[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[davelin]

Bryant appears to have went 3-1 in the first legacy portion of SCGinvi.

Get there!

Sounds like the new changes are working!

[JPoJohnson]

Sounds like the new changes are working!

I missed where he spoke about that. 5 MB changes?


Nice work Bryant! Keep it up (:

[BrettF]

Looks like Bryant is 6-2 after day one. Keep fighting!

[davelin]

Looks like Bryant is 6-2 after day one. Keep fighting!

Royce as well!

[BrettF]

Royce as well!

Sweet! I'll assume he's testing the same list as Bryant.

[Lemnear]

I'm curious about the losses. Anybody can help me our here?

@Holly: there is no list update while we're throwing ideas around, "simple as that". The Invitational is the first real field test. Possibly, that there are some more changes over the weekend too. There are no 3 "official" lists per week like in other threads with a bunch of turncoats.

[jin]

I'm curious about the losses. Anybody can help me our here?

@Holly: there is no list update while we're throwing ideas around, "simple as that". The Invitational is the first real field test. Possibly, that there are some more changes over the weekend too. There are no 3 "official" lists per week like in other threads with a bunch of turncoats.

Thank goodness. Consistency is what makes this deck appealing. The only big changes come in the SB. It is interesting how people are willing to jump on board with Bryant's changes. Not many post their versions of the list. I wonder why. I think this is the only deck that operates in this manner on these forums. Is anyone still updating the version of the primer on mtgsalvation? I haven't been there in ages.

Also, can someone update the rest of us by giving us some context. Where are you guys seeing these changes? At this point, I'm just guessing you guys are watching the live stream, but that doesn't tell us much about a new deck list...

[Final Fortune]

Thank goodness. Consistency is what makes this deck appealing. The only big changes come in the SB. It is interesting how people are willing to jump on board with Bryant's changes. Not many post their versions of the list. I wonder why. I think this is the only deck that operates in this manner on these forums. Is anyone still updating the version of the primer on mtgsalvation? I haven't been there in ages.

Also, can someone update the rest of us by giving us some context. Where are you guys seeing these changes? At this point, I'm just guessing you guys are watching the live stream, but that doesn't tell us much about a new deck list...

It's to the mana base, disruption and SB, they didn't mention it specifically but the changes to the SB are actually a result of the changes to the disruption. Those are the only mutable parts of any TES deck, once the event is over I'll post the derivative list Bryant made his list from as we're only off about 2 MD cards and 2 SB cards from each other and those differences are minimal.

6-2 on D1 seems like a successful outing, and depending on UWR's standing in the metagame, which I think is bound to decline in favour of BUG and UWBg, I think it's safe to say this is the new MD and there is a new SB staple.

[Lemnear]

Also, can someone update the rest of us by giving us some context. Where are you guys seeing these changes? At this point, I'm just guessing you guys are watching the live stream, but that doesn't tell us much about a new deck list...

This is because Bryant and I have a lil' Facebook chat for TES ideas, lists, tests etc. and with pure Tempo decks and Leyline of Sanctity gone there was the chance to give the manabase more space to breathe and consistancy and we talked about my post BoM test-list with the alternative disruption which did not work out back then because of the remaining number of tempo decks which were present. Now things changed with everyone an their mom running SFM and no stifles/aggressive Wastelands. We switched my MB Tropical (barely more than an Island in MB) for a Volcanic (see the recent Fetchland/dual topic in this thread) and that's it. We messaged Final Fortune for more Input, tested more, tuned numbers and the result will be present here by tomorrow.

P.S. Twitter user know more ;)

[jin]

It's to the mana base, disruption and SB, they didn't mention it specifically but the changes to the SB are actually a result of the changes to the disruption. Those are the only mutable parts of any TES deck, once the event is over I'll post the derivative list Bryant made his list from as we're only off about 2 MD cards and 2 SB cards from each other and those differences are minimal.

6-2 on D1 seems like a successful outing, and depending on UWR's standing in the metagame, which I think is bound to decline in favour of BUG and UWBg, I think it's safe to say this is the new MD and there is a new SB staple.

Thanks for context!

This is because Bryant and I have a lil' Facebook chat for TES ideas, lists, tests etc. and with pure Tempo decks and Leyline of Sanctity gone there was the chance to give the manabase more space to breathe and consistancy and we talked about my post BoM test-list with the alternative disruption which did not work out back then because of the remaining number of tempo decks which were present. Now things changed with everyone an their mom running SFM and no stifles/aggressive Wastelands. We switched my MB Tropical (barely more than an Island in MB) for a Volcanic (see the recent Fetchland/dual topic in this thread) and that's it. We messaged Final Fortune for more Input, tested more, tuned numbers and the result will be present here by tomorrow.

P.S. Twitter user know more ;)

Send Twitter name! Itching to see what's up!

[Lemnear]

I announced changes there and gave some hints so people don't invest in cards that leave the deck and such

[Bahamuth]

Could you discuss why you like adding a second Volcanic over another fetchland?

[Lemnear]

Could you discuss why you like adding a second Volcanic over another fetchland?

My list had Tropical in the MB and it was plain bad in the Maindeck so Bryant immediately made it a second Volcanic. The reason for this is basically the same as for the 2 U.Seas: being less vulnerable to Wasteland while having always a quality target for your Fetches. During the time with the 4c Maindeck it was impossible to squeeze in without hurting shuffle effects even further or making Silence uncastable.

The biggest upsides is that the protected kill is now 2-colored instead of 3-colored and we have additional quality out against Batterskull, hatebears, Clique, Counterbalance, etc. and having more shuffle effects, with the downside that DimRet is now pretty useless against blue decks

[Lordofthestringz]

My list had Tropical in the MB and it was plain bad in the Maindeck so Bryant immediately made it a second Volcanic. The reason for this is basically the same as for the 2 U.Seas: being less vulnerable to Wasteland while having always a quality target for your Fetches. During the time with the 4c Maindeck it was impossible to squeeze in without hurting shuffle effects even further or making Silence uncastable.

The biggest upsides is that the protected kill is now 2-colored instead of 3-colored and we have additional quality out against Batterskull, hatebears, Clique, Counterbalance, etc. and having more shuffle effects, with the downside that DimRet is now pretty useless against blue decks

So silences came out of the deck and we will be running more discard? I like that aproach, i switch between ANT and TES quite often and i like the ideia of running more discard. It also makes sense to add more fetches and duals in this case since we will not need W.

Looking forward to see the final list :)

[Final Fortune]

I don't think Diminishing Returns is useless vs blue decks but you have to SB out Infernal Tutor more than ever vs blue decks, Diminishing Returns is still an effective win condition vs BUG and UBW because they can only redraw into Force of Will and Daze instead of Spell Snare and Spare Pierce, but you'll have to float more mana, and specifically black mana, in order to kill with it. You'll routinely find yourself using Diminishing Returns and floating black just to be able to recoup the card disadvantage from Chrome Mox, hit your land drop, look at your opponent's new hand, discard his best card and pass the turn. I believe in winning small with Diminishing Returns and never relied on resolving Silence in the first place, so while Diminishing Returns loses efficacy it doesn't lose utility.

I don't think Bryant is on the 2nd Volcanic Island judging from the last PM he sent me and I don't think there's any need for it, the most important aspect of the new TES lists is in the land sequencing. We can play Gemstone Mines before Fetchlands and no longer care if the Gemstone Mine is destroyed, because another land and a Chrome Mox can meet all of the color requirements for the deck. The Cantrip sequencing is stronger now than before when we had to take Silence into account, so which land you lead with isn't as important as whether or not you have a Fetchland to follow it with.

Edit: My bad, I didn't discuss that with him and I discussed that with some one else who PMed me, nevertheless I think 5th Fetchland > 2nd Volcanic Island because you rarely want to draw Volcanic Island.

The deck is less powerful, but faster, more efficient, more versatile, more resilient, more interactive and rewards tighter play; I still think my MD is technically better than Bryant's because I can go off from a lower life total, but I'm more of a poker player than I am a Brainstorm player so I'm willing to write the cards off as functionally equivalent. We approached the same problem from two different solutions, altho' I think his Duress and 2nd Pyroblast are better served as Inquisition of Kozilek in a world where some people only MD 3 Force of Will.

In short, RUG is dead, welcome to 2014.

[BrettF]

Royce and Bryant both at 7-3.

Are there any other TES players that we know of at the event?

EDIT:

Royce is now 9-3
Bryant is now 7-5

[sawatarix]

Gogo Royce,go laser them all !


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Plague Sliver]

So I'm playing Magical Theory Fighter most of the time with this deck, due to being in China. But I played TES at the GP Beijing side event yesterday.

Round 1 was vs...yup...reanimator. G1 he was faster, G2 I Grapeshotted his ass, G3 he gambled with a hand with no protection and raced me by 1 turn.

Tells me afterwards he plays this deck and wanted something less mentally taxing to play, despite having to read what Xantid Swarm does. Umm yeah sure buddy.

I still rocked Xantid Swarm + Telemin in the board, could've really used Surgicals. Wouldve blown him out.

Question: if we are discussing Surgical in the board, could we conceivably run Karakas in its place instead? Karakas is still as unstoppable as ever and we are faster than Dredge.

[davelin]

I've played the newer list for about 5-6 matches. I didn't miss Silences too much and the new manabase felt tighter. There were times though I wished (pun intended) there was a discard spell in the SB to burn a Wish for.

[wonderPreaux]

I find the newer build to be pretty interesting, but I think the loss of Silence is worth more consideration than people are giving it. Discard is a good tool for disruption and protection, but there are some situations it really can't handle. High densities of hate-bears, or opposing discard can be better handled by Silence-walking than your own discard. Discard also doesn't do the job against decks like Miracles,which is fairly popular lately, that can float Counters with Top, you can play around Vendilion Clique with preemptive discard, for instance, but a Flusterstorm/Fow on top of the deck can lurk at any time. The loss of Silence also weakens your combo matchups, since you no longer have the ability to hold-up a full stop to their turn that can also act as a Mind Twist for the greedy or unprepared. I think this is evidenced by mentions of siding Telemin Performance if scouting reveals a lot of combo/reanimator players. There is also the obviously increased vulnerability to Leyline of Sanctity, but it's not as though Omni-Tell or similar decks are particularly popular as of late. While I do appreciate the increased consistency of the manabase, I think both the 5-color Silence and 4-color discard versions are valid depending on the meta. For example, 5-color might be better on MTGO with the release of LEDs, or if Miracles continues to be popular.