[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[PartyMonster]

Thank you.


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[Lemnear]

An opinion by which someone will blame me:
I find 0 sense playing basics in a TES build.

I'm not sure if Lem agrees, but playing 2 basics in a build with 13 lands is beeing very optimistic.
To compress the deck you need to play polivalent lands.

Just my opinion.

Even of it has absolutely no relevance if I agree, I do in this particular case, because I consider this deck working on full 3 colors in it's base unlike ANT which is totally fine on UB as long as it can generate somehow a sole red mana for the PIF loop. ANTs manabase would look a lot different if PIF would cost double red, a combination of mana we need more often (and thus run Rite of Flame) not only because of Wish -> EtW but because of fishing PIF from the Sideboard and other scenarios. I'm not a big fan of limiting myself by running Basics "just" because of the presence of Wasteland. We increased the number of Lands over the years just for surviving against a Wasteland and /or Daze

I keep my philosophy, to rather lose and replace a land than limiting myself colorwise for the Virtual advantage of Wasteland "only" producing colorless mana

[Bryant Cook]

Even of it has absolutely no relevance if I agree, I do in this particular case, because I consider this deck working on full 3 colors in it's base unlike ANT which is totally fine on UB as long as it can generate somehow a sole red mana for the PIF loop. ANTs manabase would look a lot different if PIF would cost double red, a combination of mana we need more often (and thus run Rite of Flame) not only because of Wish -> EtW but because of fishing PIF from the Sideboard and other scenarios. I'm not a big fan of limiting myself by running Basics "just" because of the presence of Wasteland. We increased the number of Lands over the years just for surviving against a Wasteland and /or Daze

I keep my philosophy, to rather lose and replace a land than limiting myself colorwise for the Virtual advantage of Wasteland "only" producing colorless mana

The problem I see with this argument is that Basic Island & Swamp are competing for the slot of Bayou and a single fetchland. We're not trading red sources for basics, we're trading Bayou at the cost of a sideboard slot - that's the real issue I see. Also, I think it's sort of tough to argue about needing different colors of mana when you often advocate colorless lands.

[bigbobbobber]

Just got back from the weekly Legacy event and tried out Overmaster. Turns out, Duress is a lot better against Bloodmoon and Chalice. The card draw in my few games i cast it was neutral. I guess being able to strip them of pretty much anything is better than drawing a card that will just get discarded to LED.

[Bryant Cook]

Not shocked by the results of Overmaster. It wasn't a new find, it's been recommended more than a handful of times.

I played in a 12 person weekly last night, not making top 2 at 3-1. My loss was to Reanimator, even with two Surgical Extraction. I won game one, but couldn't close with my sideboarded hate (I never drew Xantid Swarm or Surgical either game). In the last round I beat Sneak & Show, he had three Leyline of Sanctity in his sideboard, luckily he didn't draw any in his opener game two as I cut Void Snare right before the event for Surgical Extractions.

In these two match-ups I tried something a little different, I sided out the basics as it's a match-up where we don't need consistency - we need speed. -2 Basics -1 Chrome Mox/Ponder(s)/Empty the Warrens for Bayou and Xantid Swarm/Surgical. (I didn't bring in Surgical against S&T)

I never had the opportunity to play against a fair deck with Wasteland to see how the results of the basics.

[Lemnear]

The problem I see with this argument is that Basic Island & Swamp are competing for the slot of Bayou and a single fetchland. We're not trading red sources for basics, we're trading Bayou at the cost of a sideboard slot - that's the real issue I see. Also, I think it's sort of tough to argue about needing different colors of mana when you often advocate colorless lands.

A fetch can produce all colors of mana, but drawing an Island instead does not. Bayou vs. basic is pretty much the same value preboard. My issue is that basics make not only questionable openers more likely, but are too alluring to fetch early because you have Wasteland in the back of your head and unless your opponent indeed has, you needlessly limited yourself for the Rest of the game. I'm very careful with including Safety Net options which can bite your ass. I'm willing to swallow the pill of losing a land here and there with 17 IMS in my deck.

I advocate for the Sol Lands in place of the Moxen because the Artifacts do not guarantee to provide a mana in the right color anyways. The most likely Situation, in which they produce on-color combo-mana, is if you have additional Wishes/Tutors/discard to imprint. The purpose of the Sol Lands is still a different one than colorfixing. I don't want to run into a situation of Island, Mox, Probe, RoF, Ponder, discard, Wish. That would give me a chill.

[Bryant Cook]

A fetch can produce all colors of mana, but drawing an Island instead does not. Bayou vs. basic is pretty much the same value preboard. My issue is that basics make not only questionable openers more likely, but are too alluring to fetch early because you have Wasteland in the back of your head and unless your opponent indeed has, you needlessly limited yourself for the Rest of the game. I'm very careful with including Safety Net options which can bite your ass. I'm willing to swallow the pill of losing a land here and there with 17 IMS in my deck.

I advocate for the Sol Lands in place of the Moxen because the Artifacts do not guarantee to provide a mana in the right color anyways. The most likely Situation, in which they produce on-color combo-mana, is if you have additional Wishes/Tutors/discard to imprint. The purpose of the Sol Lands is still a different one than colorfixing. I don't want to run into a situation of Island, Mox, Probe, RoF, Ponder, discard, Wish. That would give me a chill.

The value of having a virtually indestructible mana source in several match-ups outweighs the downside of the one in fifty odds that you draw a basic Island and can't cast anything else. When fetching for a basic, you need to evaluate your hand. If the hand requires all three colors on the following turn which is turn 2, you may want to consider searching for a non-basic land. But on the same note, turn one Basic Swamp into Duress against RUG Delver will allow a turn two win through their Wastelands. I just don't see a real downside to the basics at the moment other than the cost of a sideboard Bayou.

Chrome Mox doesn't need to produce red, your fetchlands can search for a Volcanic and the mox can provide a secondary color. It's very easy to dismiss things in a vacuum, but actual gameplay is very different.

[Togores]

Hello folks yesterday I won a 31 ppl event with tes. Here a short report.

2-0
Bugw with lingering and therapy
G1 I just make 14 tokens in a moment and win.
I dont see white i side nothing
And the He plays a meddling and I had sided out the emtpy due yo jim palying golgary and explosives (i saw ruins).
He asumes I sidded decay. And I burry with bs all my burning so that he sees that i have mana and infernal because I had therapy. He then end up sacrificing the mage before drawing another guy. And I won not so much later.

2-1 foodchain
G1 i go off
G2 he combos and bounces all woth tidespout tiran.
I have nothin in field and lethal field in the oposite.
My hand is:
Volcanic
Underground
Infernal
Led
Rite of flame
So if i draw a petal or so I win because he is hellbend
Draw land gg
G3 xantid plus decay his foodchain is game.

2-1
Ug cloudpost
I know what he plays and keep a slow hand but i kill hom turn 3-4
He plays. Chalice on 0
He want to play anothrr on 0 but notes that it gets countered. I therapy he brainstorm and i note he keeps the chalice. I name it.
He had 2 chalice on top.
So chalice for one.
My hand now eas gutaxians led petal so with 2 lands I burning for empty. And he plays chalice on 2 next turn and Dont draw 2 lands I need and end up loosing to titans and so.
G3 decay a chalice go of win.

2-0 miracles
G1 duress and going off he bs but dosnt find a fow on tunr 3.
G2 i go of againt anothrr bs. He dosnt find for but finds amothrr bs so he now fetches bs and find fow.
I have 2 led 2 lands.
He has pierce.
I draw infernal. He was taped. Because of playing top.
And has 2 lands.
I now he has pierce and a white tutor. So i gamble a lot when I draw infernal (im sure i played bad here)
I go sure of myself for infernl crack led on red and black and he tutors for counterbalance. Then he thinks a lot of if he looks with his mana or pierces. If he pierces i loose. But he knows i know about pierce so he think i could play empty for 3 and he has no explosives or terminus in deck.
So he looks finds no fow and i nauseam him to dead.

2-0 esper blade
G1 he mulls to 4 keeping nemesis, seize, swamp and another non blue card.
I have:
Gitaxian
2 lands
2 leds
1 rof
1 ritual
So i keep
I start gitaxian into gitaxian into petal and pass
He seizes me and takes a led i draw infernal go for it without cracking something. He draw fow and then A cuple turns latter i wish for pif to get card advanthe im able to recover and win with infernal with led into ritual into pif flashback and there he flyes.
G2 he start land go.
I gitaxian and have strong hand without tutor. I see explosives, 2 counters, fluster, vendilion. And he donst have a second land. He draws one and plays explosives for 0. I draw play land go. T3 i draw infernal. Play third land and duress fluster proof he missplays and counters it so i just go petal, rituals, led infernal gg.

So wining is nice.

Thoughts
I never got wastelanded wich is strange.
I never wished for seize
I wished for infenral a cuple times
I only did empty one time (round1) and sidded it a lot.
I thought what what would happens if x land where a basic. I think was not really good.
Xantid was boarded one time vs cloidpost but after seeing so much artifact hate i boarded one out.
Massacre was never used.
I wished on time for piroclasm but nevrr got to use it because it was not relevant anymore.
2-3 moxen was sided a lot of time out. Vs control decks i sidded like 2 mox 1 empty for 3 decay. Or if empty was good 3 mox for 3 decay.

So liked the list. Here it is:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty rainforest
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bayou

3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam

3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Void Snare
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Infernal tutor

Tomorrow I have mothly legacy event idk if ant or tes is better. Will se what i decide (there is more controlish meta and sdt and the ability to grind may seem better).
Keep on stormers

[Pelikanudo]

@Togores:

Good luck in the 1st 2015 LML Madrid, I won't be able to assist... so please play TES and win the tournament for me.
Remember you have 0 Top 8 with TES in the LML, me 2 (could have been 3.... because of you!). I recognize it is difficult to Top8 in LML with TES, but thats the beauty of playing TES, it is just more challenging than playing with ANT...

[Togores]

May be more chalenging. But i wanna win and decide what deck is better for it.
Also I have 2 tops there with ant. I just played last year one time tes. And luck was not on my side.
Lets see what I sleeve tomorrow.

[Lemnear]

Thoughts
I never got wastelanded wich is strange.
I never wished for seize
I wished for infenral a cuple times
I only did empty one time (round1) and sidded it a lot.
I thought what what would happens if x land where a basic. I think was not really good.
Xantid was boarded one time vs cloidpost but after seeing so much artifact hate i boarded one out.
Massacre was never used.
I wished on time for piroclasm but nevrr got to use it because it was not relevant anymore.
2-3 moxen was sided a lot of time out. Vs control decks i sidded like 2 mox 1 empty for 3 decay. Or if empty was good 3 mox for 3 decay.

Congratz. I consider this tournament the very first sign of what to expect for the near future and I'm not surprised to see Emrakul/Griselbrand.dec, SFM.dec and Miracles here. I predicted that BUG Delver/Team America will join them to create the Top 4 of the forseeable metagame in the next weeks. Therefore I'm unsure if we have to expect a serious Wasteland-Penetration and have to react. I only use the SB discard against slow control decks and as boarding slot in place of the EtW against Storm, so maybe I should finally shave it myself. In terms of EtW, we need to watch the metagame if the x/1 hate remains even after Pyromancer with the predictable return of TNN. I suspect we have to deal with hatebears and especially Meddling Mage more frequently from now on; if Massacre (or a wishable answer at all) remains a to-go slot is up for discussion (EE, huh? ;P). I share the Observation about boarding Moxen and EtWs in most matches and therefore have no intention to return those cards to my Maindeck.

P.S.: Picking TES just because it's more challenging is nonsense, Peli. Rodrigo will pck the storm variant which is best fitting for the metagame he expects.

P.P.S.: Good luck for 2morrow. Drop a line here if you find the time ;P

Edit: If the Penetration of Fatty.dec is going to spike because of Blade and Miracles, I'm about to consider running Bribery again.

[Pelikanudo]

P.S.: Picking TES just because it's more challenging is nonsense, Peli. Rodrigo will pck the storm variant which is best fitting for the metagame he expects.

.

For me at least has sense, I play magic as a hobby and see ANT a more plain deck with less options, and definately less funny, I remeber my boss talking to me in terms of Toys instead of Work...
likely for the next torunament I try Solidarity as example.

Rodrigo, last year I played 3 times TES, reaching 2 top8 and 1 YOU didnt allowed to reach the 3rd, I won't forget this...that's among others a difference between you and me. I really enjoy the part of just playing Magic, I just hate the part that makes people have such ambition to just win...

I wonder why Bryant usually never plays ANT... sure he says is a worse deck... Joke.

[Togores]

For me playing and and tes makes the same fun. So then I just have to select if i wanna to play more. Because i enjoy more burning wish and fast nauseams or i wanna to grind games. Also wich deck is better for each meta.

[Bryant Cook]

I did some testing versus UWr Stoneblade today (3-1 in total matches). The basics were awesome versus absolutely awesome and never once was I color screwed. Finally some testing against a deck with Wastelands.

[Lemnear]

For me at least has sense, I play magic as a hobby and see ANT a more plain deck with less options, and definately less funny, I remeber my boss talking to me in terms of Toys instead of Work...
likely for the next torunament I try Solidarity as example.

Rodrigo, last year I played 3 times TES, reaching 2 top8 and 1 YOU didnt allowed to reach the 3rd, I won't forget this...that's among others a difference between you and me. I really enjoy the part of just playing Magic, I just hate the part that makes people have such ambition to just win...

I wonder why Bryant usually never plays ANT... sure he says is a worse deck... Joke.

The idea of tuning the deck to "win" is that keeps the thread and deck alive ;D

[redhamjack]

Hey guys. I wound up getting 2nd today at our monthly tourney. 34 people showed up. 6 rounds of Swiss.

R1 v Elves. I combo t2 both games.
R2 v Chalice Merfolk. Game 1 he lands a t2 chalice at 1. Gogo main deck cabal ritual into a lethal adnauseum. G2 I'm faster and discard his action.
R3 I beat my buddy on lands.
R4 I beat sneak and show. G1 I win quickly after empty plus cabal therapy leaves him with only lands. When I showed in an Xantid to his Grizzle g2 he knew it was done. Unfortunately my ad naus misses and we go to G3. I don't miss twice.
R5&6 double draw.

Top 8 I played my R1 elves opponent again. T2 him twice again.

Top 4 I played BW control (discard, small pox, etc) goblins wins g1, g2 I'm faster than his t3 lilly.

I lost in finals to URW. He had double meddling Mage G3. I lost G1 to delver and all of the permission spells.

I was running a version similar to what I ran before. 12 lands, SB Bayou, but I did switch out gemstone for swamp/island. I was never color screwed and the flexibility was nice in a couple of the match ups. I'll have to keep testing this.

I'm still tinkering with my SB, but I'm not liking Pyroclasms. I just usually want massacre or nothing, and revealing them to Ad Naus sucks. I'm not sure REB would have been much better.


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[Lemnear]

I'm still tinkering with my SB, but I'm not liking Pyroclasms. I just usually want massacre or nothing, and revealing them to Ad Naus sucks.

Why is this the case? Double Meddling Mage looks like a victim to Pyroclasm.

[redhamjack]

I agree. Except I never found them naturally. I only saw one when I was mid ad naus and looking for a led or wish. I just think they're redundant. A burning wish for massacre would have done the same thing G3, except once I found the red source, the Mage was already naming Wish.

Maybe I need to test with Pyroclasm more and against a broader meta, but it felt unnecessary today. For example against elves g2 I went off with it in hand t2 instead of taking the 4 for 1.

I'm considering running a sb discard spell so I can go up to 7 in the main, plus running another Xantid in the board.


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[Togores]

Usualy when you play basics and sb bayou what land you side out for fitting the bayou? The island or the swamp? May be none and just go up 14 lands? Both and go to 12 lands?
I think the swamp is the obvius answer but i dont know.

[Lemnear]

I agree. Except I never found them naturally. I only saw one when I was mid ad naus and looking for a led or wish. I just think they're redundant. A burning wish for massacre would have done the same thing G3, except once I found the red source, the Mage was already naming Wish.

Maybe I need to test with Pyroclasm more and against a broader meta, but it felt unnecessary today. For example against elves g2 I went off with it in hand t2 instead of taking the 4 for 1.

I'm considering running a sb discard spell so I can go up to 7 in the main, plus running another Xantid in the board.


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In games 2 & 3 against anything that is running Medding Mage, the Wizards comes down on Burning Wish, rendering Massacre pointless, which primary has it's use to break free from creature-based locks in game 1s and against non-blue White matchups (D&T, Maverick, etc.). This means that you are required to run MB solutions to MM in any case, no matter if those are named Decay, Lightning Bolt, Pyroclasm, Engineered Explosives, Pyroblast, etc.