[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Final Fortune]

So 3 MD Warrens was pretty interesting today online,

3 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

SB

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Grape Shot
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Past in Flames
1 Telemin Performance
1 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Consign/Oblivion
3 Echoing Truth
2 Rending Volley

I stole a lot of games off the back of Warrens game 1, there wasn't really anybody playing Stifle so I opened up a lot of games just by pushing Goblins on them and then SBed out the extra Warrens for the pretty standard 7 discard package and just played the deck normally after that. I really like that manabase even tho' it doesn't have a basic to it, the off color fetchlands are a pretty interesting strategy because people see the off color fetchlands and just tap out for their 1 drops without thinking about Storm as a possibility.

I'm not going to really say this is the best list or anything, but I didn't have much problems with Ad Nauseam despite the extra copies of Warrens since I could just stop short and spit 20+ attackers on the board without worrying about them being able to sweep em game 1. It definitely looks viable tho', if you think you can take advantage of the meta being soft vs Warrens.

[Bryant Cook]

Not that I like this list, but all those empties with Duress instead of Therapy hurts me.

[Pelikanudo]

@MangoPunch and to whom may interest...

Hi, that was a decent read. (I am an old dog and sure this is more usefull for starters) what I found interesting was the reference to that girl streaming MTG... I imagine someday even sharing my hobby with my girlfriend... althoutgh that is impossible, It is a good dream...

I have to say the following:
THERE IS a difference to face or not to face C.T., I dare to say that now likely C.T. decks are for me the worst match ups I face... I can face fluster, daze, triple fow, fivefold spheres... whatever, but C.T. is a shit of a card to face, I am not sure how much the loss percentage is incremented when I face an GRixis delver deck AND they draw C.T. but it has to be a great percentage difference.

The multi EtW plan is an old Plan which used to be good back in the 2012 to handle Tempo in the form of RUG which mainly played Stifle, FoW, daze and Wasteland. theoretically the same strategy should be applyed and should work vs those Grixis Delvers, BUT there is from that time to now a great difference - C.T. I have to say I've always survived to those Tempo decks withouth the need of multi EtW plan with success - until now - and I dare to say - although I didn't tested - that multiEtW plan will not work vs Grixis WITH C.T. the reason is clear: post board they can stop you enough with daze, fow, fluster, pierce UNTIL C.T. is thrown if this occurs no matter if you play 3EtW or a 4 mana card which reads: "when you cast it you win the game" because you will be discarded that card or the proper cards. I can say that I prefer even to be hymned than to be therapied as example... The hell of that card...

As i mentioned in other posts the games I was able to win vs Grixis Delver were because of:
a) they didn't draw C.T.
b) I was able to discard to death and mini EtW to the win BUT before doing this I needed to discard several flusters some stifles and fows and beeing discarded by C.T. and the fact that having multi EtW plan was 0 relevant.

there was another game vs a Control deck with C.T and Monastery Mentor which I was literally crushed - and all thanks to C.T.

I've been trying to find a way to combat those C.T. Grixis and in general those C.T. decks -because by here people is starting to notive that G.P. + C.T. is good! and by the moment I am in testing phase... my 2 Surgicals in side did not much work but even didn't have the opportunity to be tested... uniquely 1 IoK and 13rd land from side probed to be somehow good... my next try will be Ground Seal (this card invalidates DRS, Snaps, and replace itself) and now I'm looking at D.R. as a card to be considered but still no testing results about that... I don't play much MTG lately so I cannot say much... I wish I have more time to test... maybe I buy a MTGO deck and start to crush people with my 3Gemstones TES deck at some point...
By the moment: I'll see diff. things and see how they develop...

But one thing I have clear: multi EtW plan will not help me much vs those C.T. and as Lem says: having so many Grixis, people will consider that and if EtW starts to win, then people will start to put back even more -1-1 anti stuff... By here this is what happens... I even see ETruth and EE - sure apart of Toxic or Marsh C., etc... from side opp. in several decks...

By the moment fighting fire with fire is what seemed to work for me (a total of 8 discard - 7 base plus 1 from side)... but as said not solid to state as a rule.... and maybe SE work but didn't draw them when testing in tournaments...


@F.Fortune:
i have to say that likely If I have to cut 4th B.W. - sure it has nonsense - but I would put it back in the side... you know I am a very conservative TES player...
I foundtrivial: you're going to have to realize that more than 50% of your games are played post-SBs.
Related to that List you posted: I fail to see why the hell you play 0 C.T.... likely C.T. is the best card vs Fluster/Stifle which invalidates EtW...


@Lem and Jax:
I have one issue vs mutiEtW plan and it is not to show high costs from A.N. - it is the following:
Sure EtW is a 4 mana threat which is great BUT you loose the ability to use LED for that purpose and LED is just a 3mana for 0, Sure you can D.R. C.M. Petal and EtW and it is great! but if you are discarded D.R. you are dead - on the other hand you can land LED and pass the turn. I mean multiEtW plan just don't make use of LED and this bothers me much...

I agee that replacing EtW for threats is the proper move. I would replace more B.W. than I.T., maybe for the current Mr B. list: -3 B.W. + 3EtW (sure 0 B.W. left!) is the correct move, and still maintain A.N. as engine, I cannot conceive in taking out such a powerfull draw engine vs C.T. Decks.

[Final Fortune]

Not that I like this list, but all those empties with Duress instead of Therapy hurts me.

I didn't see any way to add Cabal Therapy MD, cutting disruption for Warrens made the most sense to me since you don't have to protect Warrens or need to discard, pass as opposed to Goblins pass. Cabal Therapy without Duress isn't consistent, so they went to the SB for game 2 where you need them more to deal with hate. It only felt bad vs stuff like Reanimator and ShowNTell with a faster clock, but that is not really what you are aimimg at.

[Bryant Cook]

I didn't see any way to add Cabal Therapy MD, cutting disruption for Warrens made the most sense to me since you don't have to protect Warrens or need to discard, pass as opposed to Goblins pass. Cabal Therapy without Duress isn't consistent, so they went to the SB for game 2 where you need them more to deal with hate. It only felt bad vs stuff like Reanimator and ShowNTell with a faster clock, but that is not really what you are aimimg at.

Youre losing free woms from Mind Twisting them with Therapy. -4 Duress, +4 Therapy.

Also, you should cut some tutor effects as your list is too threat dense. Add Duress in those areas.

[Final Fortune]

Youre losing free woms from Mind Twisting them with Therapy. -4 Duress, +4 Therapy.

Also, you should cut some tutor effects as your list is too threat dense. Add Duress in those areas.

I think it's win more game 1? Because if resolving the Goblins in and of themselves isn't enough to win the game then 3 MD Empty the Warrens has no merrit whatsoever. Duress is there over Cabal Therapy because it's more consistent in game 1 when you don't know what your opponent is playing, but I'll put in the 4 Cabal Therapy and cut a tutor and Ponder for 2 Duress since it's only a thought experiment anyway; I want to segway into a B/r Storm deck that doesn't use cantrips just to see what that'd be like next, I'm thinking you could cut the Ad Nauseam engine for a Past in Flames and Tendrils of Agony and play 4 Simian Spirit Guides and 4 Cabal Therapy in that space and be a super fast deck with a rock stable manabase.

[Pelikanudo]

I think it's win more game 1? Because if resolving the Goblins in and of themselves isn't enough to win the game then 3 MD Empty the Warrens has no merrit whatsoever. Duress is there over Cabal Therapy because it's more consistent in game 1 when you don't know what your opponent is playing, but I'll put in the 4 Cabal Therapy and cut a tutor and Ponder for 2 Duress since it's only a thought experiment anyway; I want to segway into a B/r Storm deck that doesn't use cantrips just to see what that'd be like next, I'm thinking you could cut the Ad Nauseam engine for a Past in Flames and Tendrils of Agony and play 4 Simian Spirit Guides and 4 Cabal Therapy in that space and be a super fast deck with a rock stable manabase.

I really don't know how much you decremented the chances of winning with so few disruption vs combo (omnishow, reanimate, ANT) decks by playing only 4 discard. Well if your meta has 0 combo decks then it's fine I believe. But I think the proper move is to take out some threats. I said -3 B.W. = +3EtW. But maybe it is better to leave at least 1 B.W...

EDIT:

Look at this list for your goal:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19222&iddeck=146118

Didn't notice the goal so... -3 B.W. seems non sense... Then..
I don't think it is a good idea anyway... Maybe less ponder but don't abandon the TryFoce

EDIT 2: I think I am going to test I. Contract for the 1st time for fun instead of D.R. and with the idea to fight discard... What do you think?

[Polski_]

Another episode of the series TheEpicStorm.com: TES MATCHUP BATTLES! is up and this time we face Lands! Giving a breakdown of the matchup that we could face in a tournament and that has been around for many many years.

http://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup-battles-lands/

Let me know your thoughts and opinions. Thank you.

- Alex Poling

[Pelikanudo]

to whom may interest...
Hi I've been toying around with the idea of going back to 3C.T. 4Silence 4Gemstones 2CoB List - call me cracy. I searched for lists in the TES Site from old eras and saw this:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...623#post772623

but with full of Silence instead of 3. my inital side - after some thoughts - is being:
1 T.Island
1 Carpet of Flowers
2 Abrupt Decay
2 E.Truth
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Grapeshot
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Bribery
1 Shatering Spree

but looking at the meta I found quite fine playing a full Silence along with D.R. from side vs all those Grixis Control and Tempo and that BR Reanimator - I mean Silence vs Surgical and Leovold and SnapsOnTheStack and even fluster is a great card. I also found Duress worse than C.T. vs Control in General and vs ANT Silence is quite fine and vs Hate Bears it's just as bad. The unique match up It could seem weaker is vs Chalice but I have lot of hate ¡n my side and lately I don't find many of these decks and duress is uniquely good on the play and when drawing in my initial 7.

I wanted to include a 13 land and looked at Tropical or Bayou but I wanted to include a land which was beeing utility also and karakas was a fine card (which allos to me to pay Silence) vs those Reanimate or teeg/thalias and BG Depths! so my initial idea is this and carpet vs Grixis Tempo/Control for stability/redundancy. and see what happens! in my before manabase I have exact the same odds as this one for drawing a G initial manasource for carpet or A.D.

maybe I am getting mad and I am - instead of advancing - just turning back, like crabs... but I'll likely play something like this in my next tournament!
the second tendrils is just that vs Control I found lot of times possible scenarios where once surgicalled B.W. I wanted my Tendrils main instead of EtW... and leaving G.S. in side is just not enough because of the opposite scenario can occur.

EDIT: Tropical instead of Karakas...

EDIT 2: well Silence was crap but I enjoyed a lot to cast D.R. under Silence and I faced a RUG which I crushed in a beauty manner!!

[Bryant Cook]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-02

[Pelikanudo]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2017-10-02

Congratulations Bryant, you finally reached the Perfect Storm List, long time took you to reach the Perfect Storm List. Sincerely congratulations. I'll still enjoy playing those Silence/D.R. althought I don't win too much...
Now you need to do the following:
a) Reach the finals of a GP
b) Concede (say to your opponent that he/she has won)

at some point that was my goal as MTG Player, however I doubt I got it... and I know that's a low impact... but this is something we need to start to do and MTG is - somehow - a way to teach each other about the fair play and that competitiveness is a bad thing in general

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post661836

[MangoPunch]

Wait... why tf is "competitiveness a bad thing in general"???

[Bryant Cook]

Wait... why tf is "competitiveness a bad thing in general"???

Because when you have no tournament results or numbers to back your claims, you need a new excuse.

[Final Fortune]

Congrats on 1st

[Lemnear]

Because when you have no tournament results or numbers to back your claims, you need a new excuse.

Guess the dood simply found a similar list from 2012 and tries to make a point based on that, not realizing that within 10 years of development pretty much every card/amount/constellation/etc popped up in discussion at some point. It's kinda annoying that some think we should give credit for deck development and testing based on namedropping cards

[Bryant Cook]

Congrats on 1st

Thanks. How's the 3MD ETW plan going? Have you tried less threats and more disruption?

Guess the dood simply found a similar list from 2012 and tries to make a point based on that, not realizing that within 10 years of development pretty much every card/amount/constellation/etc popped up in discussion at some point. It's kinda annoying that some think we should give credit for deck development and testing based on namedropping cards

Agreed. Also, the troll fails to realize that metagames and timing are factors. At the time Bahamut's list was suggested, Stifle, Spell Snare, and Spell Pierce were all VERY common in RUG delver where Silence was better at the time. Things change, but it's easier to discredit someone's work with old links (where if you read them, said user's lists were also off-mark).

[Ebonclaw]

Bryant-
Congrats on your win, I figured it was just a matter of time. I'll be piloting your current list in a small upcoming event, and was wondering if you could give some advice on sideboarding with this build due to the fact it's radically different than usual. I anticipate LED Dredge, D&T, R/B or U/B Reanimator, Tom Ross' Infect, maybe a 4cc/delver/sneak and show. It's not so much what I bring in that I have trouble with, but moreso what to take out that I find myself trying to figure out. Most of the time Ponders and a chrome mox are my choices to drop when trying to go fast with goblins, but since I'm playing more threats, do I instead want to droo tutors or a mix of the two? LED dredge seems like I want to go for a fast ad nauseum kill since they can't really interact too much but then they don't have many ways to stop a quick army of goblins either, just combo and kill them before they do the same. Infect feels like another match where I want to make a bunch of goblins and therapy their pump spells away to outrace them.
Reanimator is tougher, goblins aren't as good against a Griselbrand, but you don't have much time to work with either. Do I optimize the deck to win off a quick ad nauseum, or try and EtW and take enough reanimation spells to buy enough time to get there? Any advice you and anyone else has had sideboarding with the newest list would be greatly appreciated- I can apply much of what I've learned from your articles for the matchups where I won't be wanting to lean on EtW, but some pointers on boarding with EtW would be really helpful.

[Bryant Cook]

Bryant-
Congrats on your win, I figured it was just a matter of time. I'll be piloting your current list in a small upcoming event, and was wondering if you could give some advice on sideboarding with this build due to the fact it's radically different than usual. I anticipate LED Dredge, D&T, R/B or U/B Reanimator, Tom Ross' Infect, maybe a 4cc/delver/sneak and show. It's not so much what I bring in that I have trouble with, but moreso what to take out that I find myself trying to figure out. Most of the time Ponders and a chrome mox are my choices to drop when trying to go fast with goblins, but since I'm playing more threats, do I instead want to droo tutors or a mix of the two? LED dredge seems like I want to go for a fast ad nauseum kill since they can't really interact too much but then they don't have many ways to stop a quick army of goblins either, just combo and kill them before they do the same. Infect feels like another match where I want to make a bunch of goblins and therapy their pump spells away to outrace them.
Reanimator is tougher, goblins aren't as good against a Griselbrand, but you don't have much time to work with either. Do I optimize the deck to win off a quick ad nauseum, or try and EtW and take enough reanimation spells to buy enough time to get there? Any advice you and anyone else has had sideboarding with the newest list would be greatly appreciated- I can apply much of what I've learned from your articles for the matchups where I won't be wanting to lean on EtW, but some pointers on boarding with EtW would be really helpful.

Please read the sideboard guide. It'll show you what to do with Warrens.

[Ebonclaw]

Oh, awesome, I didn't realize it had already been updated for the new list! Thanks!

[Final Fortune]

Thanks. How's the 3MD ETW plan going? Have you tried less threats and more disruption?



Agreed. Also, the troll fails to realize that metagames and timing are factors. At the time Bahamut's list was suggested, Stifle, Spell Snare, and Spell Pierce were all VERY common in RUG delver where Silence was better at the time. Things change, but it's easier to discredit someone's work with old links (where if you read them, said user's lists were also off-mark).

I did, I was removing tutors and adding disruption when I realized MDing multiple Empty the Warrens made a lot more sense in ANT than it does in TES, so I ended up with an ANT deck that cut Ad Nauseam and Dark Petitions for Empty the Warrens and some Cabal Rituals for Simian Spirit Guides and have had a lot of fun with it. I'm pretty sure it's just better as a SB plan tho', because there are a lot of decks where you don't want to have to commit Goblins against.