me to cast ToA to kill him right away because black mana was missing or the storm count was too low. Against miracles my tactics was to try to go into the combo faster, because it probably is harder in the late game and they have more answers to threats.

...its a long way to the top...

[Lemnear]

So yeah, I tested the deck on the weekend against human opponents the first time. I played against a modern grixis delver and against miracles.

Grixis actually rekt me. I had many problems with the big amount of counter spells and hand disruption. I assume that I went into the combo too fast, although I knew there could be some kind of counters in his hand. 4 spell snare actually did some huge work against me. Patience is really a thing I have to get used to. With what I am really struggling concerning this is that I am afraid the amount of counterspells they will draw into is bigger than the amount of disruption I will draw. Is it a better tactic to spare the discard spells until I can use them all at once in one turn, so that therapy potentially hits more cards? Or should I disrupt constantly, that was really hard for me to decide... I am not sure what is the better tactic.

Against miracles I actually managed to go off twice, after I cast a 16 storm count EtW he topdecked Terminus. In the second game the same happened. It was not possible for me to cast ToA to kill him right away because black mana was missing or the storm count was too low. Against miracles my tactics was to try to go into the combo faster, because it probably is harder in the late game and they have more answers to threats.

...its a long way to the top...

Unless you play against combo (or desasterous turn 2 drops a la Thalia), your discard has to be cast close to or in your combo turn. You don't care for their FoW in their starting grip if you can not combo before turn 4 anyways for example. There is also no need to cantrip into Rituals/Tutor early against discard as your hand fills with mana and business all by itself. Let them cast their Thoughtseize and shit against your cantrips rather than your tutors.

In Lille I resolved a T5 AN against T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Hymn, T3 Hymn just by making landdrops and doing nothing until I had enough mana on board and a business spell topdecked

[Bryant Cook]

11th at EE3. Report to follow.

[Bryant Cook]

My report from this weekend: http://www.theepicstorm.com/storming...10242015-11th/

[KaiSchafroth]

Had a bleh showing with TES at SCG St. Louis - cracked "day 2" but then turned into a potato and punted away the day to miss cashing (80/464). Largest legacy event I've ever played (something like a 5-6rounder local before that) so inexperience with playing TES over a longer haul definitely a factor plus I still consider myself new to the deck anyhow. Apologies to any opponents where I may have tanked a little long or taken longer lines than needed.
Regardless, goblins were made (130 by my count) and many tendrils stormed off. Wrestled with it a bit but settled on Bryant's 75 and it certainly felt like the right list for the weekend (the list in his above EE3 report for as the list evolves).

[Izor]

Great report, as always. Shame you didn't make top8, but yeah. That one bad matchup plus that one time the deck cheats on you are usually enough to knock you out already.


I've considered playing Surgicals to improve the Storm/Dredge/Reanimator matchups before, but I could never really find the room for them. Between the wish board, and both of the green spells which I feel are needed, I don't know what to cut. I do agree that the singleton discard spell and the 3rd Xantid are probably the only cards that are expendable. In my local meta, decks that I want Xantid against are on a decline, so I can get away playing only 2 of them for now. Though you obviously needed Xantids a lot there, so 2 may be too few.

I'm personally still playing 7 discard spells and for me it's always been the correct number. It's worth mentioning that extra discard also helps in the aforementioned combo matchups that we struggle against sometimes. That said, I only play 1 Mox (plus 14 lands), so I have one more slot for that 7th discard spell in my main. In a list with only 6 discard main, though, I'd hesitate even more cutting the discard spell from the sidebard.