[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Dark Ritual]

Fuck the hell im not telling anybody to take my path... I am likely the most TES experienced player of course apart from Bryant and emidlin and one thing ive learned is to reach my own conclusions and make them independant of sometimes silly things iv read around here... This is the unique suggestion i can give to some that wants to master TES... hear and read things but have your own conclusion... F.e. im the one playing pulverize 2 v.i. and 1 badlands...

ROFL. If you had half of the experience that Bryant had you would actually be doing something in tournaments. Your conclusions differ from Bryant decklist wise I would wager and he's better with this deck than anyone else because he plays the deck a lot and he invented and reinvented the deck numerous times. In short, you're wrong. You have never once impressed me with anything you've posted in this or the other TES threads.

[Bahamuth]

I took this as a nostalgic memories:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post661997

Whoa I don't even remember this.

[Pelikanudo]

Whoa I don't even remember this.

Yeah man, from this page to 50 you and emidlin are just trying to convice people specifically to Bryant to play G.P. + EtW + (Therapy or disruption) main...
some pages more advanced there is me not convinced at all about those G.P....trying to arguing...

ROFL. If you had half of the experience that Bryant had you would actually be doing something in tournaments.
.

im the kind of man that plays magic as a hobby, and really dont play much...
ive done something in torunaments - the few i assist, by here the most great thing is the MKM.. i just dont travel much... today i top16!

Your conclusions differ from Bryant decklist wise I would wager and he's better with this deck than anyone else because he plays the deck a lot and he invented and reinvented the deck numerous times.
In short, you're wrong.
.

because one person has played the deck as the most means that is the best with the deck? i completely disagree. one can just play magic and becomes better than other with less experience. EDIT: Again see link where bahamut teachs why TES needs to have G.P. and Therapy and EtW main to Bryant... i believe Bryant has much more flight hours with TES and Bahamut..

You have never once impressed me with anything you've posted in this or the other TES threads.

it is ok, that was never my goal
one thing I believe i've got is to contribute to at least make some people to not decrease its C.M. number to less than 3...
just read the link i posted above and see how peoplee like bahamut tries to convice - and do not dismiss - that G.P. is in deed good...

[Bryant Cook]

You guys care way too much about credibility.

Also, Bahamuth's list was before it's time. The problem was if you remember the metagame back then it was full of Stifle & Spell Snare where Silence absolutely demolished that match-up. As the metagame shifted over the years his proposed list turned out to be pretty solid.

But in the end, who gives a fuck? Let's work on making the best end product we can and stop acting like 13 year old girls.

[Togores]

The last 2 pages:

[Bahamuth]

You guys care way too much about credibility.

Also, Bahamuth's list was before it's time. The problem was if you remember the metagame back then it was full of Stifle & Spell Snare where Silence absolutely demolished that match-up. As the metagame shifted over the years his proposed list turned out to be pretty solid.

But in the end, who gives a fuck? Let's work on making the best end product we can and stop acting like 13 year old girls.

Nono you don't understand. I was 'the man who brought you Probe/Therapy/EtW and fetch/Dual manabase'.

[Lemnear]

Nono you don't understand. I was 'the man who brought you Probe/Therapy/EtW and fetch/Dual manabase'.

You popped the idea way ahead of its time, but I have to agree with the last sentence as a standalone lol. Wasn't aware of that 2012 post

In any way, the claim of Final Fortune that the Probe/Therapy/EtW and fetch/Dual manabase was "established" by him and that "he" pushed the shift and the removal of Silence, is pure bollocks proven by the thread history I quoted

[Final Fortune]

You popped the idea way ahead of its time, but I have to agree with the last sentence as a standalone lol. Wasn't aware of that 2012 post

In any way, the claim of Final Fortune that the Probe/Therapy/EtW and fetch/Dual manabase was "established" by him and that "he" pushed the shift and the removal of Silence, is pure bollocks proven by the thread history I quoted

You're delusional, I never claimed Probe/Therapy/ETW and Fetch/Dual was established by me, I said Probe was already being universally played in Storm as soon as it was released, Cabal Therapy was already being played in ANT (an all discard based deck), Empty the Warrens had already been played in the main deck before Ad Nauseam was ever printed and the Fetch/Dual manabase was a consequece of cutting White, playing an all discard based deck and essentially merging TES with ANT. At no point did I ever claim to have invented the internet Al Gore, but if you want "proof" I was the one who convinced Bryant to cut Silence then you can eat it;

You should enjoy this, because to be honest, it rarely happens... but I was wrong and you were right. I'd prefer you keep this to yourself until the weekend is over, I'm playing the new list at the SCG:Invitational. It feature's zero white. I was playing in a fifty person event two-three weeks ago and lost three consecutive rounds to where if Silence was a little more proactive I would've been fine. You'll also see that my list features a Telemin Performance, I'm not exactly thrilled about this. I still dislike the idea of playing a 5cc sorcery as an answer to a match-up with taxing effects but with only a single slot it may be the best option. Anyway, here's the list. Bask in your glory:

4 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest

3 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam

Sideboard
1 Tropical Island
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Telemin Performance (Or a second Chain of Vapor)

If Bryant is the official flag bearer of the deck, then conversation fucking over. None of these ideas were ever "original" in Storm, and you can credit Bahamut if you want to for all I care, but taking the credit for yourself is just laughable. This is even you revisiting the idea because of what I was arguing at the time, so we all intermitantly adopted, abandoned and readopted the idea at varrying intervals depending on what we were facing at the moment.

I reviewed your latest post on all-discard and aside from Miracles I think the current metagame post-Stifle indeed opens up the possibility to pick up that idea once more even if my attempt in November was a failure, possibly because of me being to biased because of the local, specialized hate. I'll pick up my latest all-discard list with 4 Gemstone, 4 fetches, 3 Thoughtseize for a bigger testing round again. Would you mind sharing your idea/list here? I would be helpful to have a second opinion on that

[Zooligan]

Quote Originally Posted by Zooligan View Post
Wait a second Lemnear. Are you saying you always combo off G1 T1 against Elves and never see a Teeg T2? Or are you saying if you see Teeg T2 you just fold since you didn't go off T1?
Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down ... and Grapeshot!
Quote Originally Posted by Zooligan View Post
I often edit quotes to make my points more relevant.

a) I didn't edit, I truncated. I didn't think that portion of the quote was relevant as everyone knows what Grapeshot is for, it was the bullshit throwaway words preceding the words "... and Grapeshot" that I wanted some clarification on. Editing would be what you did above ascribing a direct quote to me which I did not make. Another word for it would be libel. Dictionary.com will help you with your English definitions.
b) you seem to have missed my point entirely, the point being that Lemnear's words (an actual quote, see a) above) "Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down" implies that TES is somehow impervious to hate coming down before you can go off and if it does, the pilot did something incorrect.

Look, I know you don't like me because I called you out on the Articles section of your website not working correctly (Which I see you are now redesigning, btw. You are welcome.), but I do have the utmost respect for you as a TES strategist. Perhaps even in the real world you are a great guy and nice to talk to. Your forum decor comes off abrasive. Just letting you know, like your Articles section, chit be broken.

[Lemnear]

blub

Cute. Keep quoting stuff out of (temporal) context.

If we ever move to 2-3 mainboard Thoughtseize, bet I give you credit "for mentioning it first". We however do not talk about "mentioning" or "testing" Thoughtseize, but about "pushing" 4 Therapy paired with a full Fetchland manabase as a staple build.

b) you seem to have missed my point entirely, the point being that Lemnear's words (an actual quote, see a) above) "Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down" implies that TES is somehow impervious to hate coming down before you can go off and if it does, the pilot did something incorrect.

My point was about that the decks speed is your main weapon fighting such turn 2 or turn 3 hate, but if you can't profit from this natural strength (due to mulligans, unfortunate card configuartions in hand, etc.) there is still a way to get out of some hatebear softlock with the help of the sideboard. You don't HAVE to scoop in case you are not fast enough, given you prepare your sideboard for game 1 outs in case you want to dedicate the space :)

[Bryant Cook]

a) I didn't edit, I truncated. I didn't think that portion of the quote was relevant as everyone knows what Grapeshot is for, it was the bullshit throwaway words preceding the words "... and Grapeshot" that I wanted some clarification on. Editing would be what you did above ascribing a direct quote to me which I did not make. Another word for it would be libel. Dictionary.com will help you with your English definitions.
b) you seem to have missed my point entirely, the point being that Lemnear's words (an actual quote, see a) above) "Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down" implies that TES is somehow impervious to hate coming down before you can go off and if it does, the pilot did something incorrect.

Look, I know you don't like me because I called you out on the Articles section of your website not working correctly (Which I see you are now redesigning, btw. You are welcome.), but I do have the utmost respect for you as a TES strategist. Perhaps even in the real world you are a great guy and nice to talk to. Your forum decor comes off abrasive. Just letting you know, like your Articles section, chit be broken.

You mean cutting off the part of the sentence that was relevant to the conversation? Let's spell it out. "Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down" is apart of the deck's strategy, but if that doesn't work there's Grapeshot for Gaddock Teeg. Acting like his words are ridiculous and you should just fold to Teeg is a poor way to try to prove a point. When he even mentions in the same sentence an answer.

As for my "articles section" perhaps you should watch your tone before I make all of your posts disappear because it's something I can clearly do on this public forum. Because everything here is me and none of it is you.

[kirkusjones]

The last 2 pages:

[d0nkey]

Yo I pioneered the use of Dark Ritual in this deck

[Ebonclaw]

But in the end, who gives a fuck? Let's work on making the best end product we can and stop acting like 13 year old girls.

Agreed.

I've made some bad suggestions. I've played some suboptimal cards. I held onto DR and Gemstone Mines longer than should have and tried to justify them (though part of it was getting my set of foil gemstones signed and wanting to play them just a little bit.) I've missed obvious lines of play due to reasoning things improperly. I've tried to argue for pet cards because of "my local meta." But you know what? After defending my deck, I tried the suggestions and standards that were in place. And I improved my deck and my game. And that's what we're here for. At the point the deck is right now, it's so honed and tuned that we're basically discussing the best options to deal with specific metagames. If your local meta plays a lot of artifact hate, Pulverize is probably a fine card to play. But when you go up to a wider level than local, that's what the standardized sideboard is meant top address. If you're the only Storm player in your local meta and everyone else is playing Belcher or Oops, maybe Telemin Performance isn't the worst thing in the world for you to include. Show up to an invitational with it though, and you're bound to at least have to defend your choice to a few people. Oftentimes the best way to defend your choice is to let your results speak for themselves.

If I want advice on what my board should look like for an invitational, I'm probably gonna look at whatever Bryant/Lemnear are testing and read about what they're finding is working out. If I want to find some suggestions/solutions for how to beat my local meta, their input is less valuable because they're not familiar with it like they are with a more global meta. Though if I gave them enough information about it, I'm sure I could get some good suggestions. They can be blunt, sometimes brutally so, but I value that. "That's a bad idea. Here's why." "You're using the wrong strategy, you should be doing this instead..."

Ultimately, I don't care who suggested it, I care about the results it posts and the environment it's in. Context is important and I think it needs to be mentioned and discussed before being eschewed more often. I could care less about someone getting great results in their local meta by playing IGG because Force of Will is just a completely foreign concept to that meta for some weird reason. But if someone has to stare down chalice of voice on T1 and Death and Taxes every other game, I'm much more interested in what they're doing, even if it is unconventional. What's the worst thing that happens, I playtest it and it doesn't work and I'm right back to where I started? I tweak my manabase to support Pulverize for local, and then revert it when playing on a larger scale? It's not the worst idea in the world. Innovation doesn't happen without experimentation, but sometimes someone can spot a bad experiment from a mile off, or maybe has a better suggestion because they've been there, and tried that. That's the value of this thread, there's almost always someone who can say "yeah, I've tried that, here's the problem with it."

[Zooligan]

You mean cutting off the part of the sentence that was relevant to the conversation? Let's spell it out. "Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down" is apart of the deck's strategy, but if that doesn't work there's Grapeshot for Gaddock Teeg. Acting like his words are ridiculous and you should just fold to Teeg is a poor way to try to prove a point. When he even mentions in the same sentence an answer.

As for my "articles section" perhaps you should watch your tone before I make all of your posts disappear because it's something I can clearly do on this public forum. Because everything here is me and none of it is you.

In the context of Lemnear's post, his words were ridiculous. Izor was listing some things he commonly did with Void Snare and Lemnear banged into him with ""Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down. ... and Grapeshot". Like playing Void Snare somehow made Izor an asshole who doesn't understand that one of the defining characteristics and draws to play TES are it's speed. We all know Grapeshot is an answer. Using another answer doesn't mean you don't get what TES is about. Hell, I bet even you have bounced a Teeg with Void Snare once or twice, amirite?

As for pulling content, that is exactly what happened last time. You told me the latest articles not showing up on your site was "a you problem" (you meaning me here). All the other posts of me providing evidence of how I could demonstrate it was not just me were deleted, as were the posts of others saying they had the same problem. All evidence of the BC possibly being incorrect were deleted (as i assume this post will be shortly). All that remained was "It is a you problem." So, if you want to pull content and delete posts (or have them deleted or whatever), that is your perogative.

I was just trying to point out a problem with your website. Trying to help you. If I was a client of yours and you talked to me like that when calling a development error to your attention I know what i would do. I can only assume that you conduct yourself differently in the business world than you do here, which further leads me to believe that my character assessment that I communicated to you via PM re the posts disappearing was not incorrect.

Still, love the deck and excited to see further developments of the maindeck and sideboard as the meta changes. Thanks for all your hard work.

[Shaman]

I don't want to go off-topic, but I would like to discuss one thing about TES.

I am having some trouble with three lands not giving me blue mana. I understood the recent switch to bayou maindeck, but I feel this is a high price to pay.

What are your results with this?

[Lemnear]

In the context of Lemnear's post, his words were ridiculous. Izor was listing some things he commonly did with Void Snare and Lemnear banged into him with ""Thats why you play TES. Combo before hate comes down. ... and Grapeshot". Like playing Void Snare somehow made Izor an asshole who doesn't understand that one of the defining characteristics and draws to play TES are it's speed. We all know Grapeshot is an answer. Using another answer doesn't mean you don't get what TES is about. Hell, I bet even you have bounced a Teeg with Void Snare once or twice, amirite?

The justification for VS was Iona @ black (?!), Platinum Angel (?!?!), Gaddock Teeg and more which are not only partly cringeworthy to bring up as a reasoning, but also solved by a more impactful card like Grapeshot (which I picked as example to show that VS is not uncontested). I also was pointing to the speed as a weapon against those plays, because no one hopefully wants to point me that Platinum Angel or Teeg are T1 plays. My points were:

1) VoidSnare/Massacre/etc are NOT uncontested, unique (in its job to get rid of permanents), mandatory or without potential substitutes
2) If it makes sense for battling metagame, running additional toolbox/wishboard cards is fine, but not for an unknown environment as a hail-mary-play (Ruric Thar) or to potentially fix misplays
3) Please no one justify the hail-mary-wishboard cards with ridiculous matchups (Enchantress), gamestates (Iona @ black) or based on cards no one plays these days (Platinum Angel, Leyline, etc.)

again: I did not poke Izor because of choosing to run VS, but because of point 3)

So, if you want to pull content and delete posts (or have them deleted or whatever), that is your perogative.

Bryant can NOT delete posty on TheSource if that was the topic. Sorry to jump in here :/

Edit:

I don't want to go off-topic, but I would like to discuss one thing about TES.

I am having some trouble with three lands not giving me blue mana. I understood the recent switch to bayou maindeck, but I feel this is a high price to pay.

What are your results with this?

Then return to a second Volcanic in place of the Badland. I only run two non-fetch, non-blue lands personally for a while, so I can not really help here

[d0nkey]

My favorite part about this Grapeshot discussion is that for like an entire year it was cut from 'the list' because it wasn't good enough. Now you act like it never left.

[Bryant Cook]

I don't want to go off-topic, but I would like to discuss one thing about TES.

I am having some trouble with three lands not giving me blue mana. I understood the recent switch to bayou maindeck, but I feel this is a high price to pay.

What are your results with this?

I've noticed it in a hand or two, the other option is to have one less "real" sideboard slot. It does matter either way, do what you feel is best.

[Lemnear]

My favorite part about this Grapeshot discussion is that for like an entire year it was cut from 'the list' because it wasn't good enough. Now you act like it never left.

No, I act like the card IS STILL ONE TO CONSIDER. If the main argument for VS is removing creatures like Teeg, we should at least talk about Grapeshot. I am not the biggest fan of GS personally, but I at least remember the card when talking about "solutions for creatures".

I have no idea what kind of fixation some of you have on the list on the website, trying to use it to make a point. You are aware that there is also a section about tested, extending SB cards? Are we supposed to ignore Xantid, Surgical, etc. when talking about how to adress certain issues, just because the cards are not in the list on the website?