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Thread: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

  1. #8541

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelikanudo View Post
    Hi!
    I've been toying around with the idea of DD/AoI, and at its simplest there are some options:

    beeing AoI and DD in side for 1st games:
    the common pile is having AoI in main: BW,LED,LED,GP,AoI, you just need: Cantrip+2R then U,
    the you can add more cantrips and/or IT to the equation and reduce mana costs: Ex.: Ponder+GP:, you just need: U! and the pile would be: BW,LED,LED,AoI,LED.

    if these examples come from having AoI in base then you can use this strategy for 2nd and 3rd games, if not, then you have that path also but adding 1R to the mana cost.
    then you can have a hand like Ponder,GP,BW,Petal,RoF,D.R,Land and landed land and win. this is just an example of scenario but there are lots more!
    the important aspect is that you have lines with BW as a threat that do not go through GY/simetrical/LifeCost AND the manacosts just sometimes are ridiculous - you just can set up for DD with BW and just a GP + BBB2R is needed to win or BBBU with 1Cantrips+GP or BBBB1 with IT+GP...

    One thing I like about AoI is that is perfectly castable and doesn't have impediments like IU or IC..., so adding 1 to the main even will increase speed.

    well sure maybe this is nonsense... but i just like to try things to my inmutable TES deck... but having all these soo funny options at just the cost of 2 side slots... You know I'm very optimistic...


    Opinions?
    I'd love for Doomsday to be playable in TES as I love the card and having an engine that gets around Teeg is very real. However, having to play AoI to support Doomsday is going to hurt the deck more than it will help it. It'll be neat to hear how your testing goes though.
    Grapeshot on StormBoards

  2. #8542
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_D View Post
    I'd love for Doomsday to be playable in TES as I love the card and having an engine that gets around Teeg is very real. However, having to play AoI to support Doomsday is going to hurt the deck more than it will help it. It'll be neat to hear how your testing goes though.
    Yesterday was the 1st testing... but not much testing was done only a 4 round tournament and needed to go out on 3rd round.
    it was 1CullingTheWeak round which I won, an AN deck which I lost and a 4C Control deck which I won.
    it is in deed sad to say that the 2 slots I cut were 2 IoK which vs AN would have helped. I just sided vs AN 1 AoI and nothing else but was too much optimistic about the match up as I usually win with no effort - I dropped 12 Gobs OtP 1st turn hoping to not to loose on his 2nd turn and having the option to draw IT/BW/cantrip into discard or discard itself in the meantime. the 2nd game was just a 1st turn win from his side. sad.

    I just have 2AD 2ET and 2IoK/Surgical/Extirpate/Xantid/MoreTendrils/MoreEtW/ etc available slots. In deed DP in my side has not been doing a good job for me lately - it is likely the less used slot which I sometimes change for other cards like DR, etc. so maybe adding 1 IoK for the DP can help.

    The plan I have with DD/AoI is just to side AoI for a EtW and 1 CM for 1 Bayou vs general Control decks but really didn't do this vs 4CC what I made vs 4CC was -2Ponder-1CM=+1AD+1Bayou+1AoI - next I realized that the plan to setup a pile for leovold was nonsense... so maybe just -1ponder is ok. I really dislike taking out ponder when I side in AoI for obvious reasons, then having the option to just side it in for the EtW seems correct for example vs miracles. and also vs Combo/Even agro like Grixis (EtW stays vs Grixis).

    I play magic from time to time and legacy is not a promoted format by here... so really do not have access to real tests. but hey! I just play mtg to spend a good time! Would be good If someone dares to test this... I find sad that no much paths are explored and when AoI was released I really found tons of options on the stack to be tested... I wonder why PiF base was tested but not this option as I saw cleat PiF an error... likely this DD is also an error but I expose the fact that 1 has been tested and the other didn't.

    just out of cusriosity: I used to play TNT deck long time ago and a new card was spoled: Ubuntu the last recoking - like a Damnation by 3 mana. In TNT I believe it is great, I really do not know how good it could be in TES but this card just destroy ALL creatures by 3 mana - ths is something that at some point I'd like to test.
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  3. #8543

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    I think that Badlands is way better than Volc post board in a lot of MUs.
    IMO the worst deck matchup right now is Grixis Delver and probably BUG. Cutting Island seems just wrong. With your list the only card you side in is TS, definetly worse than the 2nd EtW from stock list.
    Also I really dislike tutorable answers, they are slow in matchups where you want to be as fast as possible. I really like tutorable win conditions so Telemin Performance is pretty good.
    Xantid Swarm are not for wasteland decks but for S&T and Miracles, I don't think they are a flex slot right now, Miracles numbers are growing up because the deck is good and have a favourable Grixis Delver MU.
    I imagine Badlands is better than Volcanic Island post-board if you have to SB in Abrupt Decay, but generally speaking Chain of Vapour is enough vs D&T and its ilk and Miracles won't put your manabase under pressure so we're talking about Eldrazi then?

    Multiple Empty the Warrens can work against you just as much as they can work for you, if they MD Stifle or SB Flusterstorm I'd rather not consign myself to one line of play.

    Xantid Swarm is only good against Miracles and Show&Tell tho', where discard is universally good across the board. I think Bayou and Abrupt Decay are already a big concession to Miracles as it is.

    Massacre is pretty fast as far as hate goes, it'll clear their Ethersworn Cannonist along with their clock most of the time. Consign/Oblivion might be slow, but it stops them from just mulling into Chalice of the Void or Leyline of Sanctity.

    I think Telemin Performance and Diminishing Returns basically serve the same functions in the deck, I generally switch between the two in the SB and Dark Petition, Infernal Tutor and the 3rd Duress between the SB and MD - these are really minor tweaks.

    I'm pretty sure Island is just stretching the manabase, its two less fetchlands for Swamp and Bayou and it gets increasingly worse post-board. For me it's a bit inconsistent to argue for Badlands over Volcanic Island with the post-board argument but give Island a pass when its an order of magnitude more restrictive. There is a lot to be said for consistent mulligans, color access and 9 ways to a Swamp.

    But regardless we are all our own judges in the end, so do whatever gets you results.

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  6. #8546

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Great content as always. Your website is an absolute treasure.

  7. #8547

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm


  8. #8548

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    New TES: Matchup Battles - Turbo Depths

    http://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup-...-turbo-depths/

  9. #8549

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Polski_ View Post
    New TES: Matchup Battles - Turbo Depths

    http://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup-...-turbo-depths/
    Thanks for another great article!

    I think I have found an alternative line for game two in your example, why not play:

    LED -> Chain on LED, copy by saccing volcanic, target his lotus petal. This forces the opponent to make a decision, and regardless of choosing rotating for bog or making a 20/20 you are free to play

    Mire, fetch badlands, rite, rite, rite, led again, wish crack led, get dark petition, tutor, tendrils for the kill if he played crop rotation, otherwise you need to go for a pif loop to get to 10 storm.

    Or am I missing some crucial thing here?

    Edit: I've faced turbo depths decks playing maindeck Tabernacle, so empty the warrens could be a very risky line to take.

    Edit2: I did miss something crucial, opp has spirit guide in hand to pay for crop rotation. My line is just bad then. Move along, nothing to see here.

  10. #8550

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by Klirre View Post
    Thanks for another great article!

    I think I have found an alternative line for game two in your example, why not play:

    LED -> Chain on LED, copy by saccing volcanic, target his lotus petal. This forces the opponent to make a decision, and regardless of choosing rotating for bog or making a 20/20 you are free to play

    Mire, fetch badlands, rite, rite, rite, led again, wish crack led, get dark petition, tutor, tendrils for the kill if he played crop rotation, otherwise you need to go for a pif loop to get to 10 storm.

    Or am I missing some crucial thing here?

    Edit: I've faced turbo depths decks playing maindeck Tabernacle, so empty the warrens could be a very risky line to take.

    Edit2: I did miss something crucial, opp has spirit guide in hand to pay for crop rotation. My line is just bad then. Move along, nothing to see here.
    New TES player, but very experienced depths player here. 95% of lists don't run tabernacle in the 75. Remember, Depths is still a quasi-budget deck and tabernacle doesn't really synergize with our gameplan. What you should be aware of is golgari charm/deluge.

  11. #8551

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by jdmdave View Post
    New TES player, but very experienced depths player here. 95% of lists don't run tabernacle in the 75. Remember, Depths is still a quasi-budget deck and tabernacle doesn't really synergize with our gameplan. What you should be aware of is golgari charm/deluge.
    Interesting info, thanks!

    I suppose I'm still a new TES player too, I've had the deck for a long time but I rarely get the chance to play. I've played vs depths on modo one time, don't remember if I saw Tabernacle then. But I do know my local meta has a guy playing it in the maindeck.

  12. #8552

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    I've been having a miserable time on MODO today, I've gone 2-8 against all prison decks and decks packing hard answers in the main. I've been doing pretty well up until late, and the planets just seem to be aligning not in my favor. I'm usually going 3-2 or 4-1 except for the string of leagues today.

    My list is the previous list that Bryant Cook 5-0'd with, I was wondering if the Echoing Truths he brought to Worcester is a better slot in the side compared to the third Decay.

  13. #8553
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    long time I don't post here. but hey! I have to have a reason!

    nice to see in a event as worcester 2 TES list - the AJ Kerrigan list seems curious about the no PiF side slot. I would cut other slots but 1 thing I have to clear is that 4th therapy belongs to the 75 without a doubt. nice to see that.
    Long time ago I cut Dark Petition but still leave PiF. I can say for me at least the only 2 reasons why I keep PiF side is that
    a) it provides me a way to comfortably win If I need to pass the turn post A.N.
    b) involves side strategy of 1ET to take it vs Leyline.

    for me a) is key but maybe just does not worth..

    however I recognize that I don't use it very often due to SE from side or everywhere DRS. sure sometimes you reach a bord of no DRS and beeing dicarded. not too often...

    just a question to AJ if he is by here. do you use DP enough to worth it? I just used it to +1storm for EtW which is not enough for me...

    if interested now I am at 2 Extirpate - I think they are fine. still 3GM not sre If Ill go back to 4 again... and same as always.
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  14. #8554

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    My report from last weekend! I plan on swapping out the twitch embeds for youtube once SCG uploads the videos.

    Enjoy!

    http://theepicstorm.com/scg-worceste...-04-2018-16th/

  15. #8555

  16. #8556

  17. #8557
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    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    It has been some time since I last played Legacy and after two to three leagues on Magic Online with ANT, I was sick of casting cantrip after cantrip and took TES for a spin. I took the latest list (I think you called it 4.1 in the video regarding SCG Worcester) and played it through some leagues. After some matches I figured out, why you had three Empty the Warrens in the sideboard and just how you described my win rate against Delver decks went up. I think I haven't lost a match against Delver since I started to bring in two additional copies of Empty the Warrens. Though I board differently than the plans you described in the video. I take out 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Infernal Tutor, 3 Duress and bring in 1 Bayou, 2 Xantid Swarm and 2 Empty the Warrens. I thought playing Swarm on turn one allows me to get around all those softcounters (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm) they play against us. I have no fucking clue wether that is wrong or right, but it worked for me thus far. But glad to hear your thoughts on it. I will give it a try in my upcoming leagues.

    I have some questions regarding your thoughts on your current list. I am almost sure that some of them are being covered on your site or previously in this thread, but I don't have the time to read up two years worth of information, therefor it would be really nice if you could answer me here:

    • Whenever I want to be fast and I bring in Tendrils of Agony for Empty the Warrens, I also board out 1 Infernal Tutor to be able to go for Wish -> Infernal -> Tendrils. In your experience, is this line always covered by the Dark Petition in the board?
    • Why is the Basic Island in the main? I am playing the old manabase of 8 Fetch, 2 Usea, 1 Volcanic, 1 Swamp, 1 Badlands and I haven't had a match so far, where I wanted to fetch for it. Isn't it almost always better to have the Usea to be able to cast cantrip on turn 1 and a Discard spell/Dark Ritual off it on turn 2?
    • In your SCG Worcester video, you described your boarding against Miracles and you explained that you take out 4 Ponder. I never thought about taking out Ponder. Are there any other matchups, where you also touch them? Thinking about it, it might make sense against Blood Moon/Stompy decks, since you also want to be fast and you can get their lock pieces with Discard spells.
    • It seems to me, that there are a lot of matchups, where you want to be fast at the moment (Miracles, Chalice decks, Mirror, Turbo Depths). Could the second Ad Nauseam be good in the sideboard to bring it in in those matchups?

    Anyway I am having a lot of fun with the deck, figuring out what to do in certain matchups and I just wanted to say thank you for putting up all these resources.

  18. #8558

  19. #8559

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    Quote Originally Posted by flrn View Post
    It has been some time since I last played Legacy and after two to three leagues on Magic Online with ANT, I was sick of casting cantrip after cantrip and took TES for a spin. I took the latest list (I think you called it 4.1 in the video regarding SCG Worcester) and played it through some leagues. After some matches I figured out, why you had three Empty the Warrens in the sideboard and just how you described my win rate against Delver decks went up. I think I haven't lost a match against Delver since I started to bring in two additional copies of Empty the Warrens. Though I board differently than the plans you described in the video. I take out 1 Chrome Mox, 1 Infernal Tutor, 3 Duress and bring in 1 Bayou, 2 Xantid Swarm and 2 Empty the Warrens. I thought playing Swarm on turn one allows me to get around all those softcounters (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm) they play against us. I have no fucking clue wether that is wrong or right, but it worked for me thus far. But glad to hear your thoughts on it. I will give it a try in my upcoming leagues.

    I have some questions regarding your thoughts on your current list. I am almost sure that some of them are being covered on your site or previously in this thread, but I don't have the time to read up two years worth of information, therefor it would be really nice if you could answer me here:

    • Whenever I want to be fast and I bring in Tendrils of Agony for Empty the Warrens, I also board out 1 Infernal Tutor to be able to go for Wish -> Infernal -> Tendrils. In your experience, is this line always covered by the Dark Petition in the board?
    • Why is the Basic Island in the main? I am playing the old manabase of 8 Fetch, 2 Usea, 1 Volcanic, 1 Swamp, 1 Badlands and I haven't had a match so far, where I wanted to fetch for it. Isn't it almost always better to have the Usea to be able to cast cantrip on turn 1 and a Discard spell/Dark Ritual off it on turn 2?
    • In your SCG Worcester video, you described your boarding against Miracles and you explained that you take out 4 Ponder. I never thought about taking out Ponder. Are there any other matchups, where you also touch them? Thinking about it, it might make sense against Blood Moon/Stompy decks, since you also want to be fast and you can get their lock pieces with Discard spells.
    • It seems to me, that there are a lot of matchups, where you want to be fast at the moment (Miracles, Chalice decks, Mirror, Turbo Depths). Could the second Ad Nauseam be good in the sideboard to bring it in in those matchups?

    Anyway I am having a lot of fun with the deck, figuring out what to do in certain matchups and I just wanted to say thank you for putting up all these resources.


    Luckily for you Bryant has done an excellent job outlying answers to your questions on the website in an organized fashion that it won't take you very long to find them.

    In regards to your Ponder questions and other sideboarding decisions that we make and why there is an extensive guide right here -
    https://theepicstorm.com/sideboard-guide/

    To help answer your questions about specifics main deck choices like the basic island there is also a convenient section for that here -
    https://theepicstorm.com/card-choices/


    All of the information youre looking for is neatly categorized for easy filtering. Hopefully this answers your questions. If there are any further questions after reading through these we will all gladly help.

  20. #8560

    Re: [Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

    New TES Matchup Battles - Eldrazi

    https://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup-battles-eldrazi/

    Thanks for reading!

    - Alex Poling

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