I would say that the Miracle player probably should(not necessarily would) fire off the brainstorm in their mainphase. The hand is land light and in order to have the best chance for a second land is to wait until after the draw phase to use the fetchland and then mainphase brainstorm if no land was drawn. Then again many players knee jerk cast Brainstorm at eot no matter what the situation is, especially with "extra" brainstorms in hand.
So with that in mind, I would cast the Ad Nauseum in response to the fetch if the opponent decides to go that route. If the opponent doesn't use the fetch eot then I would simply wait until the end of their upkeep to cast Ad Nauseum because it would be more advantageous to use it at this time rather than in our mainphase. And waiting until the opponents mainphase or eot seems like a bad time to use because a top decked land and/or FoW could screw things up.
Recently played a near 80 torunament went 5-2 Great with the Primer list (-2 Surgical+1Xantid+1Tropical) , 3 of us could go for the Top8, only 1 passed...! and played vs 2 Death and Taxes and easily won:
I opted by the -3Silence +1CoV,+1Tropical+1T.Seize side plan in both games NOTE: don't take EtW out!, and the fact is that even it didn't matter as you will just win before shit lands EtW +Therapy is key. so just don't worry. I remember in one game playing a Tropical, but that was a game that was lost, I needed to take him twice the Thalia in one game!.
Lem I played also vs Elves, the opponet played a strange creature that was like a Pyrostatic Pillar but made 6 damage and for all sorcerys! also I needed to diminihing once, won anyway!
I feared a Super Strange Standstill match up which I lost, I swear absolutly inevitable, I just didn't draw silence and therapy in one game and was death with 2 snares, shit happens.the other game jusst was exteriped the Infernals.... and putted in Tendrils!!! and anyway just didn't see any f*** B.W. - both games with Standstill in play!
+1 on the game plan about Fetch EoT into A.N., I just had passed the turn as quick as possible. maybe the opponent heredates the inertia impposed by your suddent Pass The Turn! and their Excesive number of brainstorms just burn!! Joke.
Togores Paisano 5-2 with TES in that So awfull Spanish meta!! +1 to Storm, I promise to win any LML with TES. please Togores join me to get this Goal!
I have a Jedy padawan which is going to go to GP Paris.... he will go with TNT (ANT 3-Burning) 80% sure... and not sure if i could convice him to go with TES... it is sad to say that we both think it is better to go with 3 Burning ANT, althought I'd go with TES!
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ANT seems to be slower, but more resilient/inevitable. Is that the reason why it overall places higher? Are there just a large population that run the deck? ANT was listed in the top 10 on TC and TES sits around 25-26. I've played both versions and prefer TES. Any thoughts?
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
- Albert Einstein
@pelicanudo
The last round I was watching you vs the gw deck. what u did?
I rethink meber going and u had 2 sol lands tropical a mox on blue a infernal in grave, 2dr and and bw in hand.
what u did?
u just ripped the land that turn and turn before u had gone for infernal into another dr. I would have gone that last turn for diminishing and gamble on the next turn.
But I think with that u had u wished for pif and won? I could not evaluate it right cuuase you have your graveyard closed. Me playing Storm (and any deck have all my grave always open just to have complete and perfect information but you dont.
So was the pif enought or you went for the diminishing anyway?
My thought is that TES just gets to be faster than Hatebears which is awesome, because hatebears are a bitch. Being able to go goblin rape mode is great as well. The only thing that I wished in my matchups that I really had was maybe the 13'th land. Maybe. Tropical Island was bad for me on the weekend. Meh. Probably just variance.
I don't really see how there is a lack on context. Do you mean "how did he act in games 1-2?" If so, just assume he would be playing his deck as optimally as possible vs ours. EDIT: yeah, you don't know your exact hand, but im fairly certain there is no hand that can both t1 AN where you decide not to when seeing that hand. Please correct me if I am flawed in my thinking.
In my own opinion, I think its definitely correct to pass the turn and upkeep the AN if our opp doesn't cash in a brainstorm. We give up very little as our opponent cannot play both a 2 mana hate bear and a land this turn regardless of what he does.
Any other thoughts?
There's a few different reasons why people seem to play ANT more, the two that stick out for me are:
a) TES is a far more complicated deck, there's often multiple lines after casting a burning wish so choosing a target can be complicated (also depends on your information).
b) ANT is probably slightly better in the tempo match-up because it doesn't care as much about soft counters (once you have thresh-hold the deck literally shits black mana), and because its slightly more fetch-oriented mana-base allows you to survive against wasteland.
I think Lemnear and Bryant could probably give you a more detailed reason as to why ANT is seem more commonly, but that's how i see it
You don't need any approval of us as you all are absolutely right. At the BoM there were at least 6-times more ANT players than TES; Epic Storm is much more complicated than the streamlined ANT decks with only PIF/Spell-Chain(/Ad Nauseam) as kill-traits, which is appealing for storm Newcomers; ANT is a control-players Combo deck (possibly better suited for the longer game); more stable in Tempo-metagames for the reasons you all stated;
de nada :)
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Hey storm troopers!
One short question regarding the Surgical Extraction slots in the SB: I also noticed that Dredge and Reanimator got more popular within the last months and agree that these slots makes sense. On the other hand are other decks like D&T / S&T nearly everywhere at the moment - so I thought about splitting the 2x SE slot into 1x SE + 1x Karakas.
I know that Karakas used to be on this list a few years ago (and got kicked out)... but wouldn't it be more flexible it the latest meta against reanimator, elves, D&T and S&T - than just a Surgical Extraction? Ok, it doesn't really help against Dredge - but makes other MUs stronger (and gives an additional mana / wasteland target)
Appreciate your feedback,
J0n
Karakas answers Thalia but not phyrexian revoker, spirit I the laberanth, cannonist, and honestly it doesn't answers griselbrand because it does nothing against the counter magic that they are able to draw in response to the activation of karakas. They can jam multiple fatties in the board on the following turn rendering karakas useless. Surgical is more flexible because it can pull the forces or griselbrands out of the reanimator players deck. Also with the main deck running four cabal therapy these days makes the match up against death and taxes much smother and not nearly as tight as it once was.
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So I just played some matches against a friend of mine. He’s playing BUG Delver, just for the sake of my testing against that matchup. I made some extensive notes just to put them up for discussion. We act like we don’t know what we’re playing against beforehand.
Game 1:
I’m on the draw and he keeps his seven. I keep these 7:
Gemstone Mine
Cabal Therapy
Cabal Therapy
Dark Ritual
Gitaxian Probe
Ad Nauseam
Brainstorm
He leads with Underground Sea into Deathrite Shaman. I draw a Silence and probe(18) him to pinpoint a cabal therapy or possibly drawing a Dark Ritual. I see a hand of 2 Brainstorm, Ponder, FoW and a Goyf and draw a third Cabal Therapy. Mine into Therapy naming Brainstorm, go.
He now has Ponder, Fow and Goyf left and my hand contains 2 Therapy, AN, DR, Silence and Brainstorm.
He draws a Wasteland and uses it to demolish my Gemstone Mine. He eats it with his Deathrite Shaman and taps his Underground Sea to summon a Tarmogoyf (3/4).
I draw a ponder and pass the turn. He draws a card and attacks with Goyf (15) before passing the turn. He now has 3 cards in hand with two of them being Fow and Ponder.
I draw an Infernal Tutor for the turn. End of turn Deathrite Shaman eats my Therapy (13), to which I discard another and pass the turn.
He draws his card for turn, attacks with the lhurgoyf (10) and passes the turn. I draw ponder, his Deathrite Shaman eats a probe(8) and I discard the Ponder before passing the turn. He draws (5 cards in hand now), thoughtseizes my Ad Nauseam (18) and attacks with his whole team (4) before passing the turn. I have no outs left and I scoop them up.
Game 2:
On the play I keep this 7, which is on the edge of a mulligan:
Infernal Tutor
Rite of Flame
Rite of Flame
Infernal Tutor
Gitaxian Probe
Silence
Bloodstained Mire
He keeps his seven as well and I start of with a Mire. He draws and plays Misty Rainforest, cracks it(19) for an Underground Sea into Deathrite Shaman and says go.
I draw Silence for the turn and cast Gitaxian Probe (18) to get a second land or a cantrip. I look at his remaining 6: Delver, Thoughtseize, Force of Will, Verdant Catacombs, Misty Rainforest and Tropical Island. I draw ponder, crack (17) my fetch for a Volcanic Island and cast Ponder. I look at Brainstorm, Rite of Flame and Chrome Mox. In the face of Thoughtseize this is not going to cut it. I shuffle and draw a Brainstorm. Go. (EDIT: -> I should have kept these Ponder-cards to Brainstorm next turn)
He draws a Wasteland which eats my Volcanic Island. He Thoughtseizes (17) me, taking my brainstorm and uses Deathrite Shaman (Volc. Island) to cast a Delver before passing the turn.
I draw Lotus Petal and pass the turn. At this rate my hand contains Lotus Petal, 2x Infernal Tutor, 2x Rite of Flame, 2x Silence. His hand is FoW, Catacombs, Rainforest and Tropical Island. In his turn Delver stays a 1/1, draws his card, plays a Misty Rainforest and attacks with Delver (16) before passing the turn.
I draw LED and play Lotus Petal before passing the turn. End of turn his Shaman eats a brainstorm from my graveyard (14).
In my opponents turn his Delver remains a 1/1, he doesn’t fetch which indicates a Wasteland or a blue creature as pitch-material for FoW. He plays Verdant Catacombs, attacks with his Delver (13) and passes the turn.
I draw a Lotus Petal and play it. I now have 2 Infernal Tutor, 2 Silence, 2 Rite of Flame and 1 LED in hand, with 2 Lotus Petal in play. I can’t play around Daze, nor Force of Will, which I know he still has. I pass the turn as his Shaman eats a ponder (11).
His Delver flips because of a Brainstorm, draws the Brainstorm and attacks with his Insectile Aberation (8).
I draw Chrome Mox for the turn and have the possibility to play around Force of Will. My board is 2x Lotus Petal and my hand is: 2x Infernal Tutor, 2x Silence, 2x Rite of Flame, LED, Chrome Mox. I crack petal for a Silence and he Dazes returning an Underground Sea to his hand. I can now gamble on him not having the blue card for FoW, but I suspect a Delver/TNN from one of the drawphases. I still have 1 turn left. End of turn he eats my Silence with his Shaman (6).
He draws his card for turn and attacks with his 3/2 (3), play Underground Sea, go.
I draw Cabal therapy and cast a Rite of Flame of the Lotus Petal, which meets a FoW pitching a TNN from his side. GG.
Any tips regarding those games? I will type out a few more of those, which will hopefully be a little less depressing. :P
Tom
In game 2, I wonder what your friend would have done, if you started with Chrome mox (IT), sac petal, cast RoF ... would he still Daze? If not, a casted Silence afterwards is a win.
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I won on 3rd match up putting exact 20 gobs flashbacking therepy,
Related to what you had done, I disagree, reasoning:
I had in hand finally 2D.R. and the PiF (instead of DimRet.), the opponent finally ripped my lonely land so I had left 1 more land, on next turn opponent can draw Wasteland Or Rishadan Port, - exactly occurred the first thing, leading me with 0 land, so casting 2 Blue mana was a this point not posible -expected, I didn't draw LED yet, so the unique posible way was to draw land into 2D.R. plus LED red into PiF, even this way was a lost game anyway. I just wasn't able to win fast and combating hate was infficient that time.
EDIT: I see some people writing the cards when they look at the opponent's hand instead of memorizing the possible tree of possibilityes a single card in hand can generate is such a way that you do not memorize the card itself or the name of the card, you'll evaluate a tons of posible plays for each card looked and this is more than enough... thats a good memory exercise and you'll notice you don't even need to write the cards or have the graveyard un-closed. Anyway thanks for the advice!
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So the line would be:
Board: 2x LP
Hand: IT, IT, Sil, Sil, RoF, RoF, Mox, LED
Mox (IT), RoF (crack LP) (RR) (daze is loss, Fow is win), Sil (crack LP) (FoW is win, Daze leaves me with just R+B+LED+RoF which produces +RR -> win), RoF (RRRR), LED, IT (crack LED), Empty for 14-18 goblins which is not enough OR AN from 6 life with nothing floating.
Anyway! Thanks for seeing this line, Lemnear.
The idea of playing the Mox and the RoF first is to make the impression that mana is no Chokepoint and make him NOT casting Daze before the Silence is on the stack.
You won't be able to cast Ad Nauseam successfully here needing 6 mana + Wish + IMS within flips for 6 Life. Before my first coffee today it looks like there is no decent solution other than grapeshooting the board :(
The starting hand was f'ugly. I hate it if Rituals and Tutors don't fit. In game 1 against an unknown opp, you MIGHT consider slow rolling with your Therapies after seeing BUG tempo deck (Thx to Probe) (could not be Shardless because of the Ponder imo), and rather keep mana for a Brainstorm open in case of Discard or Wasteland (He had FoW too so this sucks regardless I fear). There was no mistake made; just a line to consider here
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I figured Wasteland was the only thing that could blow me out at that point. However, Brainstorm would have been a way to generate a potential T2 protected kill or T2 rip hand apart + T3 protected kill. I thought choking him of Brainstorms and next turn choking of counter magic would have been better. There is a lure in knocking 2 Brainstorms out of your opponents hand, I guess.
I played 4 more games, which I will post later during the day. Today I will test post-board games against BUG Delver. I know the sideboard usually has 3 Golgari Charm which, backed up with 4 ponder and 4 brainstorm, pretty much makes the main-deck EtW useless. I'm opting sideboarding Swarms because of BUG Delvers lack of hate against it (except for the 2mana instants) and possible Therapy-Flashback-meat. Other than that I can see myself boarding the Thoughtseize for a Therapy and boarding in a Pyroblast. Any tips on sideboarding?
Also, I will test the Death 'n Taxes matchup today and will post the coverage here.
Tom
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