[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[d0nkey]

After a bit of testing I concluded that cutting chrome mox was a really bad idea;but I still want the 8th fetchland,so I return to the 8 fetch 2 sea 2 volcanic 1 Bayou manabase.
In this meta basics are not necessary imho,there aren't many wasteland-stifle decks...in this way I also gain a sb slot...

For what it's worth, I am down to 2 chrome mox. But I probably flip flop on this slot too much. 3 seems like too many for me, and 1 doesn't seem like enough. Yet even with 2 sometimes I have to roll my eyes when I open with both of them. Variance doesn't care about what I want.

[Bryant Cook]

The invitational is almost here, I've updated the OP with the list I'll be playing.

[wonderPreaux]

The invitational is almost here, I've updated the OP with the list I'll be playing.

I think I asked this before, but what drove you to the 3 Mires over the 1-2 misty/mire split from before? you mentioned earlier that you value basic swamp fairly highly, could you expand on that somewhat?

[Bryant Cook]

I think I asked this before, but what drove you to the 3 Mires over the 1-2 misty/mire split from before? you mentioned earlier that you value basic swamp fairly highly, could you expand on that somewhat?

With only 8 Spells in the deck that actually require blue mana, the Island isn't nearly as desirable as the Swamp which gets tapped multiple times and is a combo colored mana. I've considered in the past not even running the Island, but keeping the Swamp (In order to move Bayou to the main).

[wonderPreaux]

With only 8 Spells in the deck that actually require blue mana, the Island isn't nearly as desirable as the Swamp which gets tapped multiple times and is a combo colored mana. I've considered in the past not even running the Island, but keeping the Swamp (In order to move Bayou to the main).

Do you think only having 11 blue sources would bring down the number of keepable hands too much, though?

[Alix444]

Going from 12 to 11 will increase the chance you don’t have a blue source by 3.177%, not counting mox or petal. We should also keep in mind that some hands don’t need any T1 Blue, or T2 for that matter.

[Bryant Cook]

Do you think only having 11 blue sources would bring down the number of keepable hands too much, though?

Thats part of the reason I'm running the Island, the other being that it's Wasteland proof. Honestly, the amount of games where you would open up one land:Island where it's keepable versus one land:Bayou where it's unkeepable is an incredibly small percentage.

[Alix444]

The question is, is an extra sideboard slot worth having to mulligan an extra once in 35-40 matches?

[Bryant Cook]

The question is, is an extra sideboard slot worth having to mulligan an extra once in 35-40 matches?

If this were a vacuum, then your question would make sense. But Island being essentially indestructible has been fairly key in some match-ups like RUG Delver or Death in Taxes.

Honestly, if I were to move the Bayou main, I don't even know what I would add as Needle and Surgical are currently weak in the metagame. You have to look at what you're really gaining compared to what you're losing.

[Pelikanudo]

this does in no way explain why 7 discard main and 3 xantid in the sideboard doesn't make sense for you. A sincere advice is cutting the SB discard which only has value as a replacement for EtW in the storm mirror, due to the fact that if your opponent seriously lets Wish resolve with all the bombs you have in the sideboard, it's pretty damn likely that your opponent doesn't have defense at all and you are able to punish him immediately instead of using three mana total just to see that your opponent has nothing. Bummer. I was bigoted to the SB discard for a pretty long time myself until I realized that pushing for PIF and EtW wielded much more value for putting my opponents into the reactive position.

I'd like to give you an example: Your opponent has FoW in hand which you know about and he lets Wish turn two resolve for whatever reason. If you grab EtW here, he has a tough time to cut you off from 4 mana to just dump the Goblins and push into the red zone with him/her required to find an answer. You lose nothing here as natural EtWs are pretty economic if you feed them with cantrips like Probes and Artifact drops and you can build a finishing Tendrils behind the "red wall" if your opponent is able to answer them. Compare this to fetching a Duress; all you do is trading 1-for-1 and you have created no further trouble for your opponent.

Essentially this is the same plan the old Grim Long and Long Death were executing in Vintage at their time: Throw bombs till your opponent is unable to answer/counter them

Well, I usually take the bombs with burning wish when I'm going to combo this occurs the most of the times and involves investing several resources for this purpose. Even cards like LED means you will invest all resources on it. this is a great difference between Grim Long and TES - the use of permanent accelerators (moxen, etc) and the use of LEDS and Petals.

On the other hand if the opp. plays well usually lets B.Wish resolve as usually this does not represent a threat for him - maybe it is on 1st game, but this game is not the game I want to handle - I want to handle better 2nd and 3rd games.

for sure if the unique card left is B.W. with ton of mana , Opp. will not let it resolve if he has FoW.

I believe that the unique card that allowed us to acomplish such role was T.Cruise, and maybe EtW for 1st games, but not PiF or D.R.or I.T.
There is a fact and it is that if Opp. has Fluster and FoW and if he plays well he will not counter B.W. (in here I remember that Bryant - vs Miracles match up in which that player countered that B.W. when he shouldn't)

Another point is that I've been hating playing 2 volcanics and after some testing I'm happy to returning to silences list which also potentiates my D.R.!
In old era lots of times I finished winning my BUGs opponents via D.R.!

Anyway after some torunaments with this configuration I'll try what you say as also makes sense.

@CabalTherapy:
Well me for example long time ago I use my own TES, maybe I take some opinions from Lem, bahamut or Final Fortune, I would love if by here all will agree but from my perspective, since I started to see such changes like basics - even 2!! and 2 Chrome moxen I just cannot agree with Bryant even if he is the creator of the deck, hell be here there are also physicists and mathematicians whose opinions can have much more value or me than Bryant's!

I think everybody needs to have its own opinion that can be or not the same than others. I think the important thing is to use valid arguments, for example, for me playing TES in such a manner doesn't make sense, I think the current build is just worse than TNT or ANT and its strategy is diluting more and more - for me it is simple if you want to have a better late game just play a different deck which consists at its simplest in more basics, less moxen and more C.Rituals, thats all.

using basics in TES for the unique goal to avoid wasteland is absurd, wasteland existed long time ago and for TES it has not been an issue - did RUG exist 2-1 years ago? - yes, This is a misconception of strategy. I think TES want to handle wasteland the same way as ANT and this is just an error - just play ANT.

Question yourself - Why Bryant never has brought ANT to a tournament? - you know the reason.

as said , just an opinion.

@Question to Bryant:
Bryant, you've been playing TES for so long, why the hell you have never brought ANT to a tournament? it is just curiosity, although I can imagine the reason.

[Lemnear]

Why should you let your opponent know that you have plenty of mana available before you cast Wish if you know your opponent has a FoW? It's all about the mindgame to let him think he has to counter the Wish if you just use it as bait and make your opponent letting Wish resolve just because he thinks your reaching for your SB out of desperation or because he's convinced he can counteract your move for PIF/EtW. You have to use the information you deliver to your opponent for your own advantage. Misinformation is your keyword and without overcommitting you can, in fact, mimic the Grim Long gameplan of grinding your opponent out with threats.

I have a recurring problem to understand your lines of thought. How does a dislike for 2 Volcanics lead to playing Silences other than your undying love for DimRet?

[Bryant Cook]

Played the list I suggested last week at the Invitational, my rounds went as follows:

2-0 Death & Taxes – Two games in a row I put 14 Goblins into play on turn 1.
2-1 Miracles (Michael Majors) – Game one I had a weird situation where I could only make 12 red mana post Ad Nauseam. Played Wish, Played Wish, Empty the Warrens and Grapeshotted him down to 2 so that if he fetched he couldnt Force or shuffle the rest of the game. He didnt find Terminus. Third game, I resolved Ad Nauseam with a counterbalance on the table (one on top), played Decay after and won.
2-0 BUG Delver – Grindy game one where I got him with Past in Flames. Second game it’s turn two, he plays Deathrite holding up a mana. I lay a second land and fetch, he stifles and I play Petal, Ritual, Ritual and Ad Nauseam.
2-0 Reanimator - I mulligan to five, he plays turn one Careful Study. I draw a second Brainstorm, Petal, Brainstorm. Fetch (search for sea), LED, LED, Petal, Brainstorm breaking the two LEDs for RRRBBB and draw Infernal Tutor. Ad Nauseam with the final mana from Petal. The second game I have Xantid and a turn 3 with hand disruption.

(second set of Legacy Rounds)

2-1 BUG Delver (Jim Davis) – Empty the Warrens for 14 against two Tarmogoyfs and a Deathrite, in order to win I had to give him a window where if he draws Decay he wins. He doesnt. Game two, I go to kill him with 1 card in hand and it was the card he drew for turn, it was Stifle. Third game, he mulligans to 4 and I make 18 Goblins on turn 1.
2-0 Reanimator - ETW + Tendrils to finish him off in the first game. The second game is a classic turn one Duress, turn two Ad Nauseam.
0-2 Dredge - He goldfishes me game one. Game two I mulligan to four looking for anything fast. My four is Ritual, Petal, LED, Mire. I play out what I can and pass. My opponent Therapies me, stares at me and says “Dark Ritual”. Couldn’t believe it.
0-2 Dark Maverick - I lose game one to a Thalia on turn two after he leaves up Wasteland turn one. I had an opportunity to Massacre but then Gaddock Teeg came down. Awkward. Game two I mulligan to five on the play, make 12 Goblins which isn’t enough to win through Deathrite Shaman into Stoneforge Mystic.


(6-2 in the Legacy portion of the Invi)

Legacy IQ

2-1 UR Delver - Game one, thought he was on Burn. Made 14 goblins turn one and won. Game two, I sided in hate for Eideleon which wouldve been better as the Duresses I sided out. Third game, I had so much mana (4 Rite of Flames - fourth with a tutor) that I was able to power through a Flusterstorm and make an Emtpy for 16.
0-2 Death & Taxes - The classic Wasteland into Thalia gets me game one. Game two he has a Aether Vial in play with a Revoker, SFM and another hate creature (Cant remember). I void Snare his Vial so that I can Massacre and win. He slides in Cannonist, I attempt to Massacre. I have always been under the assumption that you could still cast one spell after Cannonist as it’s what checks to see if a spell had been cast. Incorrect, I guess it changes the rules of the game and you cannot. I couldve done this a turn earlier but wouldve had to have drawn a Dark Ritual or LED to make up for the mana loss. Because of this I lose.
2-0 Miracles - I don’t remember much other than both games were a slaughter of discard backed by Ad Nauseam.
2-0 UR Delver - I get him to Force of Will a bait spell and then Ad Nauseam. Second game, he plays a Delver on turn one and I play 14 Goblins.
2-1 Shardless - I shred his hand game one and win through two Deathrites with natural storm. Second game I go for a turn three win after two discard spells leaving him with 2 Visions and a blank, the blank was the second Force of Will. Third game, it was a grindy game where PIF got there.
0-2 Lands - I knew my opponent and he traditionally plays Elves, I knew he played lands at the invi but did awful with it. Wasnt sure what he was on. He mulligans to five and plays Forest, go. I tank, the best thing my hand can do is make 14 Goblins because I have wish. He end step puts Tabernacle into play. Awkward. The second game was a long one with a Decay, Wish for Snare and as I’m about to win, I draw the Ad Nauseam for the turn. I need a turn to Brainstorm it back, he crop rotations on my end step to kill me.
2-0 ANT - Both games were funny enough to be won on the back of Cabal Therapy and Goblins. Discard wars with no top decked tutors on his part.
1-2 Lands - I easily win game one with Ad Nauseam. Game two, I come across an awkward situation where if I sided out an Infernal I wouldve won but instead I have to try to win with Past in Flames or Goblins. I go for PIF, he has the Crop Rotation. Third game, I mulligan to five and all my hand can do is make 12 Goblins. I Probe him and can see he has a rotation already, I tank on if it’s worth it. He has a Wasteland and a Loam too. If I had more mana I could now Wish. Infernal. Ad Nauseam but I’m two short. Looking at the gentleman, he didnt seem to be too well off financially based on appearance. I took a stab at thinking he likely didn’t own a Tabernacle and went for it, I was wrong.

Some thoughts on the weekend, I feel like I had some rough breaks in a few match-ups. List felt okay, but I definitely noticed a lack of Chain of Vapor hurting me, Surgical would’ve been good as well. I talked with Royce and settled on the list below:

4 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Island

4 Rite of Flame
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox

4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam

Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Void Snare
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames

Cutting a discard spell from the main is hardly noticeable when we have one in the sideboard to wish for, the extra land in theory takes away some of the threat of Daze in those situations anyway. I’d like to find room for Surgical as there seemed to be a lot of Reanimator, lands (Its just okay here - not sure if it’s even worth siding) and Dredge (wouldve had to play it twice if there wasn’t a repair) there, but the only way I think we could is if we shaved a Xantid (which is good in that match-up anyway, Surgical isnt good versus Omni or Sneak) and then Massacre. This causes me to think the list above may be better.

[Lemnear]

Though with me being on a current MTG sabbatical till the next expansion hitting the stores, I'm baffled that you opt to chop the 4th Therapy but also adding a land (you were pointing me at hellbent problems in the past in regards to running more lands).

I see losses to D&T and Lands, matchups where the Basics were considered a help, but did not end up turning the games in your favor. I'm interrested why the stable mana either wasn't a factor or not an option in these matches, because the conclusion I draw from the read is that "more lands" work better than "Basics" in regards to fighting mana issues caused by opposing gameplans, an idea I discussed a while back.

[Bryant Cook]

Though with me being on a current MTG sabbatical till the next expansion hitting the stores, I'm baffled that you opt to chop the 4th Therapy but also adding a land (you were pointing me at hellbent problems in the past in regards to running more lands).

I see losses to D&T and Lands, matchups where the Basics were considered a help, but did not end up turning the games in your favor. I'm interrested why the stable mana either wasn't a factor or not an option in these matches, because the conclusion I draw from the read is that "more lands" work better than "Basics" in regards to fighting mana issues caused by opposing gameplans, an idea I discussed a while back.

I actually beat ANT one of the games because he couldn't become Hellbent. I don't think adding additional lands into the deck is any sort of benefit, what I'm looking at it as is an opportunity to create more slots in the sideboard. As of right now, I think the deck has very few flexible slots with one of them being the 7th discard spell. If I end up putting the discard spell back in, the one from the sideboard will be leaving. That said, I'm open to other suggestions. I understand that you dislike the basics, but they were great against: Lands, Death and Taxes, BUG Delver and Dark Maverick. I'm not looking to cut them anytime soon.

If the 7th discard spell isn't the slot worth shaving we're looking at:

2nd Chrome Mox - Which will make our Ad Nauseam considerably worse.
4th Infernal Tutor - Moving it to the sideboard, which doesn't actually free up a slot.
Empty the Warrens - Which was great all weekend.
7th fetchland - I don't know if six is too few with 13 lands?
2nd Underground Sea - is the second Sea important when there's a basic Swamp & Bayou left?

Alternatively, you could reconfigure the manabase to the Bayou/Badlands over one second copy of the other two duals.

[Pelikanudo]

Why should you let your opponent know that you have plenty of mana available before you cast Wish if you know your opponent has a FoW? It's all about the mindgame to let him think he has to counter the Wish if you just use it as bait and make your opponent letting Wish resolve just because he thinks your reaching for your SB out of desperation or because he's convinced he can counteract your move for PIF/EtW. You have to use the information you deliver to your opponent for your own advantage. Misinformation is your keyword and without overcommitting you can, in fact, mimic the Grim Long gameplan of grinding your opponent out with threats.

I have a recurring problem to understand your lines of thought. How does a dislike for 2 Volcanics lead to playing Silences other than your undying love for DimRet?

I.m not sure if I understand you well as my English is not as good...

I.ve always hated such a non polivalent land in TES, on one hand.
now That I.m going to try again going back to 2 silence a total of 10 All Colours producers seems okay to me

Well nice to see that Bryant had the same problems vs lands than me!
At least mines now in theory are solved.

Apart, I also disagree on 14 lands 2 C.M. For the same reasons Lem mentions, (lots of the match ups Bryant played seems that 3rd C.M. would have helped because of speed) but I.ve also evaluating taking out 1 disruption spell in order to put bayou main, more fetches and save that so desired side slot


EDIT HAVE you found any good card for TES in that new expansion Lem?

[Lemnear]

I.m not sure if I understand you well as my English is not as good...

I.ve always hated such a non polivalent land in TES, on one hand.
now That I.m going to try again going back to 2 silence a total of 10 All Colours producers seems okay to me

Well nice to see that Bryant had the same problems vs lands than me!
At least mines now in theory are solved.

Apart, I also disagree on 14 lands 2 C.M. For the same reasons Lem mentions, (lots of the match ups Bryant played seems that 3rd C.M. would have helped because of speed) but I.ve also evaluating taking out 1 disruption spell in order to put bayou main, more fetches and save that so desired side slot


EDIT HAVE you found any good card for TES in that new expansion Lem?

Looks like you did not ;)

I'm waiting for the last Expansion to hit the Stores before GP Lille (is it Origins?) to pick my deck and before that I'm not bothering much with cardchoices and stuff for at least my part other than pure theory.

The issue of cutting discard these days is the lack of them in early turns against opposing combo, Counterbalance and shit. I was used to run only 6 in the past with the idea of Wishing for a Duress turn 2 to combo turn 3, but it bites your ass here and there. Discard-on-demand without clogging your hand is a nice concept, but not working if Counterbalance/Chalice/Thorn/S&T lock you out turn 2. that's why I was juggling with up to 8 discard spells in the Main at times if I expected a metagame filled with the beforementioned.

[Pelikanudo]

Looks like you did not ;)

The issue of cutting discard these days is the lack of them in early turns against opposing combo, Counterbalance and shit. I was used to run only 6 in the past with the idea of Wishing for a Duress turn 2 to combo turn 3, but it bites your ass here and there. Discard-on-demand without clogging your hand is a nice concept, but not working if Counterbalance/Chalice/Thorn/S&T lock you out turn 2. that's why I was juggling with up to 8 discard spells in the Main at times if I expected a metagame filled with the beforementioned.

Well, I need to agree...
my 1st games vs c.b. were in deed improved because of having discard instead of Silences, as mentioned, I will test this configuration and see what happens...

I.ve also seen the resurgence of Rug by here

[Star|Scream]

Hi,

Since I've never really played this deck in paper before I have some logistics questions.
Excuse me if they are dumb.

When using pad or paper have you found a really good system to keep storm and mana accurate?
I tried BBBRRR but it gets really cluttered. Any good grids people use? This would
really help since I'm so visual and my handwriting is terrible.

Can you use different sleeves for sideboard sorceries that you would never board in to
keep you from accidentally shuffling them into your deck for the next game/match?

If you make 18 goblins do you actually put 18 goblin token cards onto the battlefield or
use a representation?

When revealing to Ad Nauseam it seems it would be easier for everyone to just verbally count down
rather than writing each life change, and since you haven't passed priority, I assume it's perfectly
legal. Is this how you do it or do you notate each card you flip and your current life total?

Thanks in advance.

[Lemnear]

Hi,

Since I've never really played this deck in paper before I have some logistics questions.
Excuse me if they are dumb.

When using pad or paper have you found a really good system to keep storm and mana accurate?
I tried BBBRRR but it gets really cluttered. Any good grids people use? This would
really help since I'm so visual and my handwriting is terrible.

I write down:
- SR (Schwarzer Ritus aka Dark Ritual) - BBB
- Z (Zwang aka Duress) - BB
- Auge (aka LED) - BB
etc.

so no one gets confused which and how many spells got cast. Mind, I take notes in german as notepads are public info.

Can you use different sleeves for sideboard sorceries that you would never board in to
keep you from accidentally shuffling them into your deck for the next game/match?

doubt this is even legal. I usually shuffle more cards in than I want to board anyways just to not let my opponents know how many cards I boarded as I remove the cards again quickly after and take obvious cards like Decays/Xantids for that procedure. You should know which cards you run in your SB. If you count your SB before presenting your deck and you have less than 15, you should get that something is fishy ;)

If you make 18 goblins do you actually put 18 goblin token cards onto the battlefield or
use a representation?

I use 2-3 dices. Should do the trick in case of blockers and shit for the 2-3 turns you need them.

When revealing to Ad Nauseam it seems it would be easier for everyone to just verbally count down
rather than writing each life change, and since you haven't passed priority, I assume it's perfectly
legal. Is this how you do it or do you notate each card you flip and your current life total?

do announce your current life after each damaging flip. Make a note on your lifepad with the remaining life once you are about to think about mana or playlines. You can continue counting down any time. Make clear to your opponent what is happening so there is not need to grab the pen after each flip

Thanks in advance.

[Bryant Cook]

Hi,

Since I've never really played this deck in paper before I have some logistics questions.
Excuse me if they are dumb.

When using pad or paper have you found a really good system to keep storm and mana accurate?
I tried BBBRRR but it gets really cluttered. Any good grids people use? This would
really help since I'm so visual and my handwriting is terrible.

Can you use different sleeves for sideboard sorceries that you would never board in to
keep you from accidentally shuffling them into your deck for the next game/match?

If you make 18 goblins do you actually put 18 goblin token cards onto the battlefield or
use a representation?

When revealing to Ad Nauseam it seems it would be easier for everyone to just verbally count down
rather than writing each life change, and since you haven't passed priority, I assume it's perfectly
legal. Is this how you do it or do you notate each card you flip and your current life total?

Thanks in advance.

I don't write anything down unless it ends up being an incredibly convoluted turn, by not writing things down you tend to remember how numbers add up and the lines you can take without giving away lines or cards in hand. For example: Two Rite of Flame is RRRR, Ritual is BBB. Seven mana, minus a Tutor is five. Five floating is Ad Nauseam. It's easy math without providing information.

On top of that, at a higher level players tend to look at your life total paper trying to get information based on what you're playing.