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Thread: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

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    [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I. Theory
    MUD is a deck archetype that utilizes mana acceleration (through Sol-lands and artifact sources) and artifact based utility/synergies to play other artifact pieces that either lock your opponent out of the game or artifact creatures that outclass most of your opponent’s creatures. The strength of the archetype lies in its ability to have explosive opening turns to establish board position in which your opponent cannot recover or simply lose. Though as powerful as the strategy sounds, like everything else in life, it always comes with a cost (to keep it balanced); you have to have the right pieces at hand to pull off such powerful openings, hence making it inconsistent at times.


    II. History
    MUD derived from Workshop decks from Type 1 and Type 1.5 right before the split. When the Vintage-Legacy split happened, one of the cards banned in Legacy was its namesake card – Mishra’s Workshop. Though Workshop was banned, many attempted to port the archetype from Type 1 onto Legacy. This eventually led to the Stompy archetypes (Dragon/Sea Stompy) and colored Stax variants (Armageddon Stax). Though they follow some principles of a Workshop-based archetype, they are not quite the same in terms of functionality.

    III. Development

    1. 5/3
    The first iterations of Legacy MUD archetype showed up on the Source under the moniker 5/3 (an ode to Juggernaut). It was the closest thing to what its Vintage counterpart had to offer: an artifact-based lockdown deck in tandem with artifact threats. Unfortunately it took quite a while for the archetype to take off. Stompy archetypes were more popular due to the fact that they simply had better tools at the time. Even colored Stax variants (mainly Armageddon Stax) had more tools compared to the conventional MUD list at the time.

    2. 2009
    When the format split happened in 2004, most of MUD’s important tools were simply banned from the format. This was the main reason why the archetype was inferior in the new format. Without the acceleration it needed, its lock pieces and threats simply cannot keep up with the speed of the format. While substitutes were made (Power Moxen to Mox Diamonds and Lotus Petals/Mishra’s Workshop to Sol-lands), they simply were not enough.

    However in 2009, the DCI finally decided to allow one of MUD’s key acceleration component in the format in the form of Metalworker. This was then followed by Grim Monolith shortly. Also at around the same time, with the release of Worldwake, Lodestone Golem was introduced to the format. Traditionally, Juggernaut would have been the choice beater for MUD. Lodestone Golem eventually took that title because not only it was a threat but also lockpiece without having a drawback attached to it. In that year, MUD gained key acceleration and a lockdown piece that can actually attack. The development of the archetype then followed through.

    3. Mirrodin 2.0
    The modernized Legacy MUD took form during the advent of Scars of Mirrodin Block. It gained a multitude of tools from acceleration (Mox Opal), to a solid beater (Wurmcoil Engine), to a board control piece (Steel Hellkite). It even gained utility (Kuldotha Forgemaster) and a means to instantly win out of nowhere (Blighsteel Colossus + Lightning Greaves). Later through the introduction of the Mirrodin Block, Michael Bomholt (creator of Iggy Pop – the predecessor to the modern Ritual-Based combo archetype) came second at a StarCityGames Legacy Open in Indianapolis with a modernized MUD list. The list featured tools from Urza block and both Mirrodin blocks.

    IV. Structure
    There are actually different variations to the MUD archetype but within the archetype, most MUD lists follow a certain structure. The structure usually goes as:

    1. Sol-lands – These refer to Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors and to some degree Crystal Vein. In a format that lacks Mishra’s Workshop, they are the next best substitute. They provide acceleration that helps in casting mana-hungry artifacts. They are named after Sol Ring.

    2. Utility Lands – In a deck that runs minimal colors, the colorless drawback of most utility lands almost does not exist. Here are the top Utility Lands that are used within the archetype:

    -Buried Ruin: in the variations that do not use Goblin Welder, Buried Ruin is a good way to recur destroyed/countered artifacts.

    -Cavern of Souls: in a format where blue is played everywhere, permission is very common. Cavern of Souls help resolve threats (especially if you heavily invest on them). While the deck is not tribal, there are a lot of shared creature types within lists (Construct and Golem). It is also a good way to sneak in a Goblin Welder under an active Chalice at one.

    -Mishra's Factory: during the early game, it can act as a land and once you get enough lands, Factories can act as a beater. They really shine in more board controlling/Stax builds.

    -Wasteland: acts as a means to get rid of your opponent's utility lands or mana denial once you've resolved a board presence.

    -Rishadan Port: they act as mana denial once you've resolve board presence (along with Wasteland)

    -Ghost Quarter: helps get rid of your opponent utility lands (along with Wasteland). It can also act as a pseudo-fetchland for lists that run color splashes (as it can grab your own basic land if you choose to run them)

    -Cloudpost/Glimmerpost/Vesuva: also known as the 12-post package. They are use to produce a lot of mana outside of mana artifacts and as a backup to Sol lands.

    3. Artifact Mana Sources – Not only they provide acceleration, they also enable different tools just for being artifacts. They enable Metalworkers, Kuldotha Forgemasters and Goblin Welders to name a few. Here are some common artifact mana sources the archetype utilizes:

    -Metalworker: the premier artifact acceleration of the archetype. There was a reason why this card was banned. Though fragile, an unmolested Metalworker could and will win you games.

    -Grim Monolith: this is second to Metalworker when it comes to acceleration. When paired with Voltaic Key, it can provide a lot of mana with little invesment.

    -Darksteel Citadel: an uncounterable artifact mana source and a non-basic Wasteland-proof land.

    -Great Furnace/Seat of the Synod and the rest: another uncounterable artifact mana source that provides the color of your choice, at the cost of a land drop and being a Wasteland target. They're usually used in splashed versions.

    -Mox Opal/Mox Diamond/Lotus Petal: artifact mana sources that provide any color. They also provide as acceleration in the early game as they cost as long as certain conditions are met.

    -Thran Dynamo: provides not only acceleration but mana stability for mid-late game.
    4. Lock Pieces/Protection – They either pave the way for your threats to be established or help prevent the opponent from answering an established threat:

    -Lodestone Golem: not a lot of decks in Legacy run artifacts and these Golems can often slow decks as you accelerate into board presence/threats. They can also act as a threat if not answered.

    -Chalice of the Void: a Chalice at one is just devastating to a lot of decks as most of their key spells costs one. They also stop the most common creature removal out there: Swords to Plowshares

    -Trinisphere: a lot of Legacy decks run on a low mana curve and a lot of spells have alternative costs that do not require mana. Trinisphere exploits this trend while leaving the deck virtually unaffected.

    -Tangle Wire: they are usually used as a means to control an established board by forcing the opponent to tap their lands or creatures.

    -Goblin Welder: while they don't slow the opponent down, they do recur destroyed/countered key artifacts. It can also act as a pseudo-protection by 'hiding' artifacts onto the graveyard if they were to be exiled/returned back to your hand or library.

    -Spellskite: like Welders, they don't slow the opponent down but can provide a nice wall (0/4 body) but their primary job is to protect other artifacts on the field.

    -Lightning Greaves: they don't slow the opponent down or help accelerate into your threats but not only they can help protect your robots/utility creatures, the haste it provides can sometime swing the game into your favor if the opponent is unprepared.

    -Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon: in a format with greedy land bases, Moon effects are usually devastating while they help negate the drawbacks of the Sol lands. This is a tech learned from Dragon Stompy.

    -Smokestack: if used properly (in junction with Tangle Wire) it could lock the opponent's board with ease. They are more geared to full lockdown (Stax) versions and are rarely utilized in this kind of deck.
    5. Threats – Any deck needs its threats to win the game, whether it be a horde of creatures, a game winning Planeswalker, combo pieces or a chain of spells. MUD wins by resolving artifact creatures that outclass other conventional creatures (Robots) to plow through the opponent's life points. Here are some of the threats used in MUD:

    -Wurmcoil Engine: the premier threat of this deck. Achieving six mana isn't is hard task to achieve in this deck. The 6/6 body is no laughing matter and it's attributes make it hard to kill. But once killed, it replaces itself, making it hard to deal with. The lifelink negates the life loss from Ancient Tomb and from early damage from the opponent and the deathtouch means that it can be on the defensive end even against bigger threats.

    -Steel Hellkite: a backup threat behind Wurmcoil. Though not as efficient as Wurmcoil pound per pound, it does come with evasion and once it connects, it can clear the opponent's board.

    -Sundering Titan: while harder to cast than Wurmcoil, once it resolves it can set the opponent far behind by destroying the opponent's lands. Removing it is also a dilemma for the opponent as they could be set back even more. It is usually a Forgemaster target.

    -Kuldotha Forgemaster: while itself is not threatening; once it becomes active it's ability can be devastating. It's "tinker" ability can get you silver bullet robots that could turn the tides of the game.

    -Myr Battlesphere: a great all-around robot in certain lists. It can provide offense as it can deal up to 12 damage if not blocked (or can get through up to 4 damage if it attacks) . It can provide defense if multiple blockers are needed. It can provide Forgemaster fuel if there is an active one that needs to be activated.

    -Blightsteel Colossus: this is usually a Forgemaster target as it is next to impossible to hardcast or to reanimate via Welder but if you've managed to catch your opponent's pant's down, it will win you games out of nowhere.

    -Platinum Emperion/Platinum Angel: another typical Forgemaster target. If properly protected, these pieces can win games even Blightsteel can't, especially from a losing position.

    -Batterskull: while not as great as the threats above, it's very efficient against aggro. Also with the rise of U/W based control, it can be a great answer against Humility. It is also good against Swords to Plowshares.

    -Soul of New Phyrexian: it's as big as a Wurmcoil Engine that has the ability to protect itself and the rest of your permanents from destroy effects. It can also do this even if it was in the graveyard. The problem with this card is it still can't dodge Swords to Plowshares and Terminus. With all that said, the card still lacks testing to be proven on whether or not it's playable in MUD.

    -Scuttling Doom Engine: this card has less utility than the other threats above but it does deal damage when it gets destroyed. This can create a synergy with Goblin Welder or even Daretti when it needs to be (possibly under Ensnaring Bridge)
    V. Add Ons
    With the main structure above, it is still helpful to add a couple tools within the deck to help it against a certain meta. Here are some common add ons the deck usually have (on top of having Forgemaster targets):

    -Voltaic Key: when paired with artifact mana accelerants, it can help provide a lot of mana. It can also provide utility by having multiple draws (with Sensei’s Divining Top) or have multiple Forgemaster activations.

    -Sensei's Divining Top/Scroll Rack: these can provide card filters and help the deck's topdeck inconsistency. It can also help enable Miracle cards that could help this deck such as Reforge the Soul

    -Thousand-Year Elixir: provides haste to your utility creatures and also untaps them for a second use at the same turn.

    -Staff of Domination: it combos with Metalworker (and 3+ artifacts in your hand). It works by tapping Metalworker for 6 mana (revealing 3 artifacts from your hand), using 3 mana to untap Metalworker (tapping Staff of Domination) and another mana to untap the Staff, netting you two mana in the process. You can generate tons of mana when put on a loop and once you have an ample amount of mana, you can then use Staff of Domination to tap/untap every other creature on the field, gain a lot of life and draw as many cards as you want from your library and try to win from there.

    -Crucible of Worlds : can recur your lands that either been destroyed or sacrificed to a trigger. When paired with Wasteland, it can lock certain decks.

    -All is Dust: board sweeper that clears any colored problem permanents.

    -Duplicant/Spine of Ish Sah: they're usually Forgemaster targets but can still be run in multiples. They act as the deck's spot removal of choice.

    -Phyrexian Metamorph: while not helpful if seen in multiples, they can be helpful at certain times as they can act as protection (having mulitples of utility artifact/creatures on the field), 'snapcast' enters-the-battlefield creatures or simply a Legendary creature/artifact creature.

    -Thirst for Knowledge/Thoughtcast: additional draw effects that has a minor synergy with the archetype.

    -Faithless Looting/Dangerous Wager/Tormenting Voice: like the mentioned cards above but in red splash. While sometimes they're not card advantage (like the cards above), they can provide a discard outlet for Welder (and being in the same color means its less harsh on the mana-base).

    -Gamble: additional tutor effect for red splashes. It can essentially tutor everything and it's drawback can be negated via recursion pieces such as Goblin Welder and Crucible of Worlds.
    VI. Co-Pilots (aka Planeswalkers)
    These cards are simulated players within the game. They could provide utility and sheer power that mono and poly artifacts can't usually provide.

    -Karn Liberated: Karn can provide an answer (built in "vindicate", disruption (discard) and win condition (restart the game with a robot with "haste" on the field).

    -Daretti, Scrap Savant: Daretti can provide much card selection that the MUD archetype typically lacks. It can also weld back destroyed/discarded artifacts. It's ultimate can also create a lock or combo with pieces such as Contagion Engine. The main issue with Daretti is it requires red to cast and tends to be a build around card like Welder.

    -Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: Ugin can provide something the other two above can't: catch up on a losing board. While Karn can get rid of a problematic permanent, it will have a hard time dealing with multiple threats and pieces all at once. While it's ultimate will not win you the game right away, it's first two abilities is relevant enough to help this archetype.
    VII. Proven Variations
    Since the inception of the modernized Legacy MUD, there has been multiple proven variations that have been placing well in tournaments. These variations are:

    1. MUD Stompy - This variation usually relies on Sphere/Chalice effects to slow or completely stop the opponent from establishing a board presence. The Sphere/Chalice effects also acts as a means of protection to whatever threat it could establish on the board. This variation is usually colorless and rarely relies on cheating its threats onto the field. While it can be explosive, it usually follows a midrange gameplan. Here is a sample list of the MUD Stompy variation:

    Deck list by Achim London (Fropper) that came 5th at a 145-man Dutch Legacy tournament:
    These versions are typically better against Combo meta, whether the combo are ritual/storm based, Show and Tell based or graveyard based. It also does a fine job against B/G/x midrange and blue-based tempo decks.

    2. Welder Build – This variation does not rely as much to Sphere/Chalice effects to slow the opponent and to protect its threats. Instead, Welder versions tries to lay its threats down on the field in multiple and fast ways. It splashes red to gain utility from Goblin Welder as not only it can pseudo-protect artifacts, it can also cheat robots onto the field by recursion. Unlike its Stompy counterpart, Welder versions go on a comboesque gameplan; relying on the early turns to quick steal a win from the opponent. Here is a sample list of a Welder Version:

    Deck list by Zac Hicks that came first at a StarCityGames Legacy Open in Memphis:
    These versions are typically better against an Aggro meta, where it can race your opponent. It also fairs well against control decks because of the utility Goblin Welder provides.

    3. 12-Post MUD – This variation takes advantage of the Locus lands to produce a lot of mana to power out heavy hitting robots. It has a similar gameplan as MUD Stompy but doesn't heavy rely on artifact based mana. Unlike the Stompy lists, this variation utilizes card combinations to quickly end games such as Metalworker + Staff of Domination and Kuldotha Forgemaster + Lightning Greaves + Blightsteel Colossus. Here's a sample of 12-Post MUD:

    Deck list by Greg Price that top 4 at the first WotC's Eternal Weekend:
    These variations are great in a midrange metagame and decks that prey on the midrange. However, its mana base is the least stable as it is the easiest to disrupt.

    As of Dragons of Tarkir, this variation seems to be the most popular out of the three and has put better results than the others. This seems to be the agreed standard shell for it at the moment:

    VIII. To Be Discussed Cards and Proposed Strategies
    Throughout the development of the MUD archetype, there has been cards that have been discussed to improve the archetype under certain metagames.


    1. To Be Discussed Cards/Needs More Testing – Here are some cards that either needs to be testing or only belong as niche to certain lists:

    -Copper Gnome: this used to be discussed in order get around permission which is ubiquitous in the format. Although with the printing of Cavern of Souls, Copper Gnome isn't seem to be needed anymore. However, it can still be used to cheat higher casting cost robots and artifacts onto the field (like an artifact, one sided Show and Tell)

    -Karn, Silver Golem: on certain lists that run lower threat count and has a high concentration of lock pieces (Stax-like builds), this iteration of Karn can be used to turn those lock pieces into threats.

    -Masticore/Razormane Masticore: such Masticores can be used to both control the field and as a discard outlet to further abuse Goblin Welder. However the downside is that the discard is not optional and can be detrimental in certain situations.

    -Painter's Servant+Grindstone combo: a two card combo that can be run to quickly win games out of nowhere. However, with Emrakul in a lot of lists, its hard to win with this combo. It also needs to be built around to be fully effective.

    -Scarecrone: another means of recursion for destroyed/countered artifact creatures. It can also be used as a card draw when in multiples.

    -Solemn Simulacrum: great means of card advantage in certain lists. Unfortunately, not a lot of lists run basic lands so its 'enter-the-battlefield' trigger cannot be abused in this archetype.

    -Su-Chi: this used to be a great beater during the development of the archetype's predecessor 5/3.dec. The 'when-it-dies' trigger is somehow useful in providing mana if needed (especially with Goblin Welder or simply untapping Grim Monoliths)

    -Meteorite: it deals 2 damage when it enters the field and can provide colored mana when its needed but it's effect might seem too little for 5 mana.

    -Memory Jar: it's a draw seven that also enables Welder. Not to mention it can be brought back by Welder all over again to have you keep drawing seven cards. The issue with the card is its banned in Legacy.

    -Staff of Nin: in the right circumstances, this can be the Dark Confidant of the deck. It draws you extra cards (which is great in supporting Metalworkers) and can get rid of X/1 creatures, or just deal damage to players/planeswalkers.
    2. Other Proposed Forgemaster Targets

    -Contagion Engine: a great means to deal with weenie-based decks, although it deemed to be not needed as MUD can have better options.

    -Mindslaver: essentially a Time Walk that can also devastate the opponent depending on what he/she is piloting.

    -Naked Singularity: a great means to completely lock certain mono/two-color decks that rely on land with basic land types (A reverse Blood Moon/Sundering Titan effect)

    -Nevinyrral's Disk/Scourglass: a tutorable means to clear the board. While Scourglass's aftermath is less devastating to the deck, it is also next to impossible to hardcast.
    3. Proposed Strategies

    -Stoneforge 8-Ball: 8-Ball strategy is essentially a white (and blue) splash MUD that uses Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere along with weenie-like artifact creatures (Porcelain Legionnaire/Steel Overseer or utilizing Stoneforge Mystic to cheat equipments onto the field to create an advantageous board position while the opponent is slowed or locked out of the game. Unlike a typical MUD build, it rarely uses the big robots that are typically in the archetype's creature base.

    -Deep Blue: Deep Blue strategy relies on the color blue to gain more card advantage. It is somehow similar to the already established Faerie Stompy decks. The strategy usually runs Esperzoa to 'rebuy' cards such as Grim Monolith and Ichor Wellspring. It also sometimes uses Master Transmuter to cheat artifacts onto the field, as well as to create tricks with certain artifacts such as 'untapping' them or protecting them. Some versions also use Master of Etherium as threats. With the higher concentration of blue cards in certain lists, they can afford to run Force of Will for protection.

    -Void Stacks: Void Stacks is a proposed strategy that utilizes Nether Void in junction to Chalice of the Void to lock the opponent out of the game. It also uses Cavern of Souls to get creatures through Nether Void. It also uses targeted discard to preemptively deal with problematic cards.

    -Godo Stompy: Godo Stompy is a red-splashed MUD stompy deck that utilizes Godo, Bandit Warlord to abuse Batterskull and other utility equipments. Unlike the other “proven “ red splash version, a lot of these lists do not run Goblin Welder.

    -Daretti Stax: Daretti Stax is a proposed strategy that revolves around Daretti's and Welder's artifact recursion to abuse antiquated lock pieces such as Tangle Wires and Smokestacks in junction with the current Chalice/Trinisphere lock pieces. The idea is to make the deck more control oriented. It would even run Punishing Fire+Grove of the Burnwillows to deal with threats that has got through the lock (it also has synergy with Daretti's discard) and also a win condition under an active Ensnaring Bridge.

    -Green-MUD: Green-MUD is a green splash MUD Stompy variation that uses Sylvan Library to help the consistency of the deck. It also uses Gaea's Cradle and higher creature count to produce a lot of mana on top of artifact mana sources. Some versions also use Summoning Trap as another means to cheat robots onto the field and as means to battle permission.
    IX. Sideboard
    In a format as diverse as Legacy, it is impossible to gear your maindeck against every deck in the format. Sideboards are needed to help against bad matchups. Here is a list of typical cards used in MUD sideboards:

    -Tormod’s Crypt/Relic of Progenitus: general graveyard hate against graveyard-based strategies. Tormod’s Crypt is generally more utilized because it does not get hindered by a Chalice at one (a typical play for Stompy builds) and it does not exile your own graveyard (for Welder builds).

    -Grafdigger’s Cage: not only it is a great graveyard hate, it also stops a lot of cheat into play effects. Unfortunately it does not play well with Stompy (Chalice at one) and Welder builds (it disables both Welders and Forgemasters).

    -Ratchet Bomb/Powder Keg: these are generally used against decks that utilize token strategies or permanents that have a low mana curve.

    -Defense Grid: usually used against permission-based control decks by Stompy builds. Although with the printing of Cavern of Souls, having these on the sideboard isn't much needed.

    -Cursed Totem: usually used against utility creature-based decks by Stompy builds.

    -Phyrexian Revoker: they are great against decks that use anything from permanent-based utility to combo pieces. Although a lot of Stompy variants actually run them on their maindeck.

    -Thorn of Amethyst: another Sphere effect against non-creature based combo and control decks.

    -Witchbane Orb: it helps against spells that can/requires to target you.

    -Silent Arbiter: creature that can hold back swarm aggro.
    X. Additional Information

    1. Basic Piloting Skill - In order to correctly pilot the deck, you need to know/master the following:

    -Mulligan: Depending on the list, MUD decks usually run little to no hand manipulation. As such, knowing on when to mulligan your hand is key in beating your opponent. Knowing the value of your cards based in certain situation will help you beat your opponent.

    -Sequence: A lot of MUD lists can actually be punishing if you sequenced your spells wrong. Like combo decks, you have to learn which pieces to play first and which ones to bait to permission or removal. Knowing on whether a threat or a lock piece should be played first depending on the what you and your opponent has on the board will help you create advantageous board position.
    2. Tournament Reports and Articles:

    1st at Mythic Games by Zirath

    16th at SCG Nashville by Andrew Wright

    Metalworker by Drew Levin


    SPECIAL THANKS TO ZIRATH, BRUIZAR AND BOBSMAN FOR CONTRIBUTING
    Last edited by (nameless one); 06-08-2015 at 10:14 AM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  2. #2
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    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    XI. Other References:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jakobian
    Hello, I was curious if you could post either my list, or at least an updated 12-post list to the primer at the start of the MUD thread? I have gotten the following tournament results with it:

    29th out of 266 at an SCG Open
    13th out of 138 at an SCG premier IQ
    6th out of 42 at a local game store event
    1st out of 57 at GP Phoenix side event
    2nd out of 46 at GP Phoenix side event
    4th out of 67 at a local game store event
    2nd out of 26 at an LGS event
    4th out of 47 at an LGS event

    These are all pretty much with the same list (below)

    4 wasteland
    4 cloudpost
    4 glimmerpost
    4 vesuva
    4 city of traitors
    4 ancient tomb

    4 metalworker
    4 kuldotha forgemaster
    4 Lodestone Golem
    3 wurmcoil engine
    1 sundering titan
    1 platinum angel
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon

    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Trinisphere
    4 grim monolith
    2 Lightning greaves
    1 spine of ish sah
    2 staff of domination


    Sideboard:
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Batterskull
    1 Ratchet bomb
    1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
    1 Sundering Titan
    2 Karn Liberated
    1 Spine of Ish Sah
    1 Steel Hellkite
    1 Witchbane Orb
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    Last edited by (nameless one); 04-15-2015 at 02:01 PM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  3. #3
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    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    These are my outdated lists (For reference only)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    4x Wasteland
    2x Ghost Quarter
    2x Great Furnace
    2x Mountain

    4x Goblin Welder
    4x Lodestone Golem
    4x Metalworker
    3x Kuldotha Forgemaster
    3x Wurmcoil Engine
    2x Phyrexian Metamorph
    1x Sundering Titan

    4x Grim Monolith
    4x Lotus Petal
    3x Sensei's Divining Top
    2x Lightning Greaves
    2x Mox Opal
    1x Spine of Ish Sah

    3x Faithless Looting

    3x "slots"

    Mana Base:

    Ancient Tomb + City of Traitors = They're needed to easily cast all the expensive robots the deck utilizes as early as possible.

    Wasteland = Utility land that gets rid of your opponent's utility land. It also helps mana screw your opponent. The colorless mana shouldn't be an issue with this deck.

    Mountain + Great Furnace = The deck somehow needs red mana to support both Goblin Welder and Faithless Looting. I used to run a 1-3 split but I wanted my red mana source to be as much Null Rod proof as possible without compromising the utility of having artifact lands. Also getting Sundering Titan on the field with the miser Mountain already on the field sucks when you need to flashback Faithless Looting in the near future.

    Ghost Quarter = As I have explained from my previous post, not only it supports Wasteland in getting rid of your opponent's utility land (from Maze of Ith to Tower of Magistrate to name a few problem ones), it can also act as a pseudo-Fetchland to get that Mountain (which also has that nice synergy with Sensei's Divining Top if you really need to shuffle your library)

    Mox Opal + Lotus Petal = Another means of red mana source. Also, Lotus Petal can help enable some powerful turn one plays (such as a turn one Lodestone Golem or having shenanigans with Goblin Welder + Faithless Looting right away). Lotus Petal used to be Mox Diamond but throughout my testing, Mox Diamond wasn't really helping the deck when it comes to powerful early turn plays as you need lands along with it. In a deck that runs minimal lands, it is rare to get Mox Diamond going as you want it to. It actually becomes a Mox Opal with a drawback (in this deck, Mox Opal's drawback in rarely an issue). Also, with an active Goblin Welder on the field, you can play tricks with your artifacts because of Lotus Petal being in the graveyard. Goblin Welder essentially gains "tap, sacrifice an artifact: add any color of mana to your mana pool" whereas you'd need to discard a land if you want to Weld in a Mox Diamond back onto the field.

    Grim Monolith = Mana artifact that helps you cast mana entensive robots with ease. I used to run Grim Monolith with Voltaic Key but throughout my testing, Key has been dead for the most part when you don't have Grim Monolith. Instead, Goblin Welder plays the roll of Voltaic Key (in junction with Lotus Petal being in the graveyard).

    Metalworker = There's a reason why sometimes, this deck is called Metalworker. An unmolested Metalworker can win you games. There's a reason why this card used to be banned.

    Robots:

    Lodestone Golem = I notice a lot of you have been cutting this robot to three. I think it is wrong as it can set an opponent a turn behind. This robot can be devastating to your opponents if you can get it on the field on turn one (which is not impossible with this deck)

    Kuldotha Forgemaster = I have actually cut this to three because the deck can still function without it's aid. While it helps Forging in a Sundering Titan, I find that for the most part I would only activate it if I really need to (such as turning late game Grim Monoliths and Metalworkers into Wurmcoil Engines). Also, I find that the current list has a better means of card selection.

    Wurmcoil Engine = I also have cut this to three but because of space issue. It's actually not an issue of searching for it as I find that my current list has a better means of card selection. You might argue why I run a 4-3 Split between Lodestone Golem and Wurmcoil Engine. The reason why I do this is because its easier to cast a Lodestone Golem if you cannot get a Metalworker or your Welder-tricks going. Also, you'd rarely Forge in Lodestone Golem over Wurmcoil Engine.

    Phyrexian Metamorph = I love this robot. It can be a Goblin Welder protection (copying Welder and have multiple Welder effects on the field to perform tricks), a Snapcaster for "comes into play" robots or just Lodestone Golem 5-6. Sometimes, the two life is worth for what utility it can do. Worse case scenario, its a Goyf wall against an opposing Goyf or a Legendary killer

    Sundering Titan = While the hardest robot to hardcast, once it enters the field, it can win you games. It is my favourite Forgemaster target so far.

    Spine of Ish Sah = While not really a robot, this acts as a targeted removal for problem permanents. Not a bad Forgemaster target.

    Lightning Greaves = It protects utility creatures and gives haste to beaters. I used to run three but having multiples of it sucks. A turn one Greaves followed by an unanswered turn two Metalworker can win you games 95% of the time.

    Sensei's Diving Top = Card selection and with this list, it actually works since I have multiple shuffle effects (from Ghost Quarter to Forgemaster). Faithless Looting also helps SDT if the top three cards that you have are actually bad, a luxury the deck didn't have before.

    Engine:

    Goblin Welder + Faithless Looting = With Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder can actually fall under Metalworker's class: a threat when it becomes active. Before Faithless Looting, Goblin Welder can only act as a means to protect your artifact. Now with Faithless Looting, you actually gain the luxury of using Welder as a means to cheat expensive artifacts onto the field. This actually relieves pressure from Metalworker. Faithless Looting also has that synergy with SDT as it "refreshes" the top three cards of your library for SDT. Goblin Welder also helps turning the deck into Null Rod proof (though the card can still get annoying if you can't get Welder going)

    Slots:

    I am currently running Tangle Wire on this slot. Throughout my testing, Tangle Wire has been acting as a Time Walk and with Welder tricks, you can actually create a softlock with it against your opponent. I am not going to say that this should be Tangle Wire as it is still a meta-choice. Sometimes, Trinisphere can be better on this slot if there's a lot of combo or tempo in your meta. If you want to get fancy, you can run more Forgemaster targets (though you'd need a fourth Forgemaster). You can even use utility in that spot using Staff of Domination or Crucible of Worlds. If you're really afraid of your pieces, you can use Spellskite on that spot. Personally, I am happy with Tangle Wire on that slot and it does what I want it to do.

    Sideboard:

    4 Chalice of the Void
    3 Thorn of Amethyst/Trinisphere
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Ratchet Bomb

    Chalice of the Void and Thorn of Amethyst/Trinisphere = The standard against most combo decks. Usually I would side in the Welder package (Welder+Faithless Looting and sometimes SDT) for this package (along with another appropriate hate card from the side board). I find that against Ritual/Storm-based combo decks, the Welder package doesn't really help and the most ideal way to play the deck would be use your early turns for Sphere effects then hardcasting your robot beaters once you've established that lock (going Stompy mode)

    Tormod's Crypt = Of all the gravehate, I find this to be the most suiting without actually hindering the deck's game plan.

    Phyrexian Revoker = This comes in against ritual based combo to utility permanents. It can stop anything from Lion's Eye Diamond to Qasali Pridemage.

    Ratchet Bomb = Believe it or not, if the deck is on Welder mode, CotV at one can actually get annoying. Ratchet Bomb makes sure that CotV at one doesn't hinder you (I've had this against Aggro-Loam and Stompy decks). Also, Ratchet Bomb is very effective against decks that utilizes tokens and decks that use permanents that have a low mana curve
    Change log (Sideboard will be ever changing and will rarely be included):

    June 8, 2012: Tangle Wire as the "slot", -2 Ghost Quarter, -1 Spine of Ish Sah, +3 Cavern of Souls, +1 Steel Hellkite (Going to 61 cards on the main)

    While I liked the utility Ghost Quarter gives, I can't ignore the fact that a resolved threat that is hard to deal with will win you games, hence why I replaced it with Cavern of Souls. I switch Steel Hellkite as not only it provides an evasion robot for beats, it also nukes your opponent's board.

    -----------------------------
    The page 68 list (aka the stax hybrid list - the outdated version)

    Last edited by (nameless one); 04-15-2015 at 02:00 PM.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  4. #4

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Good job. You covered nearly all of the MUD cards in your opening post. There are a few more creatures that deal with other creatures. Obviously, most of the creatures in MUD (Wurmcoil especially), already put other creatures to shame. However, of the creatures I'm listing here, I found RMM to be really bad ass.

    Masticores
    For all Masticores, Goblin Welder, Scarecrone and Crucible of Worlds turn the discard into an advantage.

    Masticore - The original gangster. Regenerates and is able to shoot down a lot of small creatures in 1 turn. This means that Masticore can convert the discarded card into more than just 1 creature removal effect. Good if you want to chain gun swarms of chumpers, also just 4 mana. If you still have some artifacts in your hand, you can realy chaingun the board into oblivion with Metalworker. Usually too mana intensive and 4/4 just isn't that big anymore.

    Razormane Masticore - 5/5 First Strike is big, especially if you already dealt 3 damage to their Goyf or Knight first. Allows you to kill off Noble Hierarchs, Aven Mindcensors, Delvers and Cliques with no mana investment. You can shoot Stoneforge Mystic and Firststrike the Batterskull or Sword/Jitte-bearing creature. The longer the game drags out, the more it swings in your favor. Essentially turns an excess land, mox opal (or creature if you have welder) into a creature removal spell. I usually play with 2 RMM, 4 Lodestone and 4 Wurmcoil as my default-beat sticks. RMM has been awesome for me.

    Molten-Tail Masticore
    This thing I haven't actually tested, but MTM can shoot players for 4 too. It has bad synergy with Goblin Welder. I guess you could Forgemaster into a Molten-Tail Masticore, sacrificing artifact creatures after you attack, then use your mana to deal the final points of damage with Masticore to speed up the clock with 1 turn. It's a conditional Masticore, but its the only one that can actually hit players.

    Grim Poppet
    This card could be useful against tribal and other creature based decks, that require you to deal with swarms. There are so many x/1's in the game right now. This card gives you a body against creature decks the same way the old Vintage counterpart Triskelion did. The difference ofcourse, is that Grim Poppet becomes a 4/4 beatstick clearing the world from all the nasty x/1 utility creatures. Masticore probably does everything this does better, but that requires both mana and discards. The big question is, do you really need an answer to x/1's? Would be a sideboard card at most, and there are alternatives.

    Dead Vintage Relics
    Triskelavus
    Relic from Vintage, outclassed by bigger cards such as Myr Battlesphere and Blightsteel Colossus. However, this card still provides a way to deal with creatures while also fueling Kuldotha Forgemaster and Goblin Welder. Mana intensive.

    Triskelion
    Relic from Vintage. I think that Grim Poppet is more relevant due to the aggro plan of the deck and the fact that legacy is an aggro oriented format. You'd rather have a 4/4 than a 1/1 left after shooting. Against combo decks, Trike is a lot better, but I don't think Trike should be your plan against combo anyway.

    For completeness sake: Though not as successful as the builds above, there have also been black builds running The Abyss / Nether Void and RG builds with Sylvan Library / Ancient Grudge / Crop Rotation, and blue with Master Transmuter / Show and Tell.

    Already mentioned
    Duplicant
    Steel Hellkite
    Last edited by bruizar; 03-20-2012 at 08:25 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    Good primer, but I would have expected more analysis on some cards, instead of just stating the obvious, especially the Add-Ons section (Lightning Greaves, Thousans-Year Elixir, Crucible, ...)
    Some optimal numbers, some pros and cons, ...

    Also, Master of Etherium should be Master Transmuter.

  6. #6
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    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Good job. You covered nearly all of the MUD cards in your opening post. There are a few more creatures that deal with other creatures. Obviously, most of the creatures in MUD (Wurmcoil especially), already put other creatures to shame. However, of the creatures I'm listing here, I found RMM to be really bad ass.
    I was actually contemplating on posting additional information such as Toolbox targets and where they usually shine against, as well as color splashes. I guess I just or too tired (I had to sleep four hours ago since I have work this morning LOL).

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    Good primer, but I would have expected more analysis on some cards, instead of just stating the obvious, especially the Add-Ons section (Lightning Greaves, Thousans-Year Elixir, Crucible, ...)
    Some optimal numbers, some pros and cons, ...

    Also, Master of Etherium should be Master Transmuter.
    I just wanted to leave the 'add ons' as to what they're generally used on. I actually wanted their pros and cons to be discussed within the thread.

    And Master Transmuter has been fixed.

    Thanks for the feedback guys, it'll definitely keep getting updated within the week, including matchups on different strategies (instead of archetypes) to keep it short as well as the pros and cons of Stompy and Welder builds.

    PS. How should I define strategies in the format. Graveyard-based, Tempo, Blue-based control, Storm-based Combo, Aggro-Control, Sligh...?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  7. #7

    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    PS. How should I define strategies in the format. Graveyard-based, Tempo, Blue-based control, Storm-based Combo, Aggro-Control, Sligh...?
    I wouldn't throw them into overarching containers. Just explain for each card how it interacts with the various deck strategy or tactics from the deck to beat/established list. Most decks use the graveyard in some form, but dredge's aggressive use of the graveyard and its complete reliability on it can't be compared to decks with Snapcasters, Tarmogoyfs, Knight of the Reliquaries or Scavenging Ooze. Even dredge and reanimator are very different, due to the fact that reanimator has better tools to protect its graveyard-abuse.

    Side-note:
    If you're playing with Karn, Silver Golems and Steel Hellkite, I wonder if its worth it to play 1 Mycosynth Lattice, so that you can Kuldotha Forgemaster into it and keep destroying everything your opponent has. Steel Hellkite unfortunately doesn't nuke artifact lands, but it would fit the mass removal strategy well. There's already Sundering Titan which works without Karn, Silver Golem, but Karn ensures your opponent never gets to tap more than 1 mana again, which can be relevant against burn or high tide. Added tech of Mycosynth Lattice is that it locks both players out of the game with Null Rod, so the person with the biggest beat stick or most cards left in deck wins. Since you don't run fetch, your opponent will probably lose in that case.

  8. #8
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    Re: [PRIMER] MUD (Metalworker) [under construction]

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post

    PS. How should I define strategies in the format. Graveyard-based, Tempo, Blue-based control, Storm-based Combo, Aggro-Control, Sligh...?
    I would use specific decks.

    Storm Combo for instance is too broad(as well graveyard strategy which bruizar explained). I haven't played with MUD much so I may be wrong here, but aren't TES/ANT easier matchups while belcher and High Tide decks tougher matchups?

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)


  10. #10
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Honestly, I'm having troubles with MUD Stompy vs. Welder-MUD. Should I concentrate on Welder MUD or is it fine with you guys if I do this slowly?

    Personally, I think the two decks are different beasts. While MUD Stompy is more of aggro-control, Welder has a more comboesque feel to it.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    I'd say Welder-MUD, since it just made Top 16 at the invitational.

    Nice work on the thread. Happy to see some momentum building for the deck.

  12. #12

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    It's an awesome feeling seeing my exact list (-1 Hall of the Bandit Lord +1 Darksteel Citadel) coming in 11th. I'm a proud man.

    But ya, people keep asking me how to deal with Stony Silence and Null Rod. Well, I have found A solution. It might not be THE solution, but it's a good start:

    Culling Scales

  13. #13

  14. #14
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Ages View Post
    I'd say Welder-MUD, since it just made Top 16 at the invitational.

    Nice work on the thread. Happy to see some momentum building for the deck.
    Thanks. I'll focus on Welder-MUD though I'll still add pointers for the Stompy Builds. I think at the end of it all, its all meta-dependent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hix360 View Post
    It's an awesome feeling seeing my exact list (-1 Hall of the Bandit Lord +1 Darksteel Citadel) coming in 11th. I'm a proud man.

    But ya, people keep asking me how to deal with Stony Silence and Null Rod. Well, I have found A solution. It might not be THE solution, but it's a good start:

    Culling Scales
    I've tinkered with Scales before. It doesn't really help the Stompy Versions as its early pieces (Chalice of the Void and other Sphere effects) will get nuked by Culling Scales first. I think just running ample amounts of land should do the trick. Also, for Stompy Versions, resolving Karn Liberated is a good way to clean up Null Rod effects.

    As for Welder Versions, while you do lose the option of explosive mana from Metalworker and the ability to cheat robots with Forgemaster, you still have Welder + Faithless Looting/Gamble as a means to cheat robots into play. Personally, Null Rods are the reason why I run 2 Moutains and 2 Ghost Quarter in my land-base.

    I'm contemplating on running Crucible in the main again as having a Wasteland/Ghost Quarter + Crucible lock can be really devastating. Though I am enjoying Tangle Wire as a 'Time Walk' that backs up Lodestone Golems and Wurmcoil Engines.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwelts View Post
    here is my latest 75. works pretty well so far:

    -LIST-


    Couple of things,

    Why Mox Diamond? I never really like them since the deck runs so little land. Maybe I just have terrible luck with my hands be I find that they rarely help. I find having Dynamos to be helpful in the Stompy builds.

    Also, on the sideboard, is there a reason why you picked Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb? The only reason why I'd run Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb is if you run Tangle Wire with it. Outside of that, I think Powder Keg is the more superior choice as it can also hit other permanents outside of Artifacts and Creatures.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    Couple of things,

    Why Mox Diamond? I never really like them since the deck runs so little land. Maybe I just have terrible luck with my hands be I find that they rarely help. I find having Dynamos to be helpful in the Stompy builds.

    Also, on the sideboard, is there a reason why you picked Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb? The only reason why I'd run Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb is if you run Tangle Wire with it. Outside of that, I think Powder Keg is the more superior choice as it can also hit other permanents outside of Artifacts and Creatures.
    Regarding my choice of moxen over dynamos. I tried dynamos but ended up liking having earlier metalworkers over anything else. Mox diamond is just another way to t1 metalworker.

    for sideboard I chose keg over bomb because im using it for token destruction, and in that respect they do the same thing. bomb is better though so it SHOULD be bomb if enchantress gets really popular again.

  16. #16
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by kwelts View Post
    Regarding my choice of moxen over dynamos. I tried dynamos but ended up liking having earlier metalworkers over anything else. Mox diamond is just another way to t1 metalworker.

    for sideboard I chose keg over bomb because im using it for token destruction, and in that respect they do the same thing. bomb is better though so it SHOULD be bomb if enchantress gets really popular again.
    I did find Moxen to help enable early turn broken plays, even with Welder builds. Though I am running Lotus Petal over Diamonds.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  17. #17

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I did find Moxen to help enable early turn broken plays, even with Welder builds. Though I am running Lotus Petal over Diamonds.
    petals are very valid to use, just i like to have more than one use out of them and overall to me a diamond is better than an extra land because it cant get wastelanded.

  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by kwelts View Post
    petals are very valid to use, just i like to have more than one use out of them and overall to me a diamond is better than an extra land because it cant get wastelanded.
    I guess I just prefer Petals over Diamonds because I can do tricks with Welders.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by (nameless one) View Post
    I guess I just prefer Petals over Diamonds because I can do tricks with Welders.
    I too found myself moving towards petal with welder in the deck. Diamond is good if you are looking towards the late game, but building with welder, looting, etc really puts the focus of the deck on doing crazy things early, so petal is just what you need.

    What's really fun about the archetype is that there are so many tools, you can adjust the deck for the expected metagame.

    I haven't made the jump to welder/looting yet. Still working on a MUD Forgemaster list that really leans on Chalice at 1, which I believe is huge right now.

    @nameless - Can you talk a bit about the way you play the deck? In other words, in terms of control vs beatdown. Are we always the beatdown? Does this deck have the ability to switch back and forth throughout the match/game?

  20. #20
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    Re: [Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Ages View Post
    I too found myself moving towards petal with welder in the deck. Diamond is good if you are looking towards the late game, but building with welder, looting, etc really puts the focus of the deck on doing crazy things early, so petal is just what you need.

    What's really fun about the archetype is that there are so many tools, you can adjust the deck for the expected metagame.

    I haven't made the jump to welder/looting yet. Still working on a MUD Forgemaster list that really leans on Chalice at 1, which I believe is huge right now.

    @nameless - Can you talk a bit about the way you play the deck? In other words, in terms of control vs beatdown. Are we always the beatdown? Does this deck have the ability to switch back and forth throughout the match/game?

    When I pilot my version, outside the combo matchup, I usually go the beatdown. Usually, I try to resolve a threat and try to protect it with Welder/Greaves/Lodestone Golem or mana denial. The reason why I run Tangle Wire is because they open the field go you, especially if you can resolve a turn one Lodestone Golem or a turn 2-3 Wurmcoil Engine.

    Though it all depends on your opening hand. If you can't get an aggressive opening hand but have Tangle Wires, I'd usually ride that Tangle Wire until I draw into something relevant (even if I Time Walk myself, as long as it also happens to my opponent). Faithless Looting also help with bad opening hands. Sometimes I use it as a mini-Serum Powder.
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

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