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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #7761
    It's not easy being green

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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    One thing worth noting on Massacre as well that you're definitely aware of but wasn't listed in the article: Elves searching for Savannah is almost always immediately followed up by Teeg, which invalidates Massacre as an answer, so I don't know if it even belongs on the list.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  2. #7762

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    Curious, have you considered MDing the Bayou and Thoughtseizes (-1 Chrome Mox and -2 Duress) and cutting Grape Shot so you can improve the MD vs Eldrazi and the SB vs Miracles? I've been messing around with SBing 3 Tendrils and 2 PIF to side in 2 Tendrils and 1 PIF vs Miracles similar to what ANT players have been doing and I've been reasonably successful with it.

    I've also been on the fence about Cabal Therapy recently, in the situations where you keep discard in just running 4 Duress/2 Thoughtseize has been a lot more consistent at discarding hate post-board and I'm not sure the ETW synergy really matters that much right now. Eldrazi kind of did us a favour by moving from creature to artifact based hate, it seems like we should be taking more advantage of it than just Hurkyl's. If Massacre isn't a thing any more, and I don't think it is personally, then Cabal Therapy on Thalia seems like it should be up for review as well.

  3. #7763
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Curious, have you considered MDing the Bayou and Thoughtseizes (-1 Chrome Mox and -2 Duress) and cutting Grape Shot so you can improve the MD vs Eldrazi and the SB vs Miracles? I've been messing around with SBing 3 Tendrils and 2 PIF to side in 2 Tendrils and 1 PIF vs Miracles similar to what ANT players have been doing and I've been reasonably successful with it.

    I've also been on the fence about Cabal Therapy recently, in the situations where you keep discard in just running 4 Duress/2 Thoughtseize has been a lot more consistent at discarding hate post-board and I'm not sure the ETW synergy really matters that much right now. Eldrazi kind of did us a favour by moving from creature to artifact based hate, it seems like we should be taking more advantage of it than just Hurkyl's. If Massacre isn't a thing any more, and I don't think it is personally, then Cabal Therapy on Thalia seems like it should be up for review as well.
    We've had this discussion months ago about Thoughtseize in the main. I use 'Seize to compliment Duress against decks like Miracles, Show & Reanimator going up to 8 discard spells which you can no longer do.

    I don't think the lifeloss main deck is worthwhile, especially in a metagame where Delver of Secrets is huge.
    Seize's lifeloss is actually a very big issue when it comes down to being an Ad Nauseam deck. (Especially with only two Chrome Mox)

    You're taking away one of the decks biggest strengths to over-compensate for miracles.

    I don't believe the metagame has shifted nearly enough to consider cutting Cabal Therapy, especially when you're suggesting a worse option for our life-total based strategy.

    If you really want to grind the opponent down, you could just cut two slots from the board (1 Grapeshot & 1 Seize) to add in a second copy of PIF & Tendrils, but it's narrow and would only be done against Miracles.

    EDIT: Also, aren't you sort of playing into their game-plan of hitting you with Rest in Peace?

  4. #7764

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    We've had this discussion months ago about Thoughtseize in the main. I use 'Seize to compliment Duress against decks like Miracles, Show & Reanimator going up to 8 discard spells which you can no longer do.

    I don't think the lifeloss main deck is worthwhile, especially in a metagame where Delver of Secrets is huge.
    Seize's lifeloss is actually a very big issue when it comes down to being an Ad Nauseam deck. (Especially with only two Chrome Mox)

    You're taking away one of the decks biggest strengths to over-compensate for miracles.

    I don't believe the metagame has shifted nearly enough to consider cutting Cabal Therapy, especially when you're suggesting a worse option for our life-total based strategy.

    If you really want to grind the opponent down, you could just cut two slots from the board (1 Grapeshot & 1 Seize) to add in a second copy of PIF & Tendrils, but it's narrow and would only be done against Miracles.

    EDIT: Also, aren't you sort of playing into their game-plan of hitting you with Rest in Peace?
    Fair points, but the idea behind SBing in extra copies of Tendrils of Agony and Past in Flames is so you don't have to SB in discard vs Miracles. As far as Rest in Peace, I have never seen Miracles SB that vs TES game 2.

  5. #7765
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Fortune View Post
    Fair points, but the idea behind SBing in extra copies of Tendrils of Agony and Past in Flames is so you don't have to SB in discard vs Miracles. As far as Rest in Peace, I have never seen Miracles SB that vs TES game 2.
    But you lose discard spells against decks like Reanimator, Show & Tell and Death & Taxes. It's a narrow sideboard plan when building for large events, you want versatile plans.

    I've had countless people side in Rest in Peace against me, not everyone is on the same skill level. People that don't know any better think Graveyard hate is good against TES.

  6. #7766
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm


  7. #7767

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Could of swore I posted in here but it seems to be gone now.

    Anyway, curious on chrome Mox, how often do you find yourself in the situation where you need that extra mana to go off, but the card you use to imprint is important for the turn you go off?

    Do you use it and then dig for another?
    Wait to get another card to imprint that's not so important for the combo turn?

  8. #7768

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidneyious View Post
    Could of swore I posted in here but it seems to be gone now.

    Anyway, curious on chrome Mox, how often do you find yourself in the situation where you need that extra mana to go off, but the card you use to imprint is important for the turn you go off?

    Do you use it and then dig for another?
    Wait to get another card to imprint that's not so important for the combo turn?
    I find the moxes VERY VERY useful after ad nauseam. Most of the time I don't want to make a long game, so as soon I have the right mana to cast nauseam I do. Moxes, with petals, let you to start easily after you tapped out to cast nauseam.

    I'm playing 3 moxes, 7 fetches and bayou MD: I don't want to waste a slot in sideboard for a land, but I don't want to go down to 2 moxes. I found that the difference between 3-2 moxes (50%) is huge compared to the difference between 7-8 fetches (14%).

  9. #7769

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidneyious View Post
    Could of swore I posted in here but it seems to be gone now.

    Anyway, curious on chrome Mox, how often do you find yourself in the situation where you need that extra mana to go off, but the card you use to imprint is important for the turn you go off?

    Do you use it and then dig for another?
    Wait to get another card to imprint that's not so important for the combo turn?
    I'll mostly agree with the post above me. I'll try to answer your question directly:

    How often do you find yourself in the situation where you need that extra mana to go off, but the card you use to imprint is important for the turn you go off?
    It happens, but it's very rare.

    That being said, in most of these very rare situations, I shouldn't try to go off anyway if the only way I can is using Chrome Mox + an important card. So the very small % of times your question becomes a real issue is outrageously crushed by the utility Chrome Mox provides in its most important role, which is the post-Ad Nauseam mana source.
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  10. #7770
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    The rise of Eldrazi Stompy makes me want to revisit Simian Spirit Guide in order to try and increase our odds to go off before they land hate permanents. Has anyone tried this recently?

  11. #7771
    Bryant Cook
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    The rise of Eldrazi Stompy makes me want to revisit Simian Spirit Guide in order to try and increase our odds to go off before they land hate permanents. Has anyone tried this recently?
    I havent. The problem with that is SSG lacks an engine that supports it (Ad Nauseam / Life total or PIf/ Graveyard).

    If you're only going to Empty the Warrens, Belcher does it better.

  12. #7772
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryant Cook View Post
    I havent. The problem with that is SSG lacks an engine that supports it (Ad Nauseam / Life total or PIf/ Graveyard).

    If you're only going to Empty the Warrens, Belcher does it better.
    Well, you don't have to use it exclusively for Belcher mode. It's worse when Ad Nauseam resolves, but it also helps resolving AdN. You have to be a tad more careful setting one up, but with B floating, it's actually fine to reveal SSG, since we then have combo mana.

    For the other points: Chrome Mox also doesn't support Past in Flames loops (heck, it even makes it worse since we lose another spell with the imprint), and Cabal Ritual requires a certain amount of build-up, so that one doesn't actually make us any faster. I'm probably going to try a mix of Chrome Mox and Simian Spirit Guide. I'm guessing a 2/2 split should be a fine start.

  13. #7773
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    What are peoples thoughts on HRecall. I know Bryant is currently running 2 over the typical Chain of Vapor, but I really have not seen much/any Eldrazi in my meta. Is there any other matchups where recall is prefered?

    Currently I am playing Bryants latest list -1 Mox +1 CRit and -2Recall +2 Chains in the board.

  14. #7774
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Technics View Post
    What are peoples thoughts on HRecall. I know Bryant is currently running 2 over the typical Chain of Vapor, but I really have not seen much/any Eldrazi in my meta. Is there any other matchups where recall is prefered?

    Currently I am playing Bryants latest list -1 Mox +1 CRit and -2Recall +2 Chains in the board.
    I heared Lands love to drop Chalice @ 1 too lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  15. #7775

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Technics View Post
    What are peoples thoughts on HRecall. I know Bryant is currently running 2 over the typical Chain of Vapor, but I really have not seen much/any Eldrazi in my meta. Is there any other matchups where recall is prefered?

    Currently I am playing Bryants latest list -1 Mox +1 CRit and -2Recall +2 Chains in the board.
    I found Recall to be better than Chain of Vapor against any deck packing Chalice @ 1, so Lands, Aggro Loam, etc. Hell, in my meta, Death & Taxes pack Chalice of the Void too. Recall allows to bounce both Ethersworn Canonist and Chalice of the Void in a single card, which is a huge deal for me, and I'm not even talking about Trinisphere/Sphere of Resistances deck I see on Cockatrice.
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  16. #7776

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Latest edition of Infernal Tutoring! Read it before the incoming GPs!

    http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-infernal-tutoring-5/
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  17. #7777
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Gonna be in London from Mo-Thu. Any places to sling cards for an afternoon meeting stormers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  18. #7778

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Ever wonder if it's worth the risk of just jamming that Turn 1 combo hand? Maybe you're afraid of your opponent's Force of Will ruining the whole plan. This week on Legacy's Allure, Bryant Cook joins the show to help explain the Vegas-style calculations you need to know (and to showcase his personal take on the Storm Archetype). Check it out!

    Webcast: https://youtu.be/aTy8wrXesw8
    Podcast: http://shoutengine.com/LegacysAllure...ant-cook-20285

    Also available on iTunes!

  19. #7779

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Hi!

    I took TES (Bryant's list) to GP Prague and wanted to share some of my experience with the deck in the event. This isn't going to be a full report though, sorry for that.

    On Friday I played two trials. I lost the first match in the first trial versus Enchantress because I cast Dark Petition assuming Spell Mastery although Rest in Peace was in play (misplay #1) but went 5-0 in the second trial, beating Mono-R-Sneak-Attack, 3x BUG Delver and Lands.

    Starting with 2 byes on Saturday I finished 6-3 and thus barely made day 2. On day 2 I finished with a mediocre record of 9-6. Overall, the deck felt very strong and if I were a better player (I'm working on it :)), I would have finished better as you can tell from my embarrassing misplays that I'm going to reveal in this post.

    I started on day 1 with a record of 4-0 (including the 2 byes and wins versus NicFit and D&T) but lost game 3 versus AggroLoam due to a very bad decision: I decided to decay my opponent's Choke (that kept one Volcanic Island tapped) eot instead of his Gaddock Teeg; basically, I valued one red mana higher (I had a LP in play) than destroying his Teeg but drew a second Rite of Flame in my turn which would have allowed me to kill him via PiF if I had decayed Teeg instead of Choke (misplay #2). Things went downhill from there and I lost two more matches in a row versus Sneak&Show and Eldrazi under the impression that at least I didn't make any mistakes. In my last two matches on day 1 I faced a second Eldrazi deck, against which I won 2-1 thanks to 12 Goblins on turn 1 and another turn 1 AdN kill, and ANT, which I won 2-1, too, basically because TES is half a turn quicker on average.

    As I slept pretty well I expected to not punt much at least during my first match. I was wrong. I lost my first match on day 2 versus this new UR-SneakOmniShow creation because I decided to cast AdN in game 1 with one Petal in play and a LED in hand (misplay #3); AdN got Spell Pierced (an earlier Thoughtseize got Forced and I didn't expect Spell Pierce but Daze). In the second game versus the same opponent I decided to Duress his Sneak Attack instead of Brainstorm because I was expecting a longer game due to my suboptimal hand; however, my Brainstorm on turn 2 yielded me the nuts and I was ready to win on turn 3. The problem was that my opponent's brainstorm on his turn 2 was the nuts as well and Grislebrand hit the table. Had I taken his Brainstorm, which would have been the correct choice, I would have won this game (misplay #4).

    I won the next match, which I don't remember, and had the pleasure to play versus Julian Knab at 7-4. I was able to win via AdN in game 1 on turn 1 or 2. I lost game 2 after Julian's third turn to hasty green critters hitting for 20+ damage. In game 3 I was able to Duress his Thoughtseize (I think he mulliganed at least once) and went for AdN. I was very unfocused and made 2 more misplays. First, I cast LP to which Julian responded with Surgical Extraction on Dark Ritual as he knew that I drew 2 DR via AdN (misplay #5). I should've played a black land first as I hadn't played one on this turn and then LP although I didn't know that he had Surgical in hand (at least that's something). However, I was still expecting to win since my AdN was pretty good; Julian was nice enough to note that it would be still enough for me to win before I had come to the same conclusion. The latter really made me realize that in order to win something with this deck I have to play more. It's tough when your opponent is quicker in counting storm and mana than you are with your storm deck. In addition, I made a mistake when I boarded: There was one Dark Petition in my deck which I definitely wanted to keep in the sideboard. However, I still had 15 cards in the sideboard so that was fine in the end; yet, I didn't stop at 5 during AdN and revealing that DP would've been pretty "funny" (misplay #6). After that match I lost one match to Burn (no mistakes that I'm aware of here), won one match versus BUG Delver (I played versus 4 BUG Delver decks during this weekend and won all matches) and lost my last match versus Eldrazi. In game 3 versus the Eldrazi deck I decided to go all in on turn 1 because he mulliganed to 5 and I expected that he'd TKS me on his second and third turn. Unfortunately, he had Ancient Tomb in play and the Warping Wail in hand (was that a misplay?).

    So, 9-6 it is for my first GP. Thanks for reading and see you on MTGO.

  20. #7780

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Technics View Post
    What are peoples thoughts on HRecall. I know Bryant is currently running 2 over the typical Chain of Vapor, but I really have not seen much/any Eldrazi in my meta. Is there any other matchups where recall is prefered?

    Currently I am playing Bryants latest list -1 Mox +1 CRit and -2Recall +2 Chains in the board.
    HRecall is better now, a lot more decks are doing the Chalice on 1 ASAP thing and breakthrough multiple pieces of artifact based hate. The tradeoff is some loss of versatility, but dodging Chalice on 1 is huge.

    HRecall: The best choice for dealing with artifact based hate. Hits any and all problems at instant speed, but is not accessible from the wishboard. Beats Chalice on 1.
    CoV: Hits anything you need it to, but leaves you with no answer to Chalice on 1. Doesn't deal with Mom+Thalia and friends. Isn't accessible from Wishboard. Many things you might use CoV for, Abrupt Decay also solves, and either card needs to be present in the MB.
    Massacre: Beats D&T. Wishboard accessible. Beats Thalia+Mom. Dodges chalice on 1 but doesn't beat it or Teeg though.
    Pyroclasm: Beats Chalice, beats Thalia by herself, beats Teeg, wishboard accessible, dodges Chalice on 1 but doesn't beat it, doesn't beat Mom+Thalia or whatever.

    Anyway, I think Chain's absence is somewhat replaced by the full set of Decays, and Recall fills a role that Abrupt Decay cannot necessarily when you're looking at multiple hate cards on the board.

    Thinking about trying a wishboard that looks like this:
    1x Tendrils of Agony
    1x Empty the Warrens
    1x Past in Flames
    1x Void Snare
    1x Grapeshot
    4x Abrupt Decay
    2x Hurkyl's Recall
    1x Massacre
    1x Pyroclasm
    1x Dark Petition
    1x Bayou

    The tradeoff is losing the extra Thoughtseizes and having to rely on the built-in package in exchange for more versatility. The cards I've been thinking about trying again are Meltdown or Shattering Spree, since Chalice @ 1 will not counter the copies of Spree. The sacrifice here is the Miracles matchup- will 4 Abrupt Decay be enough without the additional discard? Will I miss playing Xantid Swarm even more?

    My number one enemies are Thorn, Chalice, Revoker, Trinisphere, Teeg, and Thalia. The deck has mainboard answers to check for and fight through countermagic, stifle, and Mindbreak Trap, and to some extent, enemy disruption, but half of my major problems come in the form of artifacts and having a Wishable answer to Chalice on 1 in G1 is looking more and more appealing. I could push the Bayou to the main as some have done to make room for it and cut a fetch, but will the number of times I wish that Bayou was a fetch instead outweigh the number of times I find use from Wishing for Shattering Spree?
    Anyway, I'm not going to be playing any major events anytime soon, so I've got plenty of time to test something like this and remind myself why the wishboard is what it is, it's not like these cards haven't been considered already. But it's not necessarily the cards themselves, it's the context of the whole sideboard and its strengths and weaknesses. One of TES's advantages is its access to a toolbox wishboard and sometimes I feel like I wish it was more....toolboxy to take advantage of being able to access solutions from there.

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