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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #6801

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Disfigure seems like a really strong choice for the DNT match ups, I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

  2. #6802
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    Bryant Stuff...
    .
    My thoughts:

    I really think the A.Decay idea vs D&T is awfull:
    - you only play 13 lands and among those you play only 1 basic (having in mind lot of them are fetches it is like playing 12 lands with 3.5 fetches)
    - if Thalia is played you'll be in a bad position to get to play you A.D. as they play 4 Wastelands 4 Ports. - then you'll need to play 1 Swamp 1 C.Mox 1 Destroyable Land to aim this goal.

    I play 4 only to win my So Hated Miracles match up... (will try again 2 Silences and see if they don't get worse so much that 1st games vs this archetype...)

    Good luck about this.

    Related to the manabase:
    Well I strongly disagree in playing 13 lands and only 11 of them producing blue - you need blue to beeing able to set up with cantrips for the next turn to combo off. Me for example playing 12 lands and 12 producing blue have a more consistence at playing cantrips than you in the first turns.

    Related to the I.T. in side:
    As Lem I also disagtree on this:
    I finally stated on the following:
    Even I recognize I loose Side Slots, I just prefer to make B.W. a strong and polivalent Storm Engine - this means playing D.R. and Bribery in Side, BUT absolutly I just don't want to leave the 2nd best card in the deck in the side at least in 1st Match ups - this are just statistics. and for exact this same reason I just play Bribery (it is like playing A.N. in side vs Sneak and Reanimator!) and D.R. in side (vs those Pox and Lands builds and can do something vs blue if Xantid is in play) . If I had to get rid of a Base slot I absolutly would prefer to play 3 B.W. and 4 I.T. than backwards - as said - If I had - but never will do this... (maybe will try 6 Discards in base... don't know...)

    Related to Disfigure:
    Well I see this card as a very specific card - I really don't want to play such specific card in a build like TES and even vs an already favourable match up like D&T - for sure I would prefer C&V which also serves to bounce Spheres Of R. which are seeing play by here lately...


    Apart, please Bryant could you answer why you sided that way vs Junk?
    Thanks.
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  3. #6803
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    My thoughts:

    I really think the A.Decay idea vs D&T is awfull:
    - you only play 13 lands and among those you play only 1 basic (having in mind lot of them are fetches it is like playing 12 lands with 3.5 fetches)
    - if Thalia is played you'll be in a bad position to get to play you A.D. as they play 4 Wastelands 4 Ports. - then you'll need to play 1 Swamp 1 C.Mox 1 Destroyable Land to aim this goal.
    First, we're talking about 14(!) lands total and among them two green sources so you're not cold to a single Wasteland and Decay is an instant, so you can sit on Fetchlands to destroy Thalia and shit either eot or in response to Port. The only potential problem is the 3 mana total.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    I play 4 only to win my So Hated Miracles match up... (will try again 2 Silences and see if they don't get worse so much that 1st games vs this archetype...)
    I don't see why you are complaining about Wasteland and Port but are fine with playing Gemstone Mines and Silences in this meta while Fetches would let you sandbag mana against Wasteland/Port and get access to Basics on demand *shrug*

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Related to the manabase:
    Well I strongly disagree in playing 13 lands and only 11 of them producing blue - you need blue to beeing able to set up with cantrips for the next turn to combo off. Me for example playing 12 lands and 12 producing blue have a more consistence at playing cantrips than you in the first turns.
    I said it before in the thread: you have 2 non-blue producing lands in the Maindeck and one in the side among 14 lands, but have only 4 Spells which expose you after fetching a blue Dual. Pal, you play 1 blue Source more than Bryant but two lands less in total postboard; talking about consistancy especially against Wasteland or Port is a bit off imo

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Related to the I.T. in side:
    As Lem I also disagtree on this:
    I finally stated on the following:
    Even I recognize I loose Side Slots, I just prefer to make B.W. a strong and polivalent Storm Engine - this means playing D.R. and Bribery in Side, BUT absolutly I just don't want to leave the 2nd best card in the deck in the side at least in 1st Match ups - this are just statistics. and for exact this same reason I just play Bribery (it is like playing A.N. in side vs Sneak and Reanimator!) and D.R. in side (vs those Pox and Lands builds and can do something vs blue if Xantid is in play) . If I had to get rid of a Base slot I absolutly would prefer to play 3 B.W. and 4 I.T. than backwards - as said - If I had - but never will do this... (maybe will try 6 Discards in base... don't know...)
    I don't know how I feel about seeing my name in the lead of a Paragraph talking about DimRet and 3 Wishes ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Related to Disfigure:
    Well I see this card as a very specific card - I really don't want to play such specific card in a build like TES and even vs an already favourable match up like D&T - for sure I would prefer C&V which also serves to bounce Spheres Of R. which are seeing play by here lately...
    It is as specific as Massacre, Decay or Bribery; it's an option against hatebears which can be played safe off the Basic Swamp and also Deals with DRS, Delver or Magus of the Moon on demand just to name a few. I don't see a general Problem with running specific answers to common problems.
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  4. #6804
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Field report: April 11th 2015 Vancouver Legacy Spring Classic, 40 players

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Chrome Mox
    3 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Ad Nauseam
    SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
    SB: 1 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Massacre
    SB: 1 Past in Flames
    SB: 1 Void Snare
    SB: 1 Bayou
    SB: 1 Bribery (this sucked, there was only two players with griselbrands in the room, i'll never learn i guess)


    R1- Miracles
    Game one: Duress into Ad Nauseam
    SB: -4 Ponder, -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Swamp, -2 Duress. +3 Xantid Swarm, +3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Bayou, +1 Thoughtseize.
    Game Two: He has triple(!) white leyline but no force when i go for ad nauseam and tutor for 30 Goblins.
    1-0

    R2 - Miracles
    Game one: I start hitting him with Discard, draw an ETW for the turn and cast rituals + more discard into ETW. He finds no answer.
    SB: -4 Ponder, -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Swamp, -2 Duress. +3 Xantid Swarm, +3 Abrupt Decay, +1 Bayou, +1 Thoughtseize.
    Game Two: He has white leyline (again! is this a new thing?). Luckily i have ETW in my opening hand and manage to put 4 copies on the stack. He forces a copy but my 6 goblins kill him as he draws no terminus.
    2-0

    *note* I realize my sideboard strategy is not typical in this matchup. I find i have better results trying to pick my spot super early with 2 chrome mox and ETW still in the deck, and if that fails at least i have the 6 green cards sided in. Ponder won't stop counterbalance/hatebears from resolving and is super bad when counterbalance has already resolved so i cut some consistency there for the green cards that can pull me a win lategame if i draw them.

    R3 - BUG Delver
    Game one: He has turn 1 Delver on the play with counters in hand, I discard some counters but he draws more, and adds a second delver. By the time i clear his hand I'm at 5 life and he has 2 flipped delvers, I do quick math and scoop cuz my only line is Tendrils him to 2 life.
    *note* As i throw my cards back into my deck, I realize i should have gone ahead and Tendrils him to 2 life. This gives me two draw steps to draw exactly burning wish and then ritual/LED, or LED and then Burning wish to past in flames tendrils him assuming he'll draw 3 bad cards as i draw 2 perfect cards.
    SB: -1 Chrome Mox, -1 Ponder. +1 Bayou, +1 Thoughtseize.
    Game two: He starts on delver, I start on duress and clear something from his hand. His delver doesn't flip and i draw ETW for the turn and make a bunch of tokens that kill him.
    Game three: On turn 2 he has two open lands and no pressure but my hand is DR, Rof, Rof, LED, AdN, ETW, Duress and i somehow feel unstoppable. I tap my volc for Rof, it resolves, 2nd rite of flame resolves, DR resolves next, then i duress. He forces duress. I cast LED and then Empty the warrens floating 2. He STIFLES my storm trigger, damn! My 2 goblins get blocked and i spend all game trying to find 5 mana to cast that ad nauseam while he kills me.
    2-1

    R4 - DNT
    Game one: My hand is 14 goblins on the draw. His hand is Mother of runes into SFM on the play. I don't draw any discard on my turn 2.
    SB: -3 Duress, -1 Ponder. +1 Void Snare, +1 Bayou, +1 Infernal Tutor, +1 Thoughtseize.
    Game two: Turn 2 AdN on the play.
    Game three: he mulls to 5 and leads on karakas. I thoughtseize him off basic swamp and take his cannonist leaving him with two wastelands and SFM in hand. Good thing i have a basic swamp in play so he can't waste me back a turn giving him more turns to draw more hatebears! He casts his mystic having not drawn a hatebear for the turn and i untap and infernal for ad nauseam.
    3-1

    R5 - ANT
    Game one: He's on the play but i get to duress his infernal. We tear at eachothers hands a bit but i end up short storming him for 16 which is lethal thanks to two gitaxians earlier.
    SB: -1 ETW, +1 Thoughtseize
    Game two: We destroy eachothers hands but this time he PIF loops before i rebuild.
    Game three: He misses on T1 therapy naming burning wish, which leads me to believe he's got surgical backup. My turn 2 i go off with ad nauseam but he halts my combo by surgical on infernal while i only have access to black. I have to discard down and pass back, he hits me with another discard spell taking a burning wish but on my turn I draw another Burning wish and i'm able to PIF for the win.
    4-1

    R6 - ID into top 8

    Quarterfinals - Infect
    Game one: He has the play. I mull to 5 finally seeing an IMS. He has a clock and my draws brick though.
    SB: -1 Ponder. +1 Thoughtseize.
    Game two: I eventually clear his hand and he has a random top card but have to pass back. He draws, attacks, and next turn will be lethal if he gets one. I take my turn and cast adnauseam. Hes got FOW cast from his 5 lands.

    Game over!

    Thanks for reading.

    In regards to having Chain of Vapor VS DNT; I'm satisfied with my boarding plan of -3 Duress, -1 Ponder. +1 Void Snare, +1 Bayou, +1 Infernal Tutor, +1 Thoughtseize.

    Just getting the duresses out of the deck and going belcher mode is all you should need and the other SB spots should be used for Surgical or something. IN MY OPINION. Okay goodnight.
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  5. #6805
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    First, we're talking about 14(!) lands total and among them two green sources so you're not cold to a single Wasteland and Decay is an instant, so you can sit on Fetchlands to destroy Thalia and shit either eot or in response to Port. The only potential problem is the 3 mana total.

    Well, you are right, I assumed Bryant's Base and Side contained only 1 single Green source in total. I suppose you play 2 Green sources to support A.D. under Wasteland. I dont think it is worth it. Still I believe that the way to go vs D&T is just beeing faster, not sitting on your feches until you reach any A.D. -> once you reach this point , I don't think you only will need to deal with a unique hatebear... as they also play Vial.
    Anyway, maybe it is valid to test this option and see if works, as said I only use decays vs MUD and Miracles so it is not bad idea to make use of decays also for D&T . Long time ago I have no problems vs this archetype.


    I don't see why you are complaining about Wasteland and Port but are fine with playing Gemstone Mines and Silences in this meta while Fetches would let you sandbag mana against Wasteland/Port and get access to Basics on demand *shrug*

    I complain about Port and wasteland inside the context of trying to cast A.D. not in the context to go off - in this context - I just need CoB or Gemstone. so yes - in this context Gemstones and CoB are more consistent in terms of availability of mana to get the goal of going off.

    I said it before in the thread: you have 2 non-blue producing lands in the Maindeck and one in the side among 14 lands, but have only 4 Spells which expose you after fetching a blue Dual. Pal, you play 1 blue Source more than Bryant but two lands less in total postboard; talking about consistancy especially against Wasteland or Port is a bit off imo

    Same argument as before - Context. and will add
    In my experince as Storm player I focus TES and ANT as very different approaches to handle 1.Blue with wastelands and 2.Wastelands Only. For the TES approach I just Im used to use gemstones to throw duresses and stuff to my Opponents and I really don-t need any Indestructible Land, I just dont mind if they destroy my Gemestone once I played my duress with LAnd in hand or Ponder into another gemstone as example.

    I believe the main disagreement we have is the different way we want to face wastelands, as a TES player Ive been ok with this approach and just do not want to change to ANT approach as I still dont find any need for this.


    I don't know how I feel about seeing my name in the lead of a Paragraph talking about DimRet and 3 Wishes ;P

    I'm with you in not playing 3 I.T. in side. that-s all.

    It is as specific as Massacre, Decay or Bribery; it's an option against hatebears which can be played safe off the Basic Swamp and also Deals with DRS, Delver or Magus of the Moon on demand just to name a few. I don't see a general Problem with running specific answers to common problems.

    Well I said that maybe it is better to run CoV as it has the same cost as disfigure and likely the same effect - bouncing a thalia to win on next turn is the thing you will do most of the times as example. Now I see that you decremented the number of blue sources in favour of black sources maybe it is better to use a black antihatebear I can not disagree on this.

    NOTE> you mentioned here magus , I switches from massacre to pyroclasm becuase>
    1. it is more generic card and dont have so many swamps
    2. Still didn-t find any need vs D^T talking about massacre.
    3. I found a scenario in which pyroclasm instead massacre would have won me the game vs Red MUD.


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  6. #6806

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I was also up at the Vancouver Classic last weekend, though my results weren't quite as good as Brett's (I continue my 9th place streak). Lost my notes somewhere on the trip back, but I have a pretty decent recollection of what happened.

    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Swamp
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Bayou
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Ad Nauseam

    SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
    SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Massacre
    SB: 1 Past in Flames
    SB: 1 Void Snare
    SB: 1 Telemin Performance (last minute decision after seeing 4 storm decks in the room, plus I wanted to troll Greg)

    R1 - Shardless

    G1: Probe him to see a hand of dudes and Visions, cast a bunch of red spells and make ~14 goblins.
    G2: He Thoughtseizes my hand of BW, land, BS, LED, RoF, RoF, Probe. He takes the BS, which made me feel like he had a pretty stacked hand. Probed him to see pretty much the same hand as game 1, dump Goblins, he died in short order (though he put up a valiant fight by cascading into a Chill )

    1-0
    2-0 in games


    R2 - Painter

    G1: Pretty sure he dropped a Moon on turn 1 and died to AN > ToA.

    G2: He assembled the obnoxious Welder/Welder/Canonist board, which I couldn't get out of. Died to midget beats.

    G3: Weird game that I very nearly punted. He went turn 2 Recruit for Canonist, SSG, Petal, cast the Canonist. I had a decay, but managed to draw both of my Volcs and the bayou, but no other useful mana sources for a few turns. He blasts some cantrips and hits me a few times. I rip CoV and bounce his Canonist EOT and untap into AN, draw every IT and ritual in my deck, but no BW, LED, or cantrips. I have to stop at 1 life, Imprint a discard spell to decay his Recruiter that's threatening to kill me, and discard down to 7, happy to ditch the lands. He untaps, replays the canonist. I draw and realize I didn't make a land drop before discarding, so I still can't go off after Decaying his Canonist. I just pass and blow it up during his combat though, and he has nothing else relevant. Natural Tendrils him.

    2-0
    4-1 in games

    R3 - Merfolk

    G1: He drops a Catcher, and I probe him seeing Daze, Pierce, Force, Lord, land (who the hell plays Pierce in Merfolk?) I sculpt for awhile and try to go off through his soft counters, but Tidal warrior is making it really hard. Don't remember the exact sequencing, but I didn't have enough mana left over to make anything but Goblins, which didn't do much against his islandwalking 4/4s.

    G2: I mull to a slowish 6 with Swarm, He mulls to a 4-card hand, Land, Pierce, Silvergill, land I think. Duress the Pierce, he rips Ponder (at this point I have no idea what's going on), and it stabilizes his draw, which I never manage to find business with my cantrips and die to a bunch of Lords.

    2-1
    4-3 in games


    R4 - DnT

    G1: He drops a Mom. I drop 16 goblins.
    G2: He drops a canonist. I go Petal > LED > CoV, bounce the Petal/LED/Canonist, Petal, LED, Ritual, Ritual, IT, BW, Tendrils. I forgot how much fun CoV is.

    3-1
    6-3 in games


    R5 - DnT

    G1: He drops a Thalia and wastes me into oblivion.
    G2: He plays some hatebears, I sculpt for awhile, wipe his board and kill him at some point.
    G3: He plays a Mom, a bear, a RiP, then Stoneforge for Batterskull. By the time I can get the bear off the board, he's got the germ online, and all I have is a single BW for business.

    3-2
    7-5 in games


    R6 - Infect

    G1: I keep a discard heavy hand, he drops a turn 1 Elf. I see a hand of Daze and pump spells, so I start stripping the pump spells. His 1 poison a turn doesn't get there, and though the only business I found was Empty, he still can't fight through 18 goblins.
    G2: A drawn out cripple fight where I strip his only Infect dude, but can't find any business, where he just draws ~8 lands in a row. He eventually gets Tendrils'd.

    4-2
    9-5 in games


    Not the greatest run - I had a few frustrating situations where graveyard hate + a clock made Wish feel really useless, I probably could have altered my gameplan and tried to sculpt a natural Tendrils in those situations, but it's not something I find myself doing very often. I might switch back to an ANT variant for awhile to get back into the habit of looking for natural kills, I feel pretty rusty in that regard.


    General notes:

    - Chain of Vapor was really nice, I'll definitely keep playing it in local events.

    - I'm liking the basic Swamp, still can't see how you guys stand the Island, though

    - Matt Pavlic is a cool dude.

    - #bantidalwarrior

  7. #6807

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Just a heads up, guys. Paeng is in day 2 of GP Kyoto with TES.
    Re: Eldritch Moon and Emrakul

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    You're right that the set symbol is a pretty big giveaway though, and it's not like anyone was expecting anything else after the last block. It's like they brought out Neil Pert and Alex Lifeson, then announced a "mysterious special guest" would be joining them. Well of course it's fucking Geddy Lee.

  8. #6808
    Bryant Cook
    Guest

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by .Ix View Post
    Just a heads up, guys. Paeng is in day 2 of GP Kyoto with TES.
    Congrats to him as well as Kai who made top 8.

    In other news, I'll be working on the TES site today (first time in a month, I've been busy!).

  9. #6809

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    As I'm not helping with any constructive deckbuilding, advices, or anything really, please feel free to ignore my newbie questions. I did my best at reading the thread, but if a question was already answered, please feel free to ignore me again. If however someone is willing to help a rather bad TES player, here is my situation.

    I just came back from a break. I played TES a bit before, was lot of fun, but my meta changed harsly and this the version I was running seems to be out dated. I did some of the work, noticed the differences between my old version and the new one posted in the original post. When possible, I guess I would prefer to check if my reasoning is good rather than just plain explaining why the changes were made, as it was all written. However, when I'm obviously wrong in my poor analysis or even my fact checking (thinking a change is for something while it's for something else), please, please, correct me. Here we go!

    QUESTIONS/ANALYSIS

    Gemstone Mine & Basic Lands
    As I have barely any Wasteland or other taxes in my meta, I honestly don't feel or understand the need to get rid of the Gemstone Mine for basic lands. To my eyes it just seems they should provide additional constancy with basically no drawbacks. I mean, I understand Gemstone were better when we were using 5 colors, but what's wrong using it for 4 colors when it will more than likely stay on the field? Your experience could show me wrong but I would appreciate an explanation.

    The case of Xantid Swarm, Bayou, and Tropical Island
    As you can see, we don't have many blue decks or counterspells. No Show & Tell, Omnitell, Sneak and Show, or the like. While it was useful vs the Reanimator and the Merfolk, I'm questionning if Xantid is a must and if Silence wouldn't be more versatile judging the amount of discards the other decks are running. An other reason why I wouldn't play Xantid is my lack of Bayou. It was very well explained why Bayou is a superior choice to Tropical Island, but I'm not in a position to make that switch, from my understanding, a Tropical Island instead of a Bayou wouldn't make THAT much of a difference if the only purpose becomes Abrupt Decay. You wouldn't try a T2 win when you need an Abrupt Decay, so yeah, the argument might not work. Or at least it's what I understand.

    Silence
    As a remplacement for Xantid Swarm, my logical choice would become Silence. Please not that I don't want to play the card more than an other and I'm not trying to find excuses to put it in the deck as some others might do, I'm really trying to be plain rational here. 6 players out of 7 might run discards, and only 2 could run any sort of counterspells. A quick silence the turn before I go in usually makes me safe to go for the kill when they can barely respond with anything before it's too late.

    Infernal Tutor kept in the side
    So many discard, once again, and quite a few Extirpate/Surgical Extraction running around. For these reasons I would keep it out, but some of you might think that, judging by the meta, I should put all the chances I can for a quick T1 or T2 kill. I would appreciate advice on that.

    General Sideboard List
    I was planning on something like this:

    2 Abrupt Decay (don't own 3)
    3 Silence (discussed above)
    2 Chain of Vapor
    1 Void Snare
    1 Pyroclasm (should be very useful in my meta)
    1 Massacre (could be a flex spot, but I like it vs Elves and the new D&T)
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Past in Flames
    1 Infernal Tutor (discussed above)
    1 Grapeshot (used it a few times

    That means:
    -no sideboard land (I doubt I'm good enough to have a land in sideboard anyway, seems complex)
    -no Thoughtseize (feels no need since barely any other combo deck)
    -no Pithing Needle (but I don't see it being good)
    -no Xantid Swarm (for the reasoning mentionned above)


    And that should be it. I short, I guess we could make a TL;DR such as this

    TL;DR: What's the best TES version I could build, without a Bayou or more than 2 Abrupt Decay, in the meta I'm playing in?
    As I said I would gladly accept criticism over my conclusions. Let your experience speak!

    Thanks again.


    META

    Player 1
    Manaless Dredge (may borrow my FoW and play Michael Keller's list)
    Elves!
    Burn

    Player 2
    Enchantress (no FoW)
    Abzan Stoneblade (without Wasteland)
    Affinity

    Player 3
    Merfolk (with FoW)
    Burn
    4 -color Maverick (with Wasteland)
    UR Delver (with FoW)

    Player 4
    The Gate (usually no Wasteland, may borrow mine)

    Player 5
    Reanimator (with FoW)

    Player 6
    Death and Taxes (with Wasteland and Ports)

    Player 7 (me)
    TES
    UW Stoneblade (with FoW)
    The Gate (with Wasteland)
    Esper Counterthopter ISHH (built with left overs from other decks)
    Oops! All spells

    Player 8
    Plays what ever he can burrows from someone else





    OLD VERSION FOUND
    4 Gemstone Mine
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn

    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond

    4 Rite of Flame
    4 Dark Ritual
    3 Chrome Mox

    3 Infernal Tutor
    4 Burning Wish

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe

    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Duress

    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Ad Nauseam

    SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 2 Xantid Swarm
    SB: 3 Chain of Vapor
    SB: 1 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
    SB: 1 Grapeshot
    SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
    SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
    SB: 1 Massacre
    SB: 1 Past in Flames
    SB: 1 Void Snare

  10. #6810
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    As I'm not helping with any constructive deckbuilding, advices, or anything really, please feel free to ignore my newbie questions. I did my best at reading the thread, but if a question was already answered, please feel free to ignore me again. If however someone is willing to help a rather bad TES player, here is my situation.

    I just came back from a break. I played TES a bit before, was lot of fun, but my meta changed harsly and this the version I was running seems to be out dated. I did some of the work, noticed the differences between my old version and the new one posted in the original post. When possible, I guess I would prefer to check if my reasoning is good rather than just plain explaining why the changes were made, as it was all written. However, when I'm obviously wrong in my poor analysis or even my fact checking (thinking a change is for something while it's for something else), please, please, correct me. Here we go!
    It's lunchbreak, so lets see if I can help you out. Will keep it sgort however. Hope thats fine

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    QUESTIONS/ANALYSIS

    Gemstone Mine & Basic Lands
    As I have barely any Wasteland or other taxes in my meta, I honestly don't feel or understand the need to get rid of the Gemstone Mine for basic lands. To my eyes it just seems they should provide additional constancy with basically no drawbacks. I mean, I understand Gemstone were better when we were using 5 colors, but what's wrong using it for 4 colors when it will more than likely stay on the field? Your experience could show me wrong but I would appreciate an explanation.
    It's not about the basics in the first place, but about the fetches to improve the cantrips and the fact that Dual give you the ability to battle in longer games while Gemstones leave you dead in the water and your opponent can just watch you depleting your Mining Counters and destroying your own manasource, while he can sit on a Taxing Counter. It's counterintuitive to deplete your Gemstone in longer games just for finding (reads: cantripping) more lands. Since we moved to basically 3,5 colors only and managed to find a pretty compact color distribution in Duals, Gemstones did no longer cut it. At this point there came up the discussion about adding Basics (or current state: a swamp) for maintaining a Wasteland-proof manasource to cast discard, which you can follow up with Volcanic for BR off two IMS for your combo.

    so look beyind the surface: it's not about the Basic; it's about better cantrips

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    The case of Xantid Swarm, Bayou, and Tropical Island
    As you can see, we don't have many blue decks or counterspells. No Show & Tell, Omnitell, Sneak and Show, or the like. While it was useful vs the Reanimator and the Merfolk, I'm questionning if Xantid is a must and if Silence wouldn't be more versatile judging the amount of discards the other decks are running. An other reason why I wouldn't play Xantid is my lack of Bayou. It was very well explained why Bayou is a superior choice to Tropical Island, but I'm not in a position to make that switch, from my understanding, a Tropical Island instead of a Bayou wouldn't make THAT much of a difference if the only purpose becomes Abrupt Decay. You wouldn't try a T2 win when you need an Abrupt Decay, so yeah, the argument might not work. Or at least it's what I understand.
    Check the metagame: S&T and Miracles are the two most played archetypes atm and Xantid is good against these as well as stuff like Infect. It blanks all these Flusterstorms from the board and messes with SDT->counter which ks the secind biggest annoyance next to Counterbalance out of Miracles. Silence isn't more versatile and that's the reason we cutted it in the first place (color or manabase wasn't a reason at that time). It's plain carddisadvantage if you want to use it to prevent sorcery speed hate and total crap once you face a deck which pairs such hate (Hatebears/Discard) with counters. You would splash a color AND suffer a strategic disadvantage at the same time.

    If you have no access to Bayou, take a Tropical and mind that you might have problems with your fetchlands as a result as there is no one other than Delta to grab Swamp/Sea/Trop/Volcanic. The real advantage of Bayou isn't Decay as you can pair U.Sea + Tropical, it's that Volcanic + Bayou not only delivers all 4 colors AND Black+Red for the combo turn, but that Bayou also casts all kind of protection (xantid/duress/therapy) as either your first or second land after a Volcanic (to cantrip up to two times before shuffling with a fetch).

    once again, look behind the curtain: it's not about Decay; it's about color-access and disruption off two lands

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    Silence
    As a remplacement for Xantid Swarm, my logical choice would become Silence. Please not that I don't want to play the card more than an other and I'm not trying to find excuses to put it in the deck as some others might do, I'm really trying to be plain rational here. 6 players out of 7 might run discards, and only 2 could run any sort of counterspells. A quick silence the turn before I go in usually makes me safe to go for the kill when they can barely respond with anything before it's too late.
    So why not discard their discard then AND peek at their hand WITHOUT the need to run white? 3 flies with 1 clap. Running Silence over Xantid and/or Discard postboard is irrational against either a counteroverload or opposing discard. What's the point of dropping Gemstone to cast an upkeep Silence if your opponent shrugs and plays Wasteland or wasn't about to do anything in the first place? You threw away a card for nothing. The only advantage you have there is a certain protection against topdecked, sorcery-speed hate. IMO not worth running another color and a weaker manabase.

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    Infernal Tutor kept in the side
    So many discard, once again, and quite a few Extirpate/Surgical Extraction running around. For these reasons I would keep it out, but some of you might think that, judging by the meta, I should put all the chances I can for a quick T1 or T2 kill. I would appreciate advice on that.
    I still consider this a meta-call. If you think you'll face plenty of decks which fold to the T1/2 burst, run the Infernal MB and potentially side it out for lonfer games 2&3 against more resistance which is to expect. If you suspect to face more defensive opponents (simply because they know your deck for example and ergo are more likely to keep hands with early interaction like Thoughtseize/FoW), run the Infernal in the side.

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    TL;DR: What's the best TES version I could build, without a Bayou or more than 2 Abrupt Decay, in the meta I'm playing in?
    As I said I would gladly accept criticism over my conclusions. Let your experience speak!

    Thanks again.
    I skipped the list, because I said enough about Silence before to pick up the topic once more. If you manage to aquire Bayou at some point, do it. We have suprisingly achieved a consent across Storm-Subtypes that Bayou is the best green land to run in the maindeck, but a Tropical will do it too for the time being. Having only 2 Decays are however a no-topic for me; sorry about that. It's our life ensurance against Chalice/Counterbalance/shit-we-cannot-win-through since it's printing. We have tried w/o Decays and failed. I would rather play 4 than 3 atm, but arguing about only 2 with the current representation of miracles in the metagame is out of the picture.

    I also ignore the metagame listed. The deck is build to perform well meta-independant aside 1-3 SB slots you may want to switch out at times (Extractions, CoV, etc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  11. #6811
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Before I forget it: Tickets for GP Lille here here!

    Will make a Twitter-Live-Ticker for that weekend so you can follow me and see how bad I do .. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  12. #6812
    A Dedicated Storm Player...
    Pelikanudo's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    Before I forget it: Tickets for GP Lille here here!

    Will make a Twitter-Live-Ticker for that weekend so you can follow me and see how bad I do .. lol
    Lemnear I wish you good luck there!!!

    I've seen recently that magicCardMarket is doing something similar like SCG and I'll try to attend to any torunament in Europe, for sure when it occurs in Madrid I'll go, I hope someday I find some of you Stomers!

    I would appreciate if you post me or likes the final list you'll go with.

    Apart, I have possibilities to attend to a tournament in here no more than 100 people and will bring my TES build to see if performs well with those Silences and those So many Cards-For-B.W. in my side... If I top-8 I'll see if I can make a litle report and reach some conclusions... I'm thinking in reducing to 1 the no of Silences in my base... in deed I don't want to loose vs Miracles... in here everybody seems to win that archetype.... maybe now I loose 1st games and win the rest vs Miracles as opposite in before experiences...

    as said, Good Luck!!
    My Parfait Build
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    Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...

  13. #6813
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm



    My second send of cards to Pete Venters came back today! (I never heard anything back from anyone on the first send - if you're unaware of what happened, I basically received a blank envelope back and had to re-buy everything.)

  14. #6814

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Thank you Lemnear!

    I guess I badly explained myself on the Bayou/Decay issue, but it doesn't matter any more. I should skip the Gemstone Mine, I'll get a third Decay, won't play Silence (your Silence point was really sharp), and I might check for a Bayou. I understand that your intent is to make the deck as best as possible for a general use and I think I might just go that way, even if some cards won't see plays.

    To put it in other words, your explanations were global and not specific to the situation I'm in, but showed that what I was asking was wrong in itself. I shouldn't build the deck around my very specific meta, and I appreciate the insight.

    Thanks again!

  15. #6815
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    Thank you Lemnear!

    I guess I badly explained myself on the Bayou/Decay issue, but it doesn't matter any more. I should skip the Gemstone Mine, I'll get a third Decay, won't play Silence (your Silence point was really sharp), and I might check for a Bayou. I understand that your intent is to make the deck as best as possible for a general use and I think I might just go that way, even if some cards won't see plays.

    To put it in other words, your explanations were global and not specific to the situation I'm in, but showed that what I was asking was wrong in itself. I shouldn't build the deck around my very specific meta, and I appreciate the insight.

    Thanks again!
    Not a big deal, I'm here to help. Bayou is a step investment, so I thought it might be fair to explain in detail why it has the edge over Tropical for me and what makes the best MD for an unknown meta, which is the ultimate goal. You are sure free to adjust the deck to your personal needs and metagame which mainly includes the SB, so if there are no Chalice/Counterbalance in your meta, you can obviously reduce the number of Decays as a reaction. "I have only 2 Decays" is however no argument I can let count ;P

    I hope that you understand that I have not the capacity to plow through metagame constellations and help you or other Sourcers building their specific SB for their local metagame. Bryant's OP with all the possible SB cards listed to choose from should be your first stop and if you don't see a point for Xantid in your local meta, then cut them for something which is more helpful from that list. I was just generally speaking about the SB and about Xantid/Decay in particular for Miracles/S&T to hint at those being mayor players in the format and in regards to the Bayou. Don't let that distract you from your own metagame choices. We're just used to speak and develop for unknown metagames and the SB in the OP just reflects the average unkniwn metagame constellation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  16. #6816

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I hope that you understand that I have not the capacity to plow through metagame constellations and help you or other Sourcers building their specific SB for their local metagame.
    Of course :)

    This is why this thread is one of the greatest among all Magic, I have not seen so many great minds work together to achieve a very specific, high end goal. It was a bit obnoxious from me to ask for a too specific case. Despite that, you took some time and explained me kindly. The final word was, I need to step up my game and be ready for anything, not just my meta. I prefer to go next level than be the best at a lower one :)

    Hopefully next time my questions will help a bit more :P

  17. #6817
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by LDX View Post
    Of course :)

    This is why this thread is one of the greatest among all Magic, I have not seen so many great minds work together to achieve a very specific, high end goal. It was a bit obnoxious from me to ask for a too specific case. Despite that, you took some time and explained me kindly.
    Don't call that "obnoxious". This is a normal thread after all and the purpose is to discuss and exchange. ;)


    edit: Daddy needs a new Avatar ... :/
    edit 2: done
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  18. #6818
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Played in a local tonight. Went 3-1.

    2-1 Mono-Green Chalice Aggro
    2-0 Belcher
    1-2 Lands (Mulled to five game two, was locked out by Loam + Waste - Game three had Ad Nauseam discarded, couldn't win through Crop Rotation for Bog/Tabernackle)
    2-0 Reanimator (Two turn ones, first one with Therapy, second one with just Probe)

    I had the third Mox upside down all night, it was stellar! I loved it almost every time. List felt very good, was even better using my newly signed cards. SO. MANY. GRAPESHOTS.

  19. #6819
    jungle lion, good?...
    paeng4983's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Just in case anyone cares, i posted my TR at the TR page of this site.
    10-4-1 with TES at GP Kyoto 17-19 April 2015.

    ^_^
    TJB

    http://deartiyopaeng.blogspot.com/ <---- (updated) MTG related blog. ^_^

    TES: 102nd out of 2000 players at GP Kyoto 2015 (Legacy)

    UR Storm: 37th of 950 players at GP Guangzhou 2016 (Modern)

  20. #6820

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    My report is up guys, check it out !


    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...070#post879070

    Kai

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