[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[wonderPreaux]

I think there's a real failure with how people understand the functionality of these sideboard slots. If you're siding in Grapeshot, Void Snare, Pyroclasm and Thoughtseize you're not siding in Bayou and Abrupt Decay. I rarely side in Decay unless it's against Miracles or some sort of Chalice/Prison type deck. I prefer the first selection of cards against decks like Maverick or Death and Taxes because it's not as taxing on our manabase.

As for Peter's comments, I disagree completely. I've been on the basics for a while now and very, very rarely have color issues - honestly, I can only think of a single scenario in the last few months and I play quite a bit. Siding in Pyroclasm and Grapeshot do not effect the manabase, fetching for Volcanic, even if it does get wasted leaves you with over 11-13 initial red mana sources still in the deck.

I remember that Timo guy who ran TNT packing a bunch of Inquisition of Kozileks in his board, they hit creatures and also allowed him extra discard in control matchups. We could do some sort of setup of Thoughtseize + IoKs + Void Snare + Grapeshot for people who are really concerned over their manabase. (Obligatory plug about how Engineered Explosives wipes out Hatebears other than Teeg and does it all off basics...)

Has anyone noticed a significant gain or loss from playing 4 Tutor main and 2 C. Mox main? I hadn't gotten around to testing it yet, but I'm thinking of trying to free up a sb slot.

[Lemnear]

I think there's a real failure with how people understand the functionality of these sideboard slots. If you're siding in Grapeshot, Void Snare, Pyroclasm and Thoughtseize you're not siding in Bayou and Abrupt Decay. I rarely side in Decay unless it's against Miracles or some sort of Chalice/Prison type deck. I prefer the first selection of cards against decks like Maverick or Death and Taxes because it's not as taxing on our manabase.

As for Peter's comments, I disagree completely. I've been on the basics for a while now and very, very rarely have color issues - honestly, I can only think of a single scenario in the last few months and I play quite a bit. Siding in Pyroclasm and Grapeshot do not effect the manabase, fetching for Volcanic, even if it does get wasted leaves you with over 11-13 initial red mana sources still in the deck.

i doubt anyone is mixing Pyroclasm and Decay for postboard games. It's all about getting to 3 IMS (and likely a volcanic among them) to just cast a pyroclasm against Thalia/Wasteland/Port. On paper, this reads soooo bad compared to Massacre, Dread of Night or even Disfigure that I really begin to wonder if spot-removal (preferable black ones) would not do the trick as well at the current metagame state and density of hatebears, especially paired with a rough sweeper like Massacre in the board in case stuff piles up (like Thalia + Canonist/Mother of Runes)

[Bryant Cook]

I remember that Timo guy who ran TNT packing a bunch of Inquisition of Kozileks in his board, they hit creatures and also allowed him extra discard in control matchups. We could do some sort of setup of Thoughtseize + IoKs + Void Snare + Grapeshot for people who are really concerned over their manabase. (Obligatory plug about how Engineered Explosives wipes out Hatebears other than Teeg and does it all off basics...)

Has anyone noticed a significant gain or loss from playing 4 Tutor main and 2 C. Mox main? I hadn't gotten around to testing it yet, but I'm thinking of trying to free up a sb slot.

You could easily run Inquisitions, we did it originally back when Thalia came into power. The problem was a top decked Canonist or Thalia often ended the game. The benefit to Pyroclasm/Void Snare/Grapeshot is to deal with a creature that slipped through Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy. I'm not worried about the manabase at all, I like it for the most part, just wish there was room for Bayou in the main deck (I don't want to turn this into another discussion).

i doubt anyone is mixing Pyroclasm and Decay for postboard games. It's all about getting to 3 IMS (and likely a volcanic among them) to just cast a pyroclasm against Thalia/Wasteland/Port. On paper, this reads soooo bad compared to Massacre, Dread of Night or even Disfigure that I really begin to wonder if spot-removal (preferable black ones) would not do the trick as well at the current metagame state and density of hatebears, especially paired with a rough sweeper like Massacre in the board in case stuff piles up (like Thalia + Canonist/Mother of Runes)

I don't see why 3 IMS is so difficult, it happens more often than one would think. We play 13 lands, 12 cantrips and then artifact mana if need be. Honestly, I believe you're turning a non-issue into one. Hell, there's even games where we flood from time to time.

[wonderPreaux]

You could easily run Inquisitions, we did it originally back when Thalia came into power. The problem was a top decked Canonist or Thalia often ended the game. The benefit to Pyroclasm/Void Snare/Grapeshot is to deal with a creature that slipped through Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy. I'm not worried about the manabase at all, I like it for the most part, just wish there was room for Bayou in the main deck (I don't want to turn this into another discussion).

With Massacre gone, I feel like the value of the basic Swamp diminishes slightly. Do you think you could get away with basic Island + Bayou with 4 duals and 7 fetches? 4 Misty + 3 Delta even fetches every land

[Bryant Cook]

I want to cut Massacre but am not doing so, it's likely too important as a safety net even though it's rarely used. Even if Massacre was cut, I would still keep swamp - it's essentially indestructible and serves use outside of Massacre.

[Pelikanudo]

I remember that Timo guy who ran TNT packing a bunch of Inquisition of Kozileks in his board, they hit creatures and also allowed him extra discard in control matchups. We could do some sort of setup of Thoughtseize + IoKs + Void Snare + Grapeshot for people who are really concerned over their manabase. (Obligatory plug about how Engineered Explosives wipes out Hatebears other than Teeg and does it all off basics...)

Has anyone noticed a significant gain or loss from playing 4 Tutor main and 2 C. Mox main? I hadn't gotten around to testing it yet, but I'm thinking of trying to free up a sb slot.

Yeah that is me...
I still believe that as example it is a better approach to run more discard vs Renimator than other options (like Xantids) which dilutes the original strategy of TNT which is just discard and win.
Related to D&T well the problem still is the same - as mentioned - a topdecked hatebear.
I haven't noticed that life lost - never will go under 3 C.Moxen...

Apart:
Since I started to play massacre I haven't used it yet, maybe because there is no many D&T by here, I definately cut it for a more polivalent card like pyroclasm and see what happens... I made this change because I encountered a MUD Red match up that I loose becase of this...
I don't plan to bring G.S. to my side as I still don't find any need...

Apart the other day I tested the Grim Tutor in side and again I put D.R. out.... I just will go back to D.R. in side again...: really nothing new...
I found a scenario vs a Land Pox build in which I lost a Round for not having it as I have 9 mana and burning wish - sure this scenario would have been solved having I.T in side but vs so much discard I prefer keeping all threats in base and also wanted to evaluate that shitty G.Tutor...

I wanted to expose my build:

//NAME: TES
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Chrome Mox

4 Gemstone Mine
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta

//Sideboard
SB: 1 bayou
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 duress
SB: 1 pyroclasm
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 3 Xantid
SB: 1 Void snare

Well I believe it is perfect, and now I am finding that I want to include bribery in side but I really don't find room for it... in the last tounaments I really haven't faced so much miracles, but I really don't want to loose vs this archetype...
The other day I made 3-2 in a tournament loosing unbiquely vs Reanimator (I had really bad luck in 1st game and was evaluating if having bribery in side could have save my ass - it in deed had saved my ass) and that Lands Pox build - (I won 1st game and lost the other 2 the second because of 1Sphere of resistence in 1st turn and the 3rd game for not having D.R. in side OR not sided out I.T.)

Well defniately my unique problem is :
I want to make room for bribery but there isn't really anything I want to take out from anything...
so:
- I thought on taking out 3rd duress from base and putting in the bayou. and take 2 gemstones for 2 more fetches...
- take out 1 decay.... really don't want as I'm happy to see 4 vs miracles my lovely and hated deck....
- I really don't find more options...

Opinions?

Edit: Changed to Poll. Delta

[Lemnear]

Cut DimRet or Duress ... pretty easy if you ask me.

P.S.: how is 9 mana and Wish a problem depending on the turn? EtW or PIF (flashback cantrips) should do the trick even without IT/Grim/DimRet in the board. He has two turns to hit tabernacle somehow (of he even runs it because the card is fucking expensive and sees only fringe play)

[Tourach]

@Pelikanudo: None of your fetches can grab the Bayou. Why don't you run Delta?

[Pelikanudo]

Cut DimRet or Duress ... pretty easy if you ask me.

P.S.: how is 9 mana and Wish a problem depending on the turn? EtW or PIF (flashback cantrips) should do the trick even without IT/Grim/DimRet in the board. He has two turns to hit tabernacle somehow (of he even runs it because the card is fucking expensive and sees only fringe play)

Well,

the last 2 match ups I lately lost was vs:
- Pox Lands - note in here opp plays that instant that put lands in play....
- Pox Mono Black

Both of these match ups I won 1st game - no roblem in here with EtW BUT the theory is that is not the best thing yiou can do specially vs Pox Lands
vs Pox lands was because of EtW setting 8 bobs - ok.
vs Pox Mono Black I remember how the game developed and was as folows:
I played 6 gobs not investing too many resources on them - they were destroyed by the single tabernacle at pendrell vale, but I won the game with A.N fnally

The match ups I lost were because:
a 1st turn Sphere of resistance followed by a second S.O,Resstance
Duress hymn and Ratched bomb
not beeing able to cast D.R. as I didn't have it in my side.

there is a fact and it is that for 2nd and 3rd games these archetypes are well prepared for EtW (Ratched bomb or tabernacle or E. Plague or even Ernsring bridge)
so my conclusion is:
- let I.T. in side to beeing able to cast it with 9 mana
- Play D.R.
I think that the 2nd option is the correct one as vs these archetypes I want the most chances to have a threat in my hand or to draw it just because if game passes the 2nd turn you'll be in a position in which you need to maximice the mana to the fullest to play your threats AND EtW is not a solution for the 2nd and 3rd games - yeah my opp. also adapted to me...
Also PiF really is not an option for these archetypes or at least when I played vs these archetytpes I didnt find a way in which PiF had saved my ass...

Related to the bribery, I find it great for reanimator and S&T and when played it some time agon it shined as it is even better than A.N...:
- I dont want either to put I.T. in side vs this archtypes.
- I wan to be as fast as posiible, and bribery allows me this.

What I have found is that D.R. can also acomplishes this role as I usually trend to play 3 xantids and it is still a valid option... but for sure not as good as bribery...
- for example vs reanimator if you have a xantid D.R. is jus great.

call me crazy, but I've been thinking in going back to 2 CoB mana base to play 2 silence 1 duress and play only 2 xantids in my side... and then I'll have my so desired slot for my bribery...

@Tourach: - Corrected.

[Lemnear]

i have no clue why you conclude to run CoB and Silence MB in order to preplace the SB Duress with Bribery.

[Pelikanudo]

i have no clue why you conclude to run CoB and Silence MB in order to preplace the SB Duress with Bribery.

well, I use quite frequently that Duress in the side as B.W. target.

a more detailed explanation:

I want to use 7 disrupion spells and want total 3 or 4 anti senseis effects or anti leyline effects - therefore if I include 1 or 2 silence and use 2 xantids I will stay in 12 lands 1 bayou side and save 1 xantid slot having totaql 2 xantid 2 silence for leyline and miracles match ups.

[Lemnear]

well, I use quite frequently that Duress in the side as B.W. target.

a more detailed explanation:

I want to use 7 disrupion spells and want total 3 or 4 anti senseis effects or anti leyline effects - therefore if I include 1 or 2 silence and use 2 xantids I will stay in 12 lands 1 bayou side and save 1 xantid slot having totaql 2 xantid 2 silence for leyline and miracles match ups.

this does in no way explain why 7 discard main and 3 xantid in the sideboard doesn't make sense for you. A sincere advice is cutting the SB discard which only has value as a replacement for EtW in the storm mirror, due to the fact that if your opponent seriously lets Wish resolve with all the bombs you have in the sideboard, it's pretty damn likely that your opponent doesn't have defense at all and you are able to punish him immediately instead of using three mana total just to see that your opponent has nothing. Bummer. I was bigoted to the SB discard for a pretty long time myself until I realized that pushing for PIF and EtW wielded much more value for putting my opponents into the reactive position.

I'd like to give you an example: Your opponent has FoW in hand which you know about and he lets Wish turn two resolve for whatever reason. If you grab EtW here, he has a tough time to cut you off from 4 mana to just dump the Goblins and push into the red zone with him/her required to find an answer. You lose nothing here as natural EtWs are pretty economic if you feed them with cantrips like Probes and Artifact drops and you can build a finishing Tendrils behind the "red wall" if your opponent is able to answer them. Compare this to fetching a Duress; all you do is trading 1-for-1 and you have created no further trouble for your opponent.

Essentially this is the same plan the old Grim Long and Long Death were executing in Vintage at their time: Throw bombs till your opponent is unable to answer/counter them

[MotleyJu]

A couple more general questions for folks about sideboarding strategy. First, when/why do you bring in cards like Pyroclasm or Void Snare out of the board, rather than just leaving them there as Wish targets? I rarely find myself bringing them in out of the sideboard, but saw people talking about doing so. The one case I can see where it's good is against possible Meddling Mage - is it worth siding in Pyroclasm there so you're not as screwed to Mage naming Burning Wish? Are Mage matchups good for Abrupt Decay (because of uncounterable), or do our other answers get the job done against Mage?

[Lemnear]

A couple more general questions for folks about sideboarding strategy. First, when/why do you bring in cards like Pyroclasm or Void Snare out of the board, rather than just leaving them there as Wish targets? I rarely find myself bringing them in out of the sideboard, but saw people talking about doing so. The one case I can see where it's good is against possible Meddling Mage - is it worth siding in Pyroclasm there so you're not as screwed to Mage naming Burning Wish? Are Mage matchups good for Abrupt Decay (because of uncounterable), or do our other answers get the job done against Mage?

You board Snare and clasm against Hatebear.dec; you don't board Decays against decks running wasteland even if they have Meddling Mage

[Arguru]

Another tournament with TES,another top 8!46 ppl this time,so 6 rd+top 8

Turn 1:reanimator(2:0)

Turn 2:shardless bug(2:1)
Lost g2 because of a topdecked fow

Turn 3:jeskay blade(2:0)

Turn 4:omnitell(0:2)
Really bad draws here

Turn 5:omnitell(2:0)
I had my revenge

Turn 6:BUG delver(ID)

Top 8:jeskay blade(the same ad turn 3 0:2)

G1 I'm on the play so i tried a turn 1 ad nauseam,he had fow
G2 he saw everithing:mm,vendilion,force,flusterstorm,snapcaster,ee...and i kept a risky hand...

About the list:

4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal tutor
1 Empty the warrens

4 dark ritual
4 rite of flame
4 lion's eye diamond
2 chrome mox
4 Lotus petal

4 ponder
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe

4 cabal therapy
3 duress

1 ad nauseam

2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
1 island
1 swamp
4 polluted delta
3 bloodstained mire

//SIDE

1 bayou
3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
1 massacre
1 thoughtseize
1 void snare
1 pyroclasm
1 empty the warrens
1 past in flames
1 Tendrils of agony
1 grapeshot


I think i'll try to cut the chrome mox...i know they make your ad nauseam better,but they are really bad in your hand...there have been situation where I wanted infernal in my sb...and once again,i never used massacre...also i wanted another fetchland in my main all the tournament...so i want to try these changes:
Main
-2 chrome mox -1 infernal
+1 misty rainforest +2 cabal ritual
Side
-1 massacre/grapeshot +1 infernal

Opinions?

[Lemnear]

Tuned in for Max' stream yesterday as I luckily checked my eMail and saw a note from Twitch that he started to stream. Was pretty fun and I apologize for leaving that early (well, it was midnight here) and before Chris was back from dinner. Only thing that killed me was the 40sec delay between the chat and the messages popping up on Max' screen, so all suggestions and stuff rolled in far too late.

In fact I was cursing at several times on the couch with my tablet on my lap, earning me slaps to the back of my head by my GF followed by "Shhhhh! I want to watch Princess Mononoke". :(

should do this again ... sans the slaps

[Alix444]

This might be a newbie question, but when your opening hand has a chrome mox in it, it is basically a 6 card hand in most situations right?

Is it correct to say that it's only in the deck to create better ADs? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Thanks,

[Lemnear]

This might be a newbie question, but when your opening hand has a chrome mox in it, it is basically a 6 card hand in most situations right?

Is it correct to say that it's only in the deck to create better ADs? Or am I thinking about this wrong?

Thanks,

Create initial mana post Ad Nauseam; create quick mana to cast AN/EtW T1/2; remove cards in your hand which block hellbent; etc.

[Asthereal]

I think i'll try to cut the chrome mox...i know they make your ad nauseam better,but they are really bad in your hand...there have been situation where I wanted infernal in my sb...and once again,i never used massacre...also i wanted another fetchland in my main all the tournament...so i want to try these changes:
Main
-2 chrome mox -1 infernal
+1 misty rainforest +2 cabal ritual
Side
-1 massacre/grapeshot +1 infernal

Opinions?

The only alternatives are Simian Spirit Guide and Cabal Ritual. Both have serious disadvantages. I tried a list with 3x Simian Spirit Guide and no Moxen, and it did work -sort of-, but Ad Nauseams did get quite bad, and that proved a problem on multiple occasions. I fear Chrome Mox is a necessary evil, at least as a two-of.

@Max: I didn't consider Lossett's past broadcasts as a Twitch partner privilege. That could indeed be the case.
Maybe I just have to be faster if I want to check out your stream.

[Arguru]

After a bit of testing I concluded that cutting chrome mox was a really bad idea;but I still want the 8th fetchland,so I return to the 8 fetch 2 sea 2 volcanic 1 Bayou manabase.
In this meta basics are not necessary imho,there aren't many wasteland-stifle decks...in this way I also gain a sb slot...